Time for the truth 7

[Wordkeeper]

Paul does not teach such a thing.

The Good News is that the promise to Abraham that His Seed would be a blessing to the world through the gift of the Spirit is now fulfilled through Christ being hung on a tree:

Galatians 3:14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Paul says "But now we are delivered from the law" in Romans 7. Paul also tells us to throw out the law in Galatians 4. Those who wish to keep some of the law are trying to keep the parts of the woman they like. I could get real descriptive here, but hope folks will understand what I said. Paul did not say carve up the woman and toss what you do not want in the trash. Paul clearly says toss out the whole woman (law).

If your brother cleared your bank loan, would you keep writing to the bank that you acknowledged that the debt stood? That's what the Galatians were doing, by observing the works of the law, dishonoring the payment. Of course they were puzzled why they were undergoing strange trials, and misunderstood it to be judgment for abandoning works of the law, when in reality, it was God teaching them perseverance. It is in this context that Paul advises the Galations to throw out the Old Covenant of Law. It was CLEARED.


Galatians 3:1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.

 

[Elder 111]

Fiction.... no author of the New Testament ever testified that those not of Israel were bound to the Law.

Bound or unbound, they kept the "law".
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[listed]

The Good News is that the promise to Abraham that His Seed would be a blessing to the world through the gift of the Spirit is now fulfilled through Christ being hung on a tree:

Galatians 3:14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.




If your brother cleared your bank loan, would you keep writing to the bank that you acknowledged that the debt stood? That's what the Galatians were doing, by observing the works of the law, dishonoring the payment. Of course they were puzzled why they were undergoing strange trials, and misunderstood it to be judgment for abandoning works of the law, when in reality, it was God teaching them perseverance. It is in this context that Paul advises the Galations to throw out the Old Covenant of Law. It was CLEARED.


Galatians 3:1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.

Are you trying to confuse me by you posting being all over the field in this silly game? I think I am a much better player than that.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Bound or unbound, they kept the "law".
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Nope.... try again

 

[Wordkeeper]

Are you trying to confuse me by you posting being all over the field in this silly game? I think I am a much better player than that.

God’s word is like a fine watch, complex and well crafted, which is only to be expected, but to the beginners they may seem mysterious and puzzling. Christ said it would be too much to take in all at once and instructed the disciples to seek help:

John 16:12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

Luke 11:13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


Matthew7: 7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

So ask for the gifts:

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

Then you will be blessed with knowledge, which you can share with patience and gentleness:


1 Corinthians 13:2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Titus 3:2
to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

1 Peter 3:14But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED,15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

 

[Elder 111]

How does Paul regard the Ten Commandments? Why does he call us all Jews? Romans 2:
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (all shall be Judge by Jesus, and below shows us the ten commandments is the standard on which we will be judged)

17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; (the Ten Commandments are of God and are more excellent)

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, (Paul confirms that those who do not know God's holy law are in darkness)

20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. (the commandments are truth)

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? (Confirmation that the context is of the ten commandments)

24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? (The gentiles are seen as righteous, even more so thatn the Jew if he keeps the ten commandments)

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (The real child of God is he who keeps His holy righteous law)

 

[Wordkeeper]

Actually Paul was speaking to the Jewish members of the church in Rome, who were returning and quarreling with the Gentile members, after the emperor who banished them from Rome had died:

https://bible.org/article/introduction-book-romans

Quote
Also when Priscilla and Aquila came from Rome to Corinth, it was because of an edict from Claudius in AD 49-50 (cf. Acts 18:2-3), which would place their arrival before Peter moved from Jerusalem (e.g., he was in Jerusalem for the Jerusalem council in fall of AD 49; see also Guthrie, NTI, p. 394).

The Gentiles thought God had replaced Jews with Gentiles as his People, and were boasting.

 

[listed]

God’s word is like a fine watch, complex and well crafted, which is only to be expected, but to the beginners they may seem mysterious and puzzling. Christ said it would be too much to take in all at once and instructed the disciples to seek help:

John 16:12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

Luke 11:13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"


Matthew7: 7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

So ask for the gifts:

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

Then you will be blessed with knowledge, which you can share with patience and gentleness:


1 Corinthians 13:2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Titus 3:2
to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.

1 Peter 3:14But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED,15but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; 16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.

More less exactly what I expected. A simple yes or no would have been reasonable and less trouble. If I comment on what you have done here, it will only cause trouble. I detest the misuse of Scripture especially for personal gain.

I understand you really do have much more to say. I am no longer confused about you.

 

[VictorC]

I'm sorry but you aren't refuting the FACT Paul says they do NOT have the Law which pretty much destroys your argument that Gentiles must have it.

They did it. Fact!

What you're calling 'fact' is another unBiblical fable.
The Gentile nations never received the Mosaic covenant, nor did they 'keep' the Law God determined all disobedient to as a condition to extend His mercy to everyone willing to show faith in His redemption.

 

[VictorC]

Elder111: Try once again to respond to this, as Jesus shows us a lesson that confronts your opinions on this thread.
This was directly on the topic you introduced, after all.

You're focusing on the man and ignoring the woman. The man in your hypothetical situation is has a decision to render. He could:

1) locate another witness to the woman's action, and go through the process that would have her stoned to death.
2) wriggle his wedding ring in front of the woman's face and basically refuse her.
3) feed on the passion (aka lust) in his heart and decide two wives are better than one (sound familiar?) and follow through on his passion (aka lust).

Only one of these responses is in accordance to the Mosaic covenant Law you're promoting on this forum.

WWJD?

John 8
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”
13 The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”​

I only highlighted a couple of the Pharisees' statements for simplicity.
Two questions to consider:

• When Jesus didn't condone what the Law required, what attribute did He display which is absent in the Law?
• Why did the Pharisees, who promoted adherance to the Law, reject Jesus?

The questions are again extracted from the quote:

• When Jesus didn't condone what the Law required, what attribute did He display which is absent in the Law?
• Why did the Pharisees, who promoted adherance to the Law, reject Jesus?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Elder111: Try once again to respond to this, as Jesus shows us a lesson that confronts your opinions on this thread.
This was directly on the topic you introduced, after all.

The questions are again extracted from the quote:

• When Jesus didn't condone what the Law required, what attribute did He display which is absent in the Law?
• Why did the Pharisees, who promoted adherance to the Law, reject Jesus?

Good luck on this...... I've found that some of these law proponents don't answer posts that they don't have a cut and paste already on file for.

 

[listed]

What you're calling 'fact' is another unBiblical fable.
The Gentile nations never received the Mosaic covenant, nor did they 'keep' the Law God determined all disobedient to as a condition to extend His mercy to everyone willing to show faith in His redemption.

If the Gentiles had the law and practiced it why was the Sabbath such a big issue then as it is made to be by some today? It is obvious the pagan gentile world Paul speaks about in Rom 2 did not keep the Sabbath.

 

[listed]

Good luck on this...... I've found that some of these law proponents don't answer posts that they don't have a cut and paste already on file for.

lol hehe I think you are right.

 

[VictorC]

Good luck on this...... I've found that some of these law proponents don't answer posts that they don't have a cut and paste already on file for.

Thanks for wishing me luck. This is the fourth time I have posted this for Elder111.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Thanks for wishing me luck. This is the fourth time I have posted this for Elder111.

I've found that law proponents have no desire to consider the logic of the Bible itself when they study their doctrine what matters to them is doing what they are told (keep the commandments of their group).

 

[VictorC]

I've found that law proponents have no desire to consider the logic of the Bible itself when they study their doctrine what matters to them is doing what they are told (keep the commandments of their group).

It's called 'theology via red books' in this case, not sola Scriptura. That's the final determinant for many of their distinctive doctrines.

“There is hope for every remnant believer today who sometimes feels confused at all the differing views taken by different scholars and commentaries. We have an inspired commentary that was given for the purpose of settling the disagreements among the uninspired commentaries. What do you do when the scholars disagree? Do you have to become a better scholar than the best in order to settle the disagreement in your own mind? No, let me repeat. God has given to our church an inspired commentary to settle the disagreements among the uninspired commentaries. And we can still be thankful for that today”
The Pillars, p. 30

"It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy (Mrs. White’s writings) that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is that Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words." (from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1, G. A. Irwin, General Conference President)

"How advantaged the Seventh-day Adventist Church is to have a modern inspired interpreter of both the Old and New Testaments! Surely there is every logical reason to give the inspired interpretation top priority in arriving at our understanding of the world today." (Sabbath School Quarterly, April-June 1976, page 92, Lesson Author Gordon M. Hyde, Editor W. Richard Lesher)

"The Bible is an infallible guide but it needs to be infallibly interpreted, to avoid confusion and division. When will the people of God cease trusting in their own wisdom? When will they come to the place where they will cease to measure, construe, and interpret by their own reason what God says to them through His appointed channel? When we come to the place where we place no trust in man or in the wisdom of man, but unquestionably accept and act upon what God says through this gift, then will the spirit of prophecy as set before us in the Bible and confirmed among us and become in fact a counselor, guide and final court of appeal among God's people." (Adventist Review, June 3. 1971, page 6, The Source of Final Appeal, By Roderick S. Owen)​

Their 'final court of appeal' to determine doctrine isn't the Bible.

 

[Wordkeeper]

More less exactly what I expected. A simple yes or no would have been reasonable and less trouble. If I comment on what you have done here, it will only cause trouble. I detest the misuse of Scripture especially for personal gain.

I understand you really do have much more to say. I am no longer confused about you.

Ask for the Holy Spirit. It's the only way to avoid hearing the words, "Depart from me, I never knew you, you breakers of the law".

 

[Elder 111]

If the Gentiles had the law and practiced it why was the Sabbath such a big issue then as it is made to be by some today? It is obvious the pagan gentile world Paul speaks about in Rom 2 did not keep the Sabbath.

Where does it say in Romans 2 that the gentiles did not keep the Sabbath?

 

[Elder 111]

One can not reject the ten commandments just because it was given to the Jews. For Paul says. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2. The Ten commandments was give through them but not for them only. Some body had to receive it.

 

[Elder 111]

Who are under the law? Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Romans 3:19
According to Paul, all the world is under the law!