Time for the truth 7

[Elder 111]

You need to show where this contradiction exists. I know already that it doesn't.

Neither one of you comprehends the meaning of 'binding', which denotes bondage to the ownership of the covenant from Mount Sinai given only to the children of Israel. That is a major problem both you you show when tossing around a term you don't accept the standard meaning of.

And all one has to do is review Elder111's posts, and see that he contradicts the Law defining the origin and the limited jurisdiction of the Sabbath. When pertinent quotes from the Law are provided, Elder111 rejects them. He continually bears false witness. He doesn't believe the Law, let alone keep it. This isn't hard.

This is a oxymoron that is impossible to reconcile. You cannot belong to Jesus Christ and the Law concurrently. To say the Law is binding is to claim God's redemption doesn't exist.

Now look at the post times. Neither one of you considers the Sabbath holy, and neither one of you keep it holy. Neither one of you can show where God ever conveyed it to the Gentile nations. And yet, Ellen White wrote "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord". How can you claim salvation in light of this soteriology of works both of you fail to satisfy?

It isn't my posts causing your confusion. It is the junk Adventism replaced the Gospel with.

Look at that highlighted in green.
To claims that you should serve God alone, not take His name in vain, not make and worship graven images, to honour your parents, not lie , steal, bear false witness, not commit adultery or covet is to deny Christ who gave the same commands. You heard it Christians! To do the will of God is to deny Him. Explain how serving God alone denies Christ?
How can having a discussion with Christians on the Sabbath be unholy? Jesus was called the devil so should we expect less for those who promote the truth?
The question for us is, are we willing to accept it and walk in holy paths of righteousness?

 

[yesyoushould]

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
How come we as Christians can advocate that the ten commandments are not applicable to us yet when we look at the individual tenants of the law no one says that it is not for us to keep.
If we are not required to fulfill or do the things the Ten commandments call for then there should be no condemnation for something such as adultery. As simply as that. So that preachers that live with all the women they could in they congregations can not be condemned by God if the law does not apply.
The idea now is that some apply, some of the ten. But God wrote them with His own hand as one unit on two tablets. Where is it stated that they can be separated? As a matter of fact James says they can not be. James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
James Here quotes the Ten, didn't he? So what does he say. Break one of the ten is the same as breaking all of the ten. What God has put together let no man put asunder!

Of course the ten commandments are good. God is perfect. All of God, is as God. God is the Kingdom.

 

[yesyoushould]

Whoever claims that doing evil is good, is as Isaiah says, against God himself.

 

[mmksparbud]

Whoever claims that doing evil is good, is as Isaiah says, against God himself.

And what is the term for calling good evil??

However, if calling the commandments good, is evil, then I am in good company
(Rom 7:12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[yesyoushould]

And what is the term for calling good evil??

However, if calling the commandments good, is evil, then I am in good company
(Rom 7:12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Amen, the law is holy and just and good.

 

[VictorC]

Look at that highlighted in green.
To claims that you should serve God alone, not take His name in vain, not make and worship graven images, to honour your parents, not lie , steal, bear false witness, not commit adultery or covet is to deny Christ who gave the same commands. You heard it Christians! To do the will of God is to deny Him. Explain how serving God alone denies Christ?

Yes, you affirm that it is preferable to worship a created image, lie, and continue in an adulterous affair with the Law in denial of God's redemption - and then post verbage that condemns your own practice. Go back and look at the highlighted in green again! What I wrote reflects what the apostle Paul proclaimed in Romans 7:4, and it is those redeemed by God who produce fruit. Scripture shows a massive chasm between serving God and what you mistakenly call serving God via the old covenant.

How can having a discussion with Christians on the Sabbath be unholy? Jesus was called the devil so should we expect less for those who promote the truth?

It is simple - you violate the Sabbath to have a discussion with Christians. Did you think this would go unnoticed? That's the truth - not the nonsense your seared conscience produces.

The question for us is, are we willing to accept it and walk in holy paths of righteousness?

Your feeble works by the Law are your form of righteousness. And, you have seen this form of righteousness contrasted with the righteousness of God before, only to reject it.

Romans 10
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​

The above ties acceptance of the righteousness of God apart from the Law (Romans 3:21 and following) with salvation. It does not equate your misplaced zeal for God stemming from ignorance of His redemption with that salvation.

Neither one of you could answer my question regarding your contradiction with Ellen White's requisite for her form of salvation. It comes across as a failure too obvious to ignore.

 

[VictorC]

And what is the term for calling good evil??

However, if calling the commandments good, is evil, then I am in good company
(Rom 7:12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It is those adopting the Gospel who are the first to acknowledge the Holiness of the Law - and this same chapter explains why God delivered us (who know the Law, v.7:1) from the Law that kept the recipients in the past tense. Sound bite theology doesn't allow you to see past one pet verse to the narrative it appears in, does it? Isn't that why Adventism strips the Law of its Holiness in order to "keep" (and break) a truncated "sabbath" nowhere accepted by the Law? You're quoting a verse out of context, that you don't really believe in yourself.

 

[listed]

Look at that highlighted in green.
To claims that you should serve God alone, not take His name in vain, not make and worship graven images, to honour your parents, not lie , steal, bear false witness, not commit adultery or covet is to deny Christ who gave the same commands. You heard it Christians! To do the will of God is to deny Him. Explain how serving God alone denies Christ?
How can having a discussion with Christians on the Sabbath be unholy? Jesus was called the devil so should we expect less for those who promote the truth?
The question for us is, are we willing to accept it and walk in holy paths of righteousness?

First Christ did not give those commands according to John 1:17.

Your version of serving God does not include Jesus.

It is not the discussion being unholy. It is the conveyance.

Yes and those who live by faith are said to be pagan serving another god. Makes me wonder what god you really serve. All things considered I think it is the Sabbath.

 

[mmksparbud]

some things are just plain self-explanatory.

(Rom 7:22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

(Rom 7:24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[listed]

some things are just plain self-explanatory.

(Rom 7:22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

(Rom 7:24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

OK Paul is a silver double tongued lair and fraud. BULL!!!!

 

[mmksparbud]

OK Paul is a silver double tongued lair and fraud. BULL!!!!

Well--if that's what you want to believe--I just prefer to take him at his word.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Well--if that's what you want to believe--I just prefer to take him at his word.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe anyone who takes Paul seriously can believe the Law is binding upon Gentile believers. There is way too much of his writing that has to be pitted against himself and other authors of the Bible to come to such an erroneous conclusion.

 

[Elder 111]

Yes, you affirm that it is preferable to worship a created image, lie, and continue in an adulterous affair with the Law in denial of God's redemption - and then post verbage that condemns your own practice. Go back and look at the highlighted in green again! What I wrote reflects what the apostle Paul proclaimed in Romans 7:4, and it is those redeemed by God who produce fruit. Scripture shows a massive chasm between serving God and what you mistakenly call serving God via the old covenant.

It is simple - you violate the Sabbath to have a discussion with Christians. Did you think this would go unnoticed? That's the truth - not the nonsense your seared conscience produces.

Your feeble works by the Law are your form of righteousness. And, you have seen this form of righteousness contrasted with the righteousness of God before, only to reject it.

Romans 10
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​

The above ties acceptance of the righteousness of God apart from the Law (Romans 3:21 and following) with salvation. It does not equate your misplaced zeal for God stemming from ignorance of His redemption with that salvation.

Neither one of you could answer my question regarding your contradiction with Ellen White's requisite for her form of salvation. It comes across as a failure too obvious to ignore.

So it is your contention that I obtain righteousness but forgetting God's holy ten commandments?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Look at that highlighted in green.
To claims that you should serve God alone, not take His name in vain, not make and worship graven images, to honour your parents, not lie , steal, bear false witness, not commit adultery or covet is to deny Christ who gave the same commands. You heard it Christians! To do the will of God is to deny Him. Explain how serving God alone denies Christ?
How can having a discussion with Christians on the Sabbath be unholy? Jesus was called the devil so should we expect less for those who promote the truth?
The question for us is, are we willing to accept it and walk in holy paths of righteousness?
​

First Christ did not give those commands according to John 1:17.

Your version of serving God does not include Jesus.

It is not the discussion being unholy. It is the conveyance.

Yes and those who live by faith are said to be pagan serving another god. Makes me wonder what god you really serve. All things considered I think it is the Sabbath.

Oh yes it was Jesus who gave the Ten commandments. Who called Moses and was with Him all the way? Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
I Cor. 10:And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank ofthatspiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
John 8: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by mmksparbud

some things are just plain self-explanatory.

(Rom 7:22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

(Rom 7:24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
​

OK Paul is a silver double tongued lair and fraud. BULL!!!!

Because of the obvious rejection of the truth that will be only conclusion. The above is not an opinion but scripture.

 

[Elder 111]

I'm sorry but I just don't believe anyone who takes Paul seriously can believe the Law is binding upon Gentile believers. There is way too much of his writing that has to be pitted against himself and other authors of the Bible to come to such an erroneous conclusion.

It is the truth, rejected truth nor an error. Why would Paul advocate the rejection of the command to worship God alone?

 

[VictorC]

So it is your contention that I obtain righteousness but forgetting God's holy ten commandments?

That doesn't answer anything I posted.
It seems that this question I posed has been floated for years now, and neither you nor mmksparbud can ante up an answer to it:

Now look at the post times. Neither one of you considers the Sabbath holy, and neither one of you keep it holy. Neither one of you can show where God ever conveyed it to the Gentile nations. And yet, Ellen White wrote "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord". How can you claim salvation in light of this soteriology of works both of you fail to satisfy?

Both of you should furnish an answer to this.
One of you floated the idea that you aren't saved, and you need to substantiate Adventism as a valid religious paradigm. Otherwise, it doesn't deserve any acceptance from anyone.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It is the truth, rejected truth nor an error. Why would Paul advocate the rejection of the command to worship God alone?

Why would a Christian need to be commanded not to worship idols? From what I have seen all throughout the Bible that commandment is the most useless of them all because it is the one most disobeyed. One could equate your exalting the 10 commandments over Jesus own commandments as a form of idolatry as you aren't choosing to love your neighbor instead you choose to not murder.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I will say on and on in endless threads here Christians are being accused of idolatry, murder, adultery, and other sinful actions because instead of agreeing with keeping the 10 commandments for our standard of righteousness we obey Jesus and the Apostles when they tell us we will be ok to just plainly love our neighbor. How simple can loving your neighbor be that it has to be tossed under a screaming bus like a rotten sandwich and replaced by a piece of stone that says don't murder or commit adultery?

 

[listed]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Look at that highlighted in green.
To claims that you should serve God alone, not take His name in vain, not make and worship graven images, to honour your parents, not lie , steal, bear false witness, not commit adultery or covet is to deny Christ who gave the same commands. You heard it Christians! To do the will of God is to deny Him. Explain how serving God alone denies Christ?
How can having a discussion with Christians on the Sabbath be unholy? Jesus was called the devil so should we expect less for those who promote the truth?
The question for us is, are we willing to accept it and walk in holy paths of righteousness?
​

Oh yes it was Jesus who gave the Ten commandments. Who called Moses and was with Him all the way? Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
I Cor. 10:And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank ofthatspiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
John 8: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

You keep forgetting this 1 small detail -

And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.