Ticket to Hell...

[Nick01]

Psalms 16:9-10 MSG
I'm happy from the inside out, and from the outside in, I'm firmly formed. You canceled my ticket to hell— that's not my destination!

I need more faith, wisdom, knowledge, and insight. I need BELIEF. I want to believe that I am going home...and that God cancelled my ticket to hell. But I have doubt (kind of) ... I know I am not supposed to. I just feel like this verse is too good to be true.

So mainly I am looking for wisdom and insight, from God. I need PROOF that I am going home :


Proverbs 14:15
Only a simpleton believes everything he’s told! A prudent man understands the need for proof.

I need proof! Other than that, I am fairly happy. God speaks to me...and I love him. I just want to have a SOLID and STEADY faith, and like I said, I need belief. I'll keep praying for that, but I hope in the meantime some of you guys can give me feedback.

Thanks!

 

[Clare73]

Psalms 16:9-10 MSG
I'm happy from the inside out, and from the outside in, I'm firmly formed. You canceled my ticket to hell— that's not my destination!

I need more faith, wisdom, knowledge, and insight. I need BELIEF. I want to believe that I am going home...and that God cancelled my ticket to hell. But I have doubt (kind of) ... I know I am not supposed to. I just feel like this verse is too good to be true.

So mainly I am looking for wisdom and insight, from God. I need PROOF that I am going home :


Proverbs 14:15
Only a simpleton believes everything he’s told! A prudent man understands the need for proof.

I need proof! Other than that, I am fairly happy. God speaks to me...and I love him. I just want to have a SOLID and STEADY faith, and like I said, I need belief. I'll keep praying for that, but I hope in the meantime some of you guys can give me feedback.

Thanks!

That comes from the Holy Spirit in the word of God.

Get in it.

 

[Nick01]

That comes from the Holy Spirit in the word of God.

Get in it.

anymore insight?

 

[Nick01]

I am still looking for some more insight.

 

[Petros2015]

You canceled my ticket to hell— that's not my destination!

Good!
Now, when the train makes it's next stop, get off

I am still looking for some more insight.

and follow Christ to Heaven.
When the Devil laid the tracks, he did us a favor.
He laid them in both directions.

For me the proof is the fruit of the Spirit
Galatians 5: 22-23 love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control
When I sin, I lose these things
When I follow, I gain them
Run the experiment until you are convinced

Yesterday, I laughed with genuine joy
And I knew for the first time
Where it came from

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So mainly I am looking for wisdom and insight, from God. I

He is a small still voice for those who love and believe in Him without doubt.
Blessings

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Psalms 16:9-10 MSG
I'm happy from the inside out, and from the outside in, I'm firmly formed. You canceled my ticket to hell— that's not my destination!

I need more faith, wisdom, knowledge, and insight. I need BELIEF. I want to believe that I am going home...and that God cancelled my ticket to hell. But I have doubt (kind of) ... I know I am not supposed to. I just feel like this verse is too good to be true.

So mainly I am looking for wisdom and insight, from God. I need PROOF that I am going home :


Proverbs 14:15
Only a simpleton believes everything he’s told! A prudent man understands the need for proof.

I need proof! Other than that, I am fairly happy. God speaks to me...and I love him. I just want to have a SOLID and STEADY faith, and like I said, I need belief. I'll keep praying for that, but I hope in the meantime some of you guys can give me feedback.

Thanks!

Nick, the trick here with Christian Belief is to realize that there is no "proof"... and to get rid of Baptist style epistemic assumptions about the Bible. If you can do this and replace those assumptions with something more realistic, then you can work on belief and then faith.

 

[Clare73]

Nick, the trick here with Christian Belief is to realize that there is no "proof"... and to get rid of Baptist style epistemic assumptions about the Bible. If you can do this and replace those assumptions with something more realistic, then you can work on belief and then faith.

"Baptist" epistemic assumptions are that what is taught in the Bible is verified in other places of the Bible.
That's a good thing, no?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

"Baptist" epistemic assumptions are that what is taught in the Bible is verified in other places of the Bible.
That's a good thing, no?

That kind of exegesis gets a bit dicey at places, because the various authors of the bible don't necessarily perfectly line up with each other. And so, the whole notion that one has to interpret the Bible BY the Bible only goes so far. There are times when this interpretive principle doesn't account for as much as it needs to.

Ultimately, the great thing is that the Biblical writings don't have to be inerrant for Christianity to be true. They just has to be a reasonable representation of historical facts and prophetic in nature. Which they are ...

 

[Clare73]

That kind of exegesis gets a bit dicey at places, because the various authors of the bible don't necessarily perfectly line up with each other. And so, the whole notion that one has to interpret the Bible BY the Bible only goes so far. There are times when this interpretive principle doesn't account for as much as it needs to.

Ultimately, the great thing is that the Biblical writings don't have to be inerrant for Christianity to be true. They just has to be a reasonable representation of historical facts and prophetic in nature. Which they are ...

It seems to me the NT has to be inerrant in its doctrine.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It seems to me the NT has to be inerrant in its doctrine.

It really doesn't have to be that for it to be generally true on any practical scale.

The "slippery slope argument" that the Bible HAS to be inerrant or else we'd have no good reason to not be suspicious of the whole thing is a fallacy.

 

[Clare73]

It really doesn't have to be that for it to be generally true on any practical scale.

The "slippery slope argument" that the Bible HAS to be inerrant or else we'd have no good reason to not be suspicious of the whole thing is a fallacy.

Paul seems pretty clear to me that there is no negotiating salvation by faith only, apart from and never by merit,

and that to trust on merit is not to be saved (Gal 5:4).

Not to mention all the glorious doctrines of Christ and the church that could be misconstrued.

I'm thinking as does Paul, that correct doctrine is important (1 Tim 4:16, 1:10, 2 Th 4:3, Tit 1:9, 2:1).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Paul seems pretty clear to me that there is no negotiating salvation by faith only, apart from and never by merit,

and that to trust on merit is not to be saved (Gal 5:4).

You're importing an issue here that, for me, isn't even a part of the current focus or a concern.

Not to mention all the glorious doctrines of Christ and the church that could be misconstrued.

All kinds of misconstruals have happened and probably in just about EVERY denominaton imaginable. None of us has it all perfectly, and what's more, the Gospel wasn't intended to be handed on perfectly either. But you know what? It didn't have to be...

I'm thinking as does Paul, that correct doctrine is important (1 Tim 4:16, 1:10, 2 Th 4:3, Tit 1:9, 2:1).

Of course correct doctrine is important. But inerrancy isn't one of those doctrines and, furthermore, we don't find it mentioned explicitely, let alone comprehensively and extensively, in the Bible.

 

[Clare73]

You're importing an issue here that, for me, isn't even a part of the current focus or a concern.

All kinds of misconstruals have happened and probably in just about EVERY denominaton imaginable. None of us has it all perfectly, and what's more, the Gospel wasn't intended to be handed on perfectly either. But you know what? It didn't have to be...

So merit mixed in with faith is salvific?
And relying on your effort all your life to get you into glory is salvific?

Of course correct doctrine is important. But inerrancy isn't one of those doctrines and, furthermore, we don't find it mentioned explicitely, let alone comprehensively and extensively, in the Bible.

If Scripture is errant, how can any doctrine be four square with apostolic teaching?
What keeps us from turning the atonement into paganism?

Could this become a covenient tool for justifying one's false notions?

 

[Petros2015]

If Scripture is errant, how can any doctrine be four square with apostolic teaching?
What keeps us from turning the atonement into paganism?

A map doesn't have to be perfect to get you where you are going; when inerrancy became a stumbling block for me, at some point I had to ask myself, "well, is it good Enough?" and the answer was Yes. And from that point on, the more I followed, the better it got.

 

[Clare73]

A map doesn't have to be perfect to get you where you are going; when inerrancy became a stumbling block for me, at some point I had to ask myself, "well, is it good Enough?" and the answer was Yes. And from that point on, the more I followed, the better it got.

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think you can convince me the word of God is in error.

 

[St_Worm2]

So mainly I am looking for wisdom and insight, from God. I need PROOF that I am going home :

Hello Nick, there are at least a couple of places in the Bible that admonish us to make sure that we are, indeed, the Christians that we both claim and believe ourselves to be. Here is one of them .. 2 Corinthians 13:5.

It's also clear that the Lord wants His adopted children to have the assurance that we are safe and secure in Him .. e.g. John 10:27-28; Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 5:13; Jude 24-25. So what you are seeking to know is a very good thing

The first place that I would look is back at your life prior to becoming a believer and ask yourself, has anything changed in my life since the day I came to saving faith in Christ, and if so, what has changed?

Also, someone mentioned the following passage earlier, and they made a good point by doing do. So, does your life look more like Galatians 5:19-21, or does it look more like Galatians 5:22-23 (and/or is it at least moving in the direction of the latter passage)?

There's much more, but I need to run (I hope to be back later however, Dv).

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - there is this thought to consider as well.................

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So merit mixed in with faith is salvific?
And relying on your effort all your life to get you into glory is salvific?

Clare, I think you missed the part where I was addressing the OP and I was focusing on epistemic assumptions rather than who has the best exegesis of Paul's epistles.

If Scripture is errant, how can any doctrine be four square with apostolic teaching?

That's a funny thing to ask.

What keeps us from turning the atonement into paganism?

This, too, is a funny thing to ask. It's not really even a coherent question, I'm sorry to say.

Could this become a covenient tool for justifying one's false notions?

No, not really. The Bible is too contextually and historially complex for anyone to just twist all of it without being shown a fool. I think you know that.

 

[Clare73]

Clare, I think you missed the part where I was addressing the OP and I was focusing on epistemic assumptions rather than who has the best exegesis of Paul's epistles.

Am I mistaken in my prosecution of the principle you proposed that "the gospel wasn't intended to be handed on perfectly?"

That's a funny thing to ask.
This, too, is a funny thing to ask. It's not really even a coherent question, I'm sorry to say.
No, not really. The Bible is too contextually and historially complex for anyone to just twist all of it without being shown a fool. I think you know that.

Help me out here. I don't see why.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Am I mistaken in my prosecution of the principle you proposed that "the gospel wasn't intended to be handed on perfectly?"

Probably.

Help me out here. I don't see why.

You don't see why about what? That Southern Baptists don't have the last word on the Bible?