Thy Kingdom Come

[water_ripple]

Hi water_ripple,

Actually the deaths and the coming back to life of Lazurus or the boy or even the men of Matthew 27:52,53 are apparently not considered to be resurrections. That is shown by the fury shown by Paul as he talks to these guys here:

2 Tim 2
17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

So the resurrection could not have taken place prior to this or Paul would be incorrect to critical of these men.
This book was written in about 68AD, by Paul. Paul was the last apostle to brought in.

There are no examples of physical resurrection other than Jesus Himself being physically not present in the tomb...but remember Jesus is God, He was a spirit prior to becoming physical, none of us were.

Justme

I understand about Paul..Yes that would shake the faith of some..I know though that the resurrection had not taken place then..They were miracles yes, but they served another purpose as well. It just goes to show ya that resurrecting a dead body is not impossible for God.

As for the last part of physical resurrection..Do I think we will be exactly the same in body at the resurrection? No. The flesh that we have right now will die, but our spirit bodies will have some form to them...the God manifests Himself through the Spirit, Angels have been manifested, and demons also have manifested. A spirit still has some form of body..and also none of us would be alive in the first place without God first breathing us into life. All souls belong to God rather they realize it or not. They are His and His alone. So yeah we had to have spirit (soul) breathed into us before we can be born physically..That is even how Adam came about..before that he was dust. And yes there are examples of physical resurrection..Lazarus and Tabitha...Their spirits were already in the right place before they died...Seems to me that John is right..those who are in the first resurrection are blessed in that the second death has no power..The first resurrection is the spiritual resurrection while on earth..The second is judgement day..those with their names written in the book of life will not suffer the second death and be cast into the furnace, but live forever.

Something else..the moon still gives light..another thing that must pass away before the new heaven and earth come.

 

[Justme]

Hi water_ripple,

Here is where the cheeze binds.........

Where do you find scriptural proof that the living are resurresected? There are numerous verses that indicate there are more than one resurrection, but where are there verses that indicate there are two resurrections for an individual?

There are verses that show us there is a physical natural body, there are verses that show us there will be a spiritual eternal body, there are verses that tell us that the spiritual comes AFTER the natural. I doubt anyone can find a verse in the Holy Bible New Testament that even hints at a THIRD POSSIBILITY.

Where is there any biblical proof that the natural body becomes the spiritual body during natural physical life?

John 3 talks about being born again. Show me a verse that would make it impossible to mean that man is born a physical being , physically dies, and is BORN AGAIN a spiritual being.

Those two bodily forms are the only two available.

Justme

 

[water_ripple]

Hi water_ripple,

Here is where the cheeze binds.........

Where do you find scriptural proof that the living are resurresected? There are numerous verses that indicate there are more than one resurrection, but where are there verses that indicate there are two resurrections for an individual?

From a previous post of mine..Apparently there are 2 resurrections. There is a second death for some...

Revelations 20:1-15 AND I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fufilled: and after that he must be lossed a little season. (4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had recieved his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be lossed out of his prison. (8) And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. (10) And the devil that decieved them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tourmented day and night for ever and ever. (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which ere written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There are verses that show us there is a physical natural body, there are verses that show us there will be a spiritual eternal body, there are verses that tell us that the spiritual comes AFTER the natural. I doubt anyone can find a verse in the Holy Bible New Testament that even hints at a THIRD POSSIBILITY.

I never said there was a third possibility. In the NT we are made aware that all souls belong to God...Our souls are eternal...It only makes sense..Everlasting life..Everlasting hell..The only way we can achieve everlasting life is through Jesus Christ..If our souls reject Him we still have everlasting hell...In the OT we are made aware that when man is created he is created from the dust..It is only until God puts a soul inside does this man become a living soul (which is what God is..a Spirit..the Soul that all people originate from)...Genesis 2:7 And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.All of us are God's children and our souls belong to Him rather one recognizes that or not. The state of the soul is what God is concerned about..It will determine in what place we will be. Before God put the living soul inside man he was dust. The only possibility that is hinted at in the NT is that yes physical resurrection is also something that God is more than capable of and that the second death truly has no power over them.

Where is there any biblical proof that the natural body becomes the spiritual body during natural physical life?

I never made such a claim as this.

John 3 talks about being born again. Show me a verse that would make it impossible to mean that man is born a physical being , physically dies, and is BORN AGAIN a spiritual being.

Those two bodily forms are the only two available.

Everybody has a soul even while they are physically alive. We have a lifetime to recognize where our soul belongs...This does not mean that we can ever be equal to Christ..It teaches us that yes it is possible to have a form and a soul. People are souls at creation..we do not loose our soul...we determine where our soul lies...and physical resurrection is actually possible for those were miracles, and only something God is capable of doing. Does this mean we will be exactly the same form? Obviously not, but our souls will have some type of form to them for even spirits can become physically visisble. Over and over again manifestations of the Holy Spirit are seen by human beings. Nobody has seen the true form of God, but in some way the Spirit does have a form...When a person's soul is aligned with God (which is where it is meant to be) is a very powerful thing. When the soul follows Christ that soul will be transformed. The futility of earthly things will be realized, and lovingly the little soul will follow Christ wherever they may go..Much like a sheep following the shepard...When the soul does not follow Christ..the wolves will surely destroy them...Eventually this world as humans know it will cease to exist, and a new heaven and earth will take it's place. Heaven and earth will not be on two seperate planes of existance, but together as one. Scripture even speaks of the demise of the earth, and that yes that is part of God's plan. He will come for all of His people, and those that choose not to be His will not be His. They will have their chosen master with them for as long as God is master to His...People have one lifetime to decide where their soul will reside..and the second death and resurrection are not something I've just made up. That idea is God's.

 

[Justme]

Hi water_ripple,

Let's see if we understand what each other is calling:

The second death

Resurrection.

For me: Second death...every person of mankind dies. After that physical death, judgment is made known and eternal life can be Heaven or Hell. To not be chosen to go to Heaven is the second death.

Resurrection:

To be raised from the physically dead to the spiritual heavenly eternal existance in Heaven.No person who has not physically died can be resurrected.

That is how I see it . How about you?

Justme