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Featured Three hundred years from now where will you be? Heaven or a utopian earth?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by DennisTate, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. Heaven

    8 vote(s)
    44.4%
  2. A restored utopian earth.

    3 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. Both in heaven as well as on the restored utopian earth.

    7 vote(s)
    38.9%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Since I was a teenager back in the '70's I have believed in the saints being largely on a restored earth with the descendants of those who survive the Great Tribulation.

    Matthew 5
    Mat 5:5
    "Blessed are the meek,
    For they shall inherit the earth."

    Psa 37:11
    "But the meek shall inherit the earth,
    And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

    Revelation 5
    Rev 5:10
    "And have made us kings and priests to our God;
    And we shall reign on the earth.”

    Isaiah 11

    And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

    2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

    3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

    6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

    7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

    8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

    9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

    Now I admit that this subject is somewhat complex because it is clearly predicted that after Messiah Yeshua - Jesus reigns over the earth for one thousand years then...... even the Ancient of Days the Father comes down to the earth so in a sense..... earth becomes heaven..... I think?!
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  2. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    So as you can guess when I read the following I was really excited by this partly because this confirmed what I had believed for decades:

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/howard-storm.html#a04

     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Now this background will help you to understand why I was so impressed by an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate put forward by New Mexico biologist and coach Carl Cantrell because it fitted so well with Isaiah 35
    and.... this gave me something to talk about with young people who were interested in how to make this world a safer place.

    Isaiah 35

    The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

    2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing; the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon: they shall see the glory of Jehovah, the excellency of our God.

    3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

    4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come [with] vengeance, [with] the recompense of God; he will come and save you.

    5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

    6 Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

    7 And the glowing sand shall become a pool, and the thirsty ground springs of water: in the habitation of jackals, where they lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.


    Here is Carl's theory:
     
  4. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    Heaven is not a place, its a higher level of being.

    Like 3D is a higher level than 1D.

    If you are in 3D, you are also in 1D. If you are in heaven, you are also on the earth.

    Not sure what you mean by "the utopian earth".
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    That is an excellent reply because those people who report having a near death experience report being able to hear the people on earth who are praying for them.

    They can also view their loved ones and they are given Shalom / peace of mind regarding God's long term plans for their loved ones.

    For well over a decade I've felt that these accounts could well be the new tool for evangelism that gives Christians the open door to reach all people in all nations.... but many Christians look at this very differently.



    Basically what I mean by the utopian earth is the earth where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is ruling as King of all kings and King David has been resurrected from the dead and given a physical body so that he can teach his great, great, great ... grandchildren and keep them on the right track so that they take the principle of Tikkun Olam to all nations.

    In my opinion his grandchildren did something exceptionally impressive by sharing Solar Desalination Technology with Norway so that Norway could share that technology with several Islamic nations.

    Sahara Forest Project -
     
  6. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    I think this will never happen.
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I disagree..... I am of the opinion that the deserts of the world will soon be turned green and I suspect that mega-scale desalination technology will play a role in this happening. I don't know the exact timing of course but I was pretty sure that the Second Coming would happen well before three centuries from now which is why I chose that date for the poll.

    Christian Forums

    6 And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.

    Cheap Water from the World’s Largest Modern Seawater Desalination Plant

     
  8. KateforChrist

    KateforChrist Koalas are NOT bears

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    In God's presence. Plain and simple.
     
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  9. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe that David will be resurrected and rule or something like that.

    Technology changes the world, nothing against that. But I believe that to solve the problem of plastics is more important than deserts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Millennium is a Pharisee doctrine Jesus refuted in the gospels, saying the Kingdom is spiritual only. So I believe we could enter the New Heavens and earth any time within our lifetimes.
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    But... .were the Pharisees wrong about absolutely everything that they taught?

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    And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
     
  12. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    Can you name one thing that was specifically taught by Pharisees and was right?
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I think that the fact that Ezekiel uses the word "prince" to describe the role that King David has after he is resurrected has the potential to open a whole new line of discussion between Jews, Christians, Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles.

    Why is King David.... entitled merely a "prince" in the Era of Moshiach / Messiah predicted by Ezekiel?

    My theory is that he doesn't even want to begin to attempt to compete with his great, great, great grandson Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who is King of all kings and Lord of all lords!

    Ezekiel 34
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They didn't have the Holy Spirit so they could not understand scripture. And also had a veil over their eyes so the could not understand scripture. (Paul speaks of this). Also the Millennium doctrine was condemned as heresy in two early church councils.
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10840-millennium
    The Nicene Creed affirmed no millennium
    And Council of Ephesus 431 condemned millennialism
     
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  15. Dan1988

    Dan1988 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Sahara Forest Project will never be supported by those in power. Politicians in capitalist economies will never commit to any long term, expensive projects.

    The economy is the most important thing for all politicians in developed countries. So the chances of convincing them to commit to funding expensive long term projects is 0%.

    Governments are only interested in making a quick profit, while they're in power. They don't care about long term future investments.
     
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  16. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    Isaiah 8:20
    To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
     
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  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    I believe that they had the correct day of the week as the Sabbath... from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset... it is just that they did not understand the degree to which Situation Ethics can somewhat modify our Sabbath observance.

    Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....

     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But they did not understand the the Sabbath. They tried to kill Jesus thinking we was breaking it.
     
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  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    If we go by what has been happening over the last hundred years then you would probably be correct but I think that a pretty amazing shift is taking place as more and more people become more well informed regarding important aspects of the bigger picture.

    I actually quoted Carl Cantrell's alternative theory on stabilization of the climate in my 2008 campaign for Municipal Councillor here in Nova Scotia but I got into some aspects of Canadian and American history in three of my four campaigns that I felt was even more necessary information for the average voter to be aware of.

    My 2006, my 2008 and my 2004 campaign writings by DennisTate.
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    The wealthy leaders of the Scribes and Pharisees who felt that John the Baptist and Messiah Yeshua- Jesus were threatening their positions of wealth and power wanted to kill him.... but it is estimated that four hundred thousand followers of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may have been living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt and Rabbi Akiva.

    The crowd who called for him to be crucified was stacked by this influential group of people who were not truly a majority of the population then..... or now for that matter.


     
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