Three hundred years from now where will you be? Heaven or a utopian earth?

In the year 2319 where will you be?

  • Heaven

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • A restored utopian earth.

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • Both in heaven as well as on the restored utopian earth.

    Votes: 7 38.9%

  • Total voters
    18

DennisTate

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Since I was a teenager back in the '70's I have believed in the saints being largely on a restored earth with the descendants of those who survive the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 5
Mat 5:5
"Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth."

Psa 37:11
"But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

Revelation 5
Rev 5:10
"And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Isaiah 11

And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

Now I admit that this subject is somewhat complex because it is clearly predicted that after Messiah Yeshua - Jesus reigns over the earth for one thousand years then...... even the Ancient of Days the Father comes down to the earth so in a sense..... earth becomes heaven..... I think?!
 
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DennisTate

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So as you can guess when I read the following I was really excited by this partly because this confirmed what I had believed for decades:

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/howard-storm.html#a04

(Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death):

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.



The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.



People, in this best of all worlds, weren't interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.



In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn't have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.
 
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DennisTate

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Now this background will help you to understand why I was so impressed by an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate put forward by New Mexico biologist and coach Carl Cantrell because it fitted so well with Isaiah 35
and.... this gave me something to talk about with young people who were interested in how to make this world a safer place.

Isaiah 35

The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing; the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon: they shall see the glory of Jehovah, the excellency of our God.

3 Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come [with] vengeance, [with] the recompense of God; he will come and save you.

5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb shall sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the glowing sand shall become a pool, and the thirsty ground springs of water: in the habitation of jackals, where they lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.


Here is Carl's theory:
Global Warming II by Carl Cantrell

“So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breath, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere, carried away by running surface water such as rain fall, is carried away to other areas by our winds, and diffuses down into the soil towards the earth's crust. All of this warms our planet increasing its average temperature.”

“Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes. This is very critical because warmer and dryer winds dry out other land areas faster decreasing the vegetation on those land areas. Less humidity in the air also reflects less sun light back out into space so that more sun light strikes the earth and more heat is generated….”

“The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave….”

“So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive….”

“Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds…”

“This will do a number of things. First, it will increase the moisture in the desert soil so that it will develop water tables and water will begin to run in the streams. This water will increase the amount of vegetation in the area and decrease the amount of heat being generated by sun light cooling the watered area and all areas down wind of the watered area. As more available water evaporates, it will cool the air and reflect more sun light back out into space cooling the area even more. Cooler and more humid air will have less of a heating effect on areas down wind and will reflect more sun light back into space in those areas cooling areas we won't be watering yet. Cooler and more humid air will also have less of a warming effect on our seas and oceans.”

“Rain water running off of cooler soil will decrease the heating effect on our oceans and our planet crusts which will decrease catastrophic storm activities for other areas and seismic activity for the entire planet. Also, returning more ocean water to the surface and aquifers of our continents will lower the sea levels providing more usable land for us to farm and build on.”

“With cooler desert areas and increasing vegetation, less water will evaporate from our deserts increasing the amount of surface water even more and increasing the amount of vegetation and animal life by huge amounts because deserts currently take up more than 20% of our land surface. Populations will be able to spread out and there will be less competition for existing land areas.”

“This strategy has to be done in steps with the first step being to begin slowing the rate at which our global warming is increasing. We need to focus on that until we have brought it to a point to where the temperature is not increasing any more and is reasonably stable. While we are doing this, we need to come to a global consensus of just how cool we want to cool our planet down to. If we cool it down too much, we will begin to have devastatingly harsh winters in large populated areas and even cause an ice age to set in.”

“Then we begin cooling the planet down to a point which will be most beneficial for all countries or the planet as a whole. We need to gradually bring the temperature down because there may be a lag effect in which the planet will continue cooling after we stop increasing our efforts to cool it off more. We may even want to stop cooling the planet once or twice before we reach our targeted temperatures to see if there is a lag effect…”


“We need to start working on this as soon as possible because, if the planet reaches a point to where it is warming faster than our technology can possibly stop or reverse this warming trend, then our planet is lost and all life will cease to exist on this planet within a relatively short period of time. We will need to start with the largest and hottest deserts because cooling them will have the greatest benefit in the least time (Global Warming II by biologist Carl Cantrell).”
 
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solid_core

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Heaven is not a place, its a higher level of being.

Like 3D is a higher level than 1D.

If you are in 3D, you are also in 1D. If you are in heaven, you are also on the earth.

Not sure what you mean by "the utopian earth".
 
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DennisTate

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Heaven is not a place, its a higher level of being.

Like 3D is a higher level than 1D.

If you are in 3D, you are also in 1D. If you are in heaven, you are also on the earth.

Not sure what you mean by "the utopian earth".

That is an excellent reply because those people who report having a near death experience report being able to hear the people on earth who are praying for them.

They can also view their loved ones and they are given Shalom / peace of mind regarding God's long term plans for their loved ones.

For well over a decade I've felt that these accounts could well be the new tool for evangelism that gives Christians the open door to reach all people in all nations.... but many Christians look at this very differently.


Basically what I mean by the utopian earth is the earth where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is ruling as King of all kings and King David has been resurrected from the dead and given a physical body so that he can teach his great, great, great ... grandchildren and keep them on the right track so that they take the principle of Tikkun Olam to all nations.

In my opinion his grandchildren did something exceptionally impressive by sharing Solar Desalination Technology with Norway so that Norway could share that technology with several Islamic nations.

Sahara Forest Project -
 
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solid_core

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Basically what I mean by the utopian earth is the earth where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is ruling as King of all kings and King David has been resurrected from the dead and given a physical body so that he can teach his great, great, great ... grandchildren and keep them on the right track so that they take the principle of Tikkun Olam to all nations.

I think this will never happen.
 
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DennisTate

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I think this will never happen.

I disagree..... I am of the opinion that the deserts of the world will soon be turned green and I suspect that mega-scale desalination technology will play a role in this happening. I don't know the exact timing of course but I was pretty sure that the Second Coming would happen well before three centuries from now which is why I chose that date for the poll.

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6 And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.

Cheap Water from the World’s Largest Modern Seawater Desalination Plant

The new plant in Israel, called Sorek, was finished in late 2013 but is just now ramping up to its full capacity; it will produce 627,000 cubic meters of water daily, providing evidence that such large desalination facilities are practical. Indeed, desalinated seawater is now a mainstay of the Israeli water supply. Whereas in 2004 the country relied entirely on groundwater and rain, it now has four seawater desalination plants running; Sorek is the largest. Those plants account for 40 percent of Israel’s water supply. By 2016, when additional plants will be running, some 50 percent of the country’s water is expected to come from desalination.
 
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solid_core

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I disagree..... I am of the opinion that the deserts of the world will soon be turned green and I suspect that mega-scale desalination technology will play a role in this happening. I don't know the exact timing of course but I was pretty sure that the Second Coming would happen well before three centuries from now which is why I chose that date for the poll.

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6 And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do.

Cheap Water from the World’s Largest Modern Seawater Desalination Plant
I do not believe that David will be resurrected and rule or something like that.

Technology changes the world, nothing against that. But I believe that to solve the problem of plastics is more important than deserts.
 
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Dave L

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Since I was a teenager back in the '70's I have believed in the saints being largely on a restored earth with the descendants of those who survive the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 5
Mat 5:5
"Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth."

Psa 37:11
"But the meek shall inherit the earth,
And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."

Revelation 5
Rev 5:10
"And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”

Isaiah 11

And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots shall bear fruit.

2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

3 And his delight shall be in the fear of Jehovah; and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither decide after the hearing of his ears; 4 but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist, and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

Now I admit that this subject is somewhat complex because it is clearly predicted that after Messiah Yeshua - Jesus reigns over the earth for one thousand years then...... even the Ancient of Days the Father comes down to the earth so in a sense..... earth becomes heaven..... I think?!
The Millennium is a Pharisee doctrine Jesus refuted in the gospels, saying the Kingdom is spiritual only. So I believe we could enter the New Heavens and earth any time within our lifetimes.
 
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DennisTate

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The Millennium is a Pharisee doctrine Jesus refuted in the gospels, saying the Kingdom is spiritual only. So I believe we could enter the New Heavens and earth any time within our lifetimes.

But... .were the Pharisees wrong about absolutely everything that they taught?

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And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 
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DennisTate

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I do not believe that David will be resurrected and rule or something like that.

Technology changes the world, nothing against that. But I believe that to solve problem of plastics is more important than deserts.

I think that the fact that Ezekiel uses the word "prince" to describe the role that King David has after he is resurrected has the potential to open a whole new line of discussion between Jews, Christians, Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles.

Why is King David.... entitled merely a "prince" in the Era of Moshiach / Messiah predicted by Ezekiel?

My theory is that he doesn't even want to begin to attempt to compete with his great, great, great grandson Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who is King of all kings and Lord of all lords!

Ezekiel 34
 
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Dave L

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They didn't have the Holy Spirit so they could not understand scripture. And also had a veil over their eyes so the could not understand scripture. (Paul speaks of this). Also the Millennium doctrine was condemned as heresy in two early church councils.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10840-millennium
The Nicene Creed affirmed no millennium
And Council of Ephesus 431 condemned millennialism
 
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Dan1988

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That is an excellent reply because those people who report having a near death experience report being able to hear the people on earth who are praying for them.

They can also view their loved ones and they are given Shalom / peace of mind regarding God's long term plans for their loved ones.

For well over a decade I've felt that these accounts could well be the new tool for evangelism that gives Christians the open door to reach all people in all nations.... but many Christians look at this very differently.


Basically what I mean by the utopian earth is the earth where Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is ruling as King of all kings and King David has been resurrected from the dead and given a physical body so that he can teach his great, great, great ... grandchildren and keep them on the right track so that they take the principle of Tikkun Olam to all nations.

In my opinion his grandchildren did something exceptionally impressive by sharing Solar Desalination Technology with Norway so that Norway could share that technology with several Islamic nations.

Sahara Forest Project -
The Sahara Forest Project will never be supported by those in power. Politicians in capitalist economies will never commit to any long term, expensive projects.

The economy is the most important thing for all politicians in developed countries. So the chances of convincing them to commit to funding expensive long term projects is 0%.

Governments are only interested in making a quick profit, while they're in power. They don't care about long term future investments.
 
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Can you name one thing that was specifically taught by Pharisees and was right?

I believe that they had the correct day of the week as the Sabbath... from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset... it is just that they did not understand the degree to which Situation Ethics can somewhat modify our Sabbath observance.

Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....

I just want to say that I am truly sorry for all those years that I was close to believing in near total pacifism! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua once asked a question of the Scribes and Pharisees that should have made it obvious to me that an extreme situation can call for drastic action by a Christian or Jew who feels called into a life in the military or police!


Mark 3:4 "And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace."

I am almost certain that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was referring to the situation faced by the Machabees when Greco - Syrian armies were attacking Jewish communities on the Sabbath.

One community had refused to fight back....but the Machabees....in my opinion correctly judged that this is a violation of an admonition by King Solomon:


Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"


Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, 1 Machabees Chapter 2
...
"So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. [39] And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. [40] And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

[41] And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places."
 
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I believe that they had the correct day of the week as the Sabbath... from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset... it is just that they did not understand the degree to which Situation Ethics can somewhat modify our Sabbath observance.

Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....
But they did not understand the the Sabbath. They tried to kill Jesus thinking we was breaking it.
 
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The Sahara Forest Project will never be supported by those in power. Politicians in capitalist economies will never commit to any long term, expensive projects.

The economy is the most important thing for all politicians in developed countries. So the chances of convincing them to commit to funding expensive long term projects is 0%.

Governments are only interested in making a quick profit, while they're in power. They don't care about long term future investments.


If we go by what has been happening over the last hundred years then you would probably be correct but I think that a pretty amazing shift is taking place as more and more people become more well informed regarding important aspects of the bigger picture.

I actually quoted Carl Cantrell's alternative theory on stabilization of the climate in my 2008 campaign for Municipal Councillor here in Nova Scotia but I got into some aspects of Canadian and American history in three of my four campaigns that I felt was even more necessary information for the average voter to be aware of.

My 2006, my 2008 and my 2004 campaign writings by DennisTate.
 
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But they did not understand the the Sabbath. They tried to kill Jesus thinking we was breaking it.

The wealthy leaders of the Scribes and Pharisees who felt that John the Baptist and Messiah Yeshua- Jesus were threatening their positions of wealth and power wanted to kill him.... but it is estimated that four hundred thousand followers of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus may have been living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt and Rabbi Akiva.

The crowd who called for him to be crucified was stacked by this influential group of people who were not truly a majority of the population then..... or now for that matter.


The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to “abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood” (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called “Nazarenes” (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law” (Acts 21:20).

The Nazarenes’ acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochba’s armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish." (Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)
 
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