Three days and three nights in heart of earth?

[DennisTate]

The Jews were exempt from emperor worship because the Roman governor knew all of them would refuse. He was unwilling to kill every single one of them (which would’ve been the law) so they were not obligated to do it.

The Church was initially grandfathered in on that as Rome considered Christianity to be a branch of Judaism.

But later the Jewish authorities persuaded Rome that the Church is an utterly separate institution. The exemption was lifted, Christians refused to obey and the rest is persecution.

And somehow, apparently the Jews sincerely didn’t (and don’t) understand how so much the Church came to despise them. They seem to believe they’re somehow the victims in all this.

Wow!!!!

Now this is a detail that I did not fully understand at all, thank you immensely for this!

Wow!!!

May I quote you on this in full perhaps in the Messianic Jewish forum or even in other forums once I have some time to digest this?

 

[Der Alte]

All four gospels agree that Jesus was Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation. Then as now the Greek word for the day we call Friday is paraskeue, which does mean preparation.
The first day of unleavened bread is never called a Sabbath in the OT. It is called עצרת/atzereth, solemn assembly. It is similar to a sabbath but differs in one way, the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted.

Exo 12:15-16
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; howbeit the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses; for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be to you a holy convocation, and in the seventh day a holy convocation; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you.
LXX Exo 12:16 And the first day shall be called holy, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work on them, only as many things as will necessarily be done by every soul, this only shall be done by you. ​

That being true, neither 1st nor 7th ULB requires a preparation day as does the weekly Sabbath. There was only one preparation day and one Sabbath in passion week.

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology Chap. LXVII
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
...
Jewish Encyclopedia - DAY
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar). "The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).E. G. H. M. F.
Jewish Encyclopedia online​

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Exactly... the First Day of Unleavened Bread being from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset should mean Messiah Yeshua - Jesus being resurrected in the late afternoon on Saturday so He is already risen... at the time that Mary and the others go to the tomb on the morning of the First Day of the week, Sunday morning.

The question would be was He resurrected seventy two hours from the time His spirit left his body or.....
seventy two hours from the time his body is placed in the tomb.

I am thinking from the time that His spirit leaves his body would begin when he is in the heart of the earth.

Three Days and Three Nights | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

The proponents of a Wednesday crucifixion use a devious argument to explain away the words of Cleopas on the road to Emmaus. They contend that he was not counting the three days from the time of Christ's death, but rather from the sealing of the tomb by the Roman authorities the day after he was crucified. For this theoretical conjecture there is not a fragment of evidence in the Bible. Cleopas did speak about the trial of Jesus and certain events leading up to His crucifixion. By taking a bit of exegetical license one could possibly reach back to those events from which to reckon the third day. But by no stretch of the imagination could any point beyond the death of Christ be used in computing the three days.

In every related text the third day is counted from the time of His death on the cross.

Matthew said He would "be killed, and be raised again the third day.” Matthew 16:21. Mark wrote that He must "be killed, and after three days rise again.” Mark 8:31. Luke's account reports that He must "be slain, and be raised the third day.” Luke 9:22.

Repeatedly, the Scriptures emphasize the death of Jesus as the starting point of the three days. To begin counting a full day after the crucifixion is not only unbiblical but grossly imaginary. The sealing of the tomb is never once referred to in connection with the period of time He was dead.

The expression "three days and three nights” does not indicate a precise computation of hours, minutes, seconds. We read that "forty days and forty nights” were spent by Christ in the wilderness of temptation. However, the writers of two of the gospels state it simply as a period of "forty days,” showing that inspiration was not pinpointing the hours or minutes.

 

[Gup20]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

OH yes there is

 

[Der Alte]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

I needed a laugh on this Friday the 13th. This cracked me up.

 

[Gup20]

OH yes there is

What!!? But what about Mary, Joseph, and the wisemen? I've literally seen live camels in nativity scenes ... and have celebrated John 3:16 which says Jesus was born on Christmas day my whole life. Next you are going to tell me that the Easter Bunny didn't even raise Jesus from the dead!

You're all pagan devil worshipers who ruin everything for everyone!

 

[Der Alte]

What!!? But what about Mary, Joseph, and the wisemen? I've literally seen live camels in nativity scenes ... and have celebrated John 3:16 which says Jesus was born on Christmas day my whole life. Next you are going to tell me that the Easter Bunny didn't even raise Jesus from the dead!
You're all pagan devil worshipers who ruin everything for everyone!

Now stop that! I just snorted coffee through my nose.

 

[DennisTate]

Three Days and Three Nights | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts

The proponents of a Wednesday crucifixion use a devious argument to explain away the words of Cleopas on the road to Emmaus. They contend that he was not counting the three days from the time of Christ's death, but rather from the sealing of the tomb by the Roman authorities the day after he was crucified. For this theoretical conjecture there is not a fragment of evidence in the Bible. Cleopas did speak about the trial of Jesus and certain events leading up to His crucifixion. By taking a bit of exegetical license one could possibly reach back to those events from which to reckon the third day. But by no stretch of the imagination could any point beyond the death of Christ be used in computing the three days.

In every related text the third day is counted from the time of His death on the cross.

Matthew said He would "be killed, and be raised again the third day.” Matthew 16:21. Mark wrote that He must "be killed, and after three days rise again.” Mark 8:31. Luke's account reports that He must "be slain, and be raised the third day.” Luke 9:22.

Repeatedly, the Scriptures emphasize the death of Jesus as the starting point of the three days. To begin counting a full day after the crucifixion is not only unbiblical but grossly imaginary. The sealing of the tomb is never once referred to in connection with the period of time He was dead.

The expression "three days and three nights” does not indicate a precise computation of hours, minutes, seconds. We read that "forty days and forty nights” were spent by Christ in the wilderness of temptation. However, the writers of two of the gospels state it simply as a period of "forty days,” showing that inspiration was not pinpointing the hours or minutes.

At this time you sincerely think that this is a devious trick of words due to this conflicting with what you were taught by your denomination that you love..... and I have been there and done that but .... the time is coming when most of us will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is simply NOT into denominations like we are.

 

[DennisTate]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

All of this may help us to have a deeper appreciation for what is going on in this video that I think may turn out to be far, far, far more important than we tend to imagine at first:

 

[DennisTate]

All four gospels agree that Jesus was Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation. Then as now the Greek word for the day we call Friday is paraskeue, which does mean preparation.
The first day of unleavened bread is never called a Sabbath in the OT. It is called עצרת/atzereth, solemn assembly. It is similar to a sabbath but differs in one way, the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted.

Exo 12:15-16
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; howbeit the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses; for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be to you a holy convocation, and in the seventh day a holy convocation; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you.
LXX Exo 12:16 And the first day shall be called holy, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work on them, only as many things as will necessarily be done by every soul, this only shall be done by you. ​

That being true, neither 1st nor 7th ULB requires a preparation day as does the weekly Sabbath. There was only one preparation day and one Sabbath in passion week.

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology Chap. LXVII
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
...
Jewish Encyclopedia - DAY
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar). "The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).E. G. H. M. F.
Jewish Encyclopedia online​

But if there are two Sabbath in one week.... .One of Thursday and on on Saturday.... .there could be TWO days of preparation that week. Jews get prepared both for High Sabbaths that fall during the regular week days but they also prepare on every Friday for the weekly Sabbath.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Wow!!!!

Now this is a detail that I did not fully understand at all, thank you immensely for this!

Wow!!!

May I quote you on this in full perhaps in the Messianic Jewish forum or even in other forums once I have some time to digest this?

Go right ahead.

Just be ready for somebody to call you a nazi or something.

 

[Gup20]

A Matter of Days?

John 19:31
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

This is not to be confused with the “High Sabbath” in John 19:31, which is a Sabbath that falls during the Passover week or other Jewish festivals. Jesus died the day before the Sabbath, i.e. the Preparation Day (Mark 15:42), and was placed in the tomb on the Preparation Day (John 19:14, 42).

This Preparation Day happened to be the first day of Passover as well. Therefore, a more plain reading of the texts suggests that Jesus was indeed crucified on the day before the Sabbath, i.e. Friday. We think this is as plain an indication as we can get that the traditional timescale is, in fact, the biblical timescale, seeing that the English word/equivalent Friday could not be used. However, there should be no disagreement that Jesus rose on the first day of the week, i.e. Sunday (Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1).

Some have suggested alternative timings that “allow” Jesus to have died on the Wednesday or Thursday rather than the Friday. Holders of such a position have sometimes criticized the Friday–Sunday position as following a “tradition” of men rather than Scripture, since the Scripture does not explicitly say that Jesus died on a “Friday.”

However, to have Jesus dying on a Wednesday requires the postulation of an extra Sabbath day on the Thursday, though nothing is mentioned in the Gospels. There is nothing in the text that leads us necessarily to suspect that the Sabbath was anything other than the regular Day Seven Sabbath. We want to emphasize that this is not, to us, a major point of doctrinal concern. The “Special Sabbath” analysis is certainly a valid analysis, maintained by people whose commitment to the authority of Scripture is sound. We would want to maintain that our own timescale is scripturally sound—and we believe it is to be preferred, as it does not require assumptions extra to the text.

 

[Der Alte]

But if there are two Sabbath in one week.... .One of Thursday and on on Saturday.... .there could be TWO days of preparation that week. Jews get prepared both for High Sabbaths that fall during the regular week days but they also prepare on every Friday for the weekly Sabbath.

There might be 2 sabbaths in one week in conjunction with some other feast/festival day but there cannot be 2 Sabbaths in passion week because the feast of unleavened bread is specifically mentioned and ULB does not have a sabbath only a מקרא/miqrah, holy convocation. And since the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted, ULB does not have a preparation day as does the Sabbath. My view is that Sabbath was a high Sabbath because 1st ULB fell on the weekly Sabbath.

 

[DennisTate]

There might be 2 sabbaths in one week in conjunction with some other feast/festival day but there cannot be 2 Sabbaths in passion week because the feast of unleavened bread is specifically mentioned and ULB does not have a sabbath only a מקרא/miqrah, holy convocation. And since the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted, ULB does not have a preparation day as does the Sabbath. My view is that Sabbath was a high Sabbath because 1st ULB fell on the weekly Sabbath.

I've been doing a less than great job of attempting to keep both the weekly as well as the annual Jewish Sabbaths for over forty years and I would always try to get prepared both for the weekly as well as for the annual Sabbaths as they would get closer.

A preparation day for a Sabbath is not a Sabbath..... it just means the day before the Sabbath where we have to wrap up worldly work well before sunset.

As that particular Sabbath drew near Joseph of Arimathea was working to get the body of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus into his tomb well before sunset. I believe late Wednesday afternoon..... that is my opinion even after all these years.

I do try to learn from the errors that my old church the Worldwide Church of God made, (for example being too proud and competitive as a denomination), but.... I still think that they had the three days and three nights / Wednesday crucifixion and burial and Sabbath late afternoon resurrection correct.

 

[DennisTate]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

This is not the first time that I ran into an explanation on what was happening during those three days and three nights that has me thinking that this is more important than we tend to imagine at first.

After the thirty six minute mark in this sermon is a very similar explanation:

Rabbi Alon Anava was a Skeptical Atheistic Jew at the time of his first near death experience and what he reports sure sounds like being SHREDDED...by Lucifer. If Alon Anava had known Messiah Yeshua - Jesus he would NOT have had to go through that terrifying experience that seemed like millions of years even though it was in seven minutes earth time!

Orthodox Rabbi does most powerful sermon on thankfulness.

 

[Gup20]

There might be 2 sabbaths in one week in conjunction with some other feast/festival day but there cannot be 2 Sabbaths in passion week because the feast of unleavened bread is specifically mentioned and ULB does not have a sabbath only a מקרא/miqrah, holy convocation. And since the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted, ULB does not have a preparation day as does the Sabbath. My view is that Sabbath was a high Sabbath because 1st ULB fell on the weekly Sabbath.

The article I quoted (A matter of days) says it this way:

Some have suggested alternative timings that “allow” Jesus to have died on the Wednesday or Thursday rather than the Friday. Holders of such a position have sometimes criticized the Friday–Sunday position as following a “tradition” of men rather than Scripture, since the Scripture does not explicitly say that Jesus died on a “Friday.”

However, to have Jesus dying on a Wednesday requires the postulation of an extra Sabbath day on the Thursday, though nothing is mentioned in the Gospels. There is nothing in the text that leads us necessarily to suspect that the Sabbath was anything other than the regular Day Seven Sabbath. We want to emphasize that this is not, to us, a major point of doctrinal concern. The “Special Sabbath” analysis is certainly a valid analysis, maintained by people whose commitment to the authority of Scripture is sound. We would want to maintain that our own timescale is scripturally sound—and we believe it is to be preferred, as it does not require assumptions extra to the text.​

I agree with this analysis. I think that in this particular case, there is more than one way to meet all of the Biblical criteria, and as long as your goal is to preserve Biblical inerrancy, I'm ok with any interpretation that does so. I would personally fall on the side of wlhatever theory makes less assumptions and adds the least to the text.

 

[His student]

For the record......

I voted for a Wednesday crucifixion and a resurrection at sunset on what we call Saturday evening - exactly 72 hours. It was followed by the ascension at dawn on Sunday of the week following the week of Israel's selection of the Lamb for Passover.

The prophecy contained in the Passover and Exodus story in the O.T. is the most detailed and amazing prophecy in the Word of God. It spans the selection of the lambs on the Sabbath before the Passover (fulfilled on "Palm Saturday") to the crossing of the Red Sea during the darkness of the early hours of the next Sunday to the ascension on the other side of the Red Sea and the open show of the enemies of God at dawn on the day after the Sabbath following the Passover.

The details are simply astounding and, sadly, they are missed by those who have accepted the idea of a Friday crucifixion, the Last Supper as the Passover mean, and the Sunday morning resurrection.

While there are admittedly problems encountered in the gospels with this scenario (such as the statement by the man on the road to Emmaus) they are nowhere near as hard to explain as the problems presented with any other scenario.

I think it's a shame. Although the Lord obviously knows who are His - I think it could have been a wonderful tool for evangelism in the Jewish community during the church age had it not been for the traditions of men.

 

[ebedmelech]

Friday to Sunday. It's just as we count a part of a day as a day today. It's not an exacting phrase.

This is pretty much what Jesus meant when he told to Pharisees they "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel".

 

[prodromos]

For the record...... because the Gentile Christian church became anti-Semitic and astoundingly ignorant of the fact that the early church was Jewish......... we lost track of the fact that the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread can occur on a Thursday.........
making for a Wednesday crucifixion........

The Quartodeciman controversy proves your conjecture to be in error. Whether the day of Christ's resurrection was celebrated on the Sunday or on Nissan 14, from crucifixion to resurrection was 3 days inclusive. There is no evidence they 'forgot' details of the events, quite the opposite in fact.