Three days and three nights in heart of earth?

How long was Jesus in the heart of the earth?

  • Three days and three nights, seventy two hours. (His burial to his resurrection).

    Votes: 7 41.2%
  • From his burial on Friday to Sunday morning

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • From the time his spirit left his body until seventy two hours later.

    Votes: 2 11.8%

  • Total voters
    17

DennisTate

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For the record...... because the Gentile Christian church became anti-Semitic and astoundingly ignorant of the fact that the early church was Jewish......... we lost track of the fact that the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread can occur on a Thursday.........
making for a Wednesday crucifixion........

a burial late Wednesday and a resurrection three days and three nights later..... and then by the morning of the First Day of the Week Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen....... and I am sure...... exactly seventy two hours from the time of his actual death or his burial...... depending on exactly what he meant by his being in the heart of the earth????

And by Thursday I don't mean from midnight to midnight, I mean from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, (I read in 31 C. E.).

Leviticus 23:32
"It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

Did he mean from the second that his spirit actually left his body?

That sounds logical to me.

Or did he mean from the moment that his body would be placed in the tomb?

I suppose that that might make sense as well???

(I just began a discussion over in Spiritual Gifts and I think that this comment that I almost posted would have been inappropriate for that forum so I will begin this as a new discussion and poll):


Anyway... .my point is that once we know more information we will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would not get all confused and by three days and three night mean two nights and one day!


Can you tell us more about the personality of Jesus?

Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai answers this question beginning at the 1:03:27
mark in this video and the insights are so huge that I feel this needs to be a whole new discussion.

One of the important things that Jesus showed him is that Jesus - Yeshua took far, far, far more upon Himself during those three days in the heart of the earth than we can begin to imagine.

I personally believe that Dr. Kevin Zadai had a real encounter with Jesus during his brush with death and I think you will find this greatly encouraging information.


 
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DennisTate

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Matthew 12

38 Then certain of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, Teacher, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet: 40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:38 - 40)

Now this is somewhat confusing because Jonah's body was in the heart of the whale for three days and three nights so my answer to the poll could be wrong because I went with
"From the time his spirit left his body until seventy two hours later."

I am thinking that it was the fact that the spirit of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus that was in hell for three days and three nights that is the fulfillment of this sign and promise.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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a burial late Wednesday and a resurrection three days and three nights later.

Wed night =1
Thur night =2
Fri night =3
Sabbath night =4

so by your post it would be four night for him to arise on the first day not three unless you are saying he arose before sunset on Sabbath the seventh day of the week

At the time of Jesus any portion of a day was referred to as a day and the new day stated at sunset
 
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DennisTate

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Wed night =1
Thur night =2
Fri night =3
Sabbath night =4

so by your post it would be four night for him to arise on the first day not three unless you are saying he arose before sunset on Sabbath the seventh day of the week

At the time of Jesus any portion of a day was referred to as a day and the new day stated at sunset

Exactly... the First Day of Unleavened Bread being from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset should mean Messiah Yeshua - Jesus being resurrected in the late afternoon on Saturday so He is already risen... at the time that Mary and the others go to the tomb on the morning of the First Day of the week, Sunday morning.

The question would be was He resurrected seventy two hours from the time His spirit left his body or.....
seventy two hours from the time his body is placed in the tomb.

I am thinking from the time that His spirit leaves his body would begin when he is in the heart of the earth.
 
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DennisTate

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So much for “Good Friday” to “Easter Sunday”. Not possible. That’s not 3 days and 3 nights.

Correct..... I believe that the Good Friday to Easter Sunday tradition is based on the fact that the Gentile Christian church forgot about the First Day of Unleavened Bread falling on a regular week day, not necessarily on the weekly Sabbath, which is Saturday.
 
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AvisG

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Now wait a minute. I happen to have an EXTENSIVE background in NDE research. You're going to take your cues from an NDE EXPERIENCER?

Are you going to attach similar significance to the vast numbers of credible NDE accounts (meaning the experiencer's near-death state is medically verifiable and the experiencer has no obvious financial, political or religious agenda) with content that is distinctly non-Christian? No, you will cherry-pick those that make you happy as the "real deal" and dismiss the others as fraudulent or demonic.

The reality is, NDE accounts are all over the map. I take NONE of the content seriously. The PHENOMENON itself is the message.

I have read scholarly accounts to the effect that, in first century Judaism, any part of a day was a "day." Ergo, Friday-Saturday-Sunday were "three days." Jesus may have simply been using the 'three days and three nights" phraseology by way of analogy with Jonah. I'm not prepared to rewrite history over concern about "three nights" - and CERTAINLY not because some NDE experiencer thinks he got the real scoop from Jesus.
 
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DennisTate

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They certainly had their reasons.

True... but remember it was the wealthy leadership of the Jewish people who wanted John the Baptist and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus killed..... not the ordinary Jews and poor Jews who came out by the hundreds and by the thousands to be baptized by John and to listen to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus preach the Sermon on the Mount.
 
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DennisTate

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Now wait a minute. I happen to have an EXTENSIVE background in NDE research. You're going to take your cues from an NDE EXPERIENCER?

Are you going to attach similar significance to the vast numbers of credible NDE accounts (meaning the experiencer's near-death state is medically verifiable and the experiencer has no obvious financial, political or religious agenda) with content that is distinctly non-Christian? No, you will cherry-pick those that make you happy as the "real deal" and dismiss the others as fraudulent or demonic.

The reality is, NDE accounts are all over the map. I take NONE of the content seriously. The PHENOMENON itself is the message.

I have read scholarly accounts to the effect that, in first century Judaism, any part of a day was a "day." Ergo, Friday-Saturday-Sunday were "three days." Jesus may have simply been using the 'three days and three nights" phraseology by way of analogy with Jonah. I'm not prepared to rewrite history over concern about "three nights" - and CERTAINLY not because some NDE experiencer thinks he got the real scoop from Jesus.


What I was taught about three days and three night in the heart of the earth was from Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong back in the 1970's....... not from this near death experience account but I want you to understand that when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus says three days and three nights....... He really does mean what he said and a First Day of Unleavened Bread (a High Sabbath), falling on a Thursday explains how this can work out.

So... the women who prepared the spices for example cannot prepare them on Thursday because it is a high Sabbath, they prepared the spices on Friday, the preparation day. They rest on the weekly Sabbath Saturday and go to the tomb on Sunday morning and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen. (I believe ten to fifteen hours previously Saturday late afternoon or early evening, seventy two hours from either Messiah Yeshua - Jesus death or his burial, one or the other).

This detail is becoming more and more important as more and more Jews are beginning to believe in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as the Messiah.
 
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HTacianas

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For the record...... because the Gentile Christian church became anti-Semitic and astoundingly ignorant of the fact that the early church was Jewish......... we lost track of the fact that the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread can occur on a Thursday.........
making for a Wednesday crucifixion........

a burial late Wednesday and a resurrection three days and three nights later..... and then by the morning of the First Day of the Week Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen....... and I am sure...... exactly seventy two hours from the time of his actual death or his burial...... depending on exactly what he meant by his being in the heart of the earth????

And by Thursday I don't mean from midnight to midnight, I mean from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, (I read in 31 C. E.).

Leviticus 23:32
"It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

Did he mean from the second that his spirit actually left his body?

That sounds logical to me.

Or did he mean from the moment that his body would be placed in the tomb?

I suppose that that might make sense as well???

(I just began a discussion over in Spiritual Gifts and I think that this comment that I almost posted would have been inappropriate for that forum so I will begin this as a new discussion and poll):


Anyway... .my point is that once we know more information we will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would not get all confused and by three days and three night mean two nights and one day!


Can you tell us more about the personality of Jesus?





The "three nights" of the account is a later emendation. The "three days" may be as well.

By Jewish reckoning Jesus was "in the heart of the earth" for three days. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
 
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AvisG

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What I was taught about three days and three night in the heart of the earth was from Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong back in the 1970's....... not from this near death experience account but I want you to understand that when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus says three days and three nights....... He really does mean what he said and a First Day of Unleavened Bread (a High Sabbath), falling on a Thursday explains how this can work out.

So... the women who prepared the spices for example cannot prepare them on Thursday because it is a high Sabbath, they prepared the spices on Friday, the preparation day. They rest on the weekly Sabbath Saturday and go to the tomb on Sunday morning and Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen. (I believe ten to fifteen hours previously Saturday late afternoon or early evening, seventy two hours from either Messiah Yeshua - Jesus death or his burial, one or the other).

This detail is becoming more and more important as more and more Jews are beginning to believe in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as the Messiah.

I'm certainly not saying your position is silly. I'll look into it further. If it has merit, I'll acknowledge it. I'm just vary wary, from long experience, of attaching any weight to elaborate "I met Jesus" NDE accounts.
 
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DennisTate

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I'm certainly not saying your position is silly. I'll look into it further. If it has merit, I'll acknowledge it. I'm just vary wary, from long experience, of attaching any weight to elaborate "I met Jesus" NDE accounts.

At the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt Rabbi Akiva made decisions that separated the Rabbinic Jewish community from the Messianic Jewish community in a manner that made it nearly impossible for Messianic Jews to continue to go to the synagogues on the Sabbaths.

These divisions are step by step being reversed in our time period and this one seemingly small detail will become more and more significant in the coming years and decades.

"The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to follow the Messiah, he had to convert to Judaism. Then Peter had a revelation that Gentiles did not have to convert to Judaism to be saved (see Acts 10). The Jerusalem Council meeting determined that Gentiles did not have to be circumcised. There were only four easily followed requirements. They were to “abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood” (Acts 15:20). After all, James said, they could learn more about God by hear- ing the words of Moses every Saturday in the syna- gogue (see Acts 15:21). This opened the door to widespread church growth among the Gentiles. So many Gentiles were saved that the Jewish believers became a minority.

The first Jewish followers of Jesus were called “Nazarenes” (part of the Essenes sect of Judaism dis- cussed in Chapter 3). They practiced traditional Judaism and were widely accepted by unbelieving Jews. Early in the second century their numbers reached 400,000.1 In the Book of Acts, the early church fathers said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many myriads [tens of thousands] of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law” (Acts 21:20).

The Nazarenes’ acceptance by traditional Jews came to a halt in A.D. 135 when Rabbi Akiba declared that Bar Kochba was the Jewish Messiah. His followers hoped he would lead them to victory over the Romans. The Nazarenes refused to fight because they believed Jesus was the true Messiah rather than Bar Kochba. They were branded traitors, not because they believed in Jesus, but because they would not join Bar Kochba’s armed struggle. Bar Kochba and his followers were quickly slaughtered by the Romans. Afterward, Jews were banned from Jerusalem.

History shows that as the center of the Christian faith moved from Jerusalem to Rome, it became increasingly Hellenized, adopting pagan customs and philosophies rather than the God-ordained practices and beliefs of the Bible. At the same time, Christianity became increasingly anti-Jewish." (Sid Roth from his book The Incomplete Church, Chapter 7, page 64, 65)
 
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DennisTate

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The "three nights" of the account is a later emendation. The "three days" may be as well.

By Jewish reckoning Jesus was "in the heart of the earth" for three days. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Or.... was He in in the heart of the earth for all of Wednesday night, all of Thursday night and all of Friday night but already resurrected by Saturday night???
 
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For the record...... because the Gentile Christian church became anti-Semitic and astoundingly ignorant of the fact that the early church was Jewish......... we lost track of the fact that the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread can occur on a Thursday.........
making for a Wednesday crucifixion........

a burial late Wednesday and a resurrection three days and three nights later..... and then by the morning of the First Day of the Week Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen....... and I am sure...... exactly seventy two hours from the time of his actual death or his burial...... depending on exactly what he meant by his being in the heart of the earth????

And by Thursday I don't mean from midnight to midnight, I mean from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, (I read in 31 C. E.).

Leviticus 23:32
"It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

Did he mean from the second that his spirit actually left his body?

That sounds logical to me.

Or did he mean from the moment that his body would be placed in the tomb?

I suppose that that might make sense as well???

(I just began a discussion over in Spiritual Gifts and I think that this comment that I almost posted would have been inappropriate for that forum so I will begin this as a new discussion and poll):


Anyway... .my point is that once we know more information we will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would not get all confused and by three days and three night mean two nights and one day!


Can you tell us more about the personality of Jesus?

A day wasn't always a literal 24 hour long time period. For example I may say I drove for 3 days to get to disney world.....That means I was driving for 3, 8 hour long periods over 3 literal days....Then I spent 4 days at the park...or 4, 10 hour long periods of time.
 
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HTacianas

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Or.... was He in in the heart of the earth for all of Wednesday night, all of Thursday night and all of Friday night but already resurrected by Saturday night???

He was crucified on Friday afternoon and resurrected after midnight Saturday, meaning Sunday morning.

There is a discrepancy between the gospels based on the reckoning of passover. Matthew, Mark, and Luke use the temple dating, i.e., the reckoning of the pharisees, while John uses the date of the Essenes. It creates confusion in modern times.
 
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DennisTate

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Now wait a minute. I happen to have an EXTENSIVE background in NDE research. You're going to take your cues from an NDE EXPERIENCER?

Are you going to attach similar significance to the vast numbers of credible NDE accounts (meaning the experiencer's near-death state is medically verifiable and the experiencer has no obvious financial, political or religious agenda) with content that is distinctly non-Christian? No, you will cherry-pick those that make you happy as the "real deal" and dismiss the others as fraudulent or demonic.

The reality is, NDE accounts are all over the map. I take NONE of the content seriously. The PHENOMENON itself is the message.

I have read scholarly accounts to the effect that, in first century Judaism, any part of a day was a "day." Ergo, Friday-Saturday-Sunday were "three days." Jesus may have simply been using the 'three days and three nights" phraseology by way of analogy with Jonah. I'm not prepared to rewrite history over concern about "three nights" - and CERTAINLY not because some NDE experiencer thinks he got the real scoop from Jesus.


I admit that I could be wrong but after years of researching these near death experience accounts I concluded that IF there was a genuine Life Review with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus then........
(barring that the supposed experiencer is a phenomenally good liar.......
which could of course happen on occasion)...... then this promise and Covenant is being fulfilled in our time period:

John 16
"These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."

This is a promise that goes to infinite time in the future.......
a thousand years from now Messiah Yeshua - Jesus will, (I believe), still be revealing new and pretty astonishing things about the Father to us but after we die or are resurrected we will be meeting directly with the Father who will make His throne on the earth somewhere after a thousand years or so from the Second Coming.

I concluded that the Life Review was an important litmus test due to certain statements by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus.

John 5

John 5:22
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

Jhn 5:27
"And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

A genuine Life Review with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus produces a massive transformation in the behaviour of the person who has this experience.

3. The Life Review of Howard Storm


This is all implied in the Catholic Bible as well:

Douay-Rheims Bible, Baruch Chapter 6
"[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls."
 
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DennisTate

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He was crucified on Friday afternoon and resurrected after midnight Saturday, meaning Sunday morning.

There is a discrepancy between the gospels based on the reckoning of passover. Matthew, Mark, and Luke use the temple dating, i.e., the reckoning of the pharisees, while John uses the date of the Essenes. It creates confusion in modern times.

This is one of our Christian traditions that will soon become a stumbling block to many, many Orthodox and Chassidic Jews who may tend to find our lack of understanding of High Jewish Sabbaths falling usually on week days somewhat disconcerting.

There is roughly a six out of seven chance of a High Jewish Sabbath falling on a Sabbath. Pentecost being an exception due to it being fifty days from an event that occurred on the Sabbath during Unleavened Bread, (the day that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was resurrected).


Here is an informative article on this:

Pentecost Study Material
The Wave Sheaf Question:


The Day of the Wave Sheaf

On which day was the wave sheaf (Heb. "omer") to be offered? "And he [High Priest] shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow (Heb. mimohorat) after the sabbath..." (Lev. 23:11).

But which sabbath? The Pharisees (and modern Jews) took this word "sabbath" to mean the first day of Unleavened Bread, which was an annual sabbath. The Essenes understood "sabbath" to mean the first weekly sabbath which followed the seven days of Unleavened Bread.

The Sadducees, and later, the Church of God, took the word "sabbath" to mean the weekly sabbath which (in about nine times out of ten) fell during the seven days of Unleavened Bread.

We know those who count Pentecost from the 15th of Nisan are wrong. They always keep Pentecost on a fixed day, the 6th of Sivan. Had God wanted us to observe Pentecost on the fixed date, He would have plainly told us so. All of the other annual sabbaths are plainly, clearly commanded to be observed annually on a set day of the sacred calendar.

We also know the Essenes were wrong in the way they counted the fifty days to Pentecost — by counting from the first Sunday following the weekly sabbath after the days of Unleavened Bread.

Here, then, is the crucial question: how should we count the days to Pentecost? From the Sunday during the days of Unleavened Bread? Or, should Pentecost be counted from the Sunday immediately following the weekly sabbath which must occur during the days of Unleavened Bread? In other words, is it imperative that the weekly "SABBATH" fall during the days of Unleavened Bread? Or is it essential that the SUNDAY following that particular weekly "sabbath" must fall within Unleavened Bread?

These are more crucial questions than might appear at first; for in those years where the last day of Unleavened Bread also happens to fall on a weekly sabbath (producing a "double sabbath"), the offering of the wave sheaf is made to fall after, outside the days of Unleavened Bread. This is, indeed, what is happening this year. This situation will occur three more times during this century: 1977, 1981 and 1994.

Christ Offered up During Unleavened Bread

Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong mentioned in a conference (attended by Messrs. GTA, DLA, HLH, AAF, FLB, RFM and Dr. Kuhn — 31 January 1974) that he thought it was imperative that the wave sheaf be offered during the days of Unleavened Bread — since Jesus Christ (the ante-type) was offered up to the Father on a Sunday during those days.

In 31 A.D. Christ was crucified on the daylight part of the 14th of Nisan. This was on a Wednesday. He was resurrected at the end of the sabbath ("the third day") and was offered to the Father as the first "wave sheaf" on a Sunday during the days of Unleavened Bread (John 20:37; Matt. 28:9; Lev. 23:14).

It APPEARS that the "omer" must be offered on the Sunday during the days of Unleavened Bread.

But, according to the calendar which we have already sent out for 1974, the 'wave sheaf" (Heb. omer) is thrown outside the days of Unleavened Bread: and this appears to be unbiblical.

Is it not therefore imperative that this matter be discussed thoroughly by Mr. Armstrong and the top ministers here at Headquarters? We need to make certain we are following the Bible instructions in this matter.

Any Bible Proof?

Again, we need to ask: Is there any scriptural evidence to show us whether it is the weekly sabbath which must occur during the days of Unleavened Bread, or whether it is the Sunday ("morrow after the sabbath") which must always fall within that seven day period?

It appears that the book of Joshua gives us the answer to this important question: Notice (from the Jewish translation) the wording of Joshua 5:13, 12: "And they [Israel] did eat of the PRODUCE of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes and parched corn [grain], in the selfsame day. And the manna ceased on the morrow, after they had eaten of the PRODUCE of the land: neither had the children of Israel manna any more: but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year."

The King James Authorized Version and Young's Literal Translation of the Bible use the words "old corn" in Joshua 5:11, 12; but at least a dozen other English translations render it as "produce." Still others render it as just "corn," "new corn," "grain," "wheat," "oats," "fruit," or "frumenty."

When these verses are carefully compared with other verses in the book of Joshua they appear to prove that the omer had to have been offered on the day after the Passover, the 15th of Nisan, which would have been (as always) on a Sunday! This would mean that the 14th, the Passover day, would have been on a weekly sabbath that year; for the omer had to be offered "on the morrow after the (weekly) sabbath."

Both the weekly sabbath and the Sunday following it, according to today's sacred calendar, fall within the days of Unleavened Bread in approximately nine out of ten years.

But about every tenth year, when the weekly sabbath coincides with the last day of Unleavened Bread, this causes the wave sheaf Sunday to fall after those days — unless in those years where there is a "double sabbath," the omer is to be offered on the morrow after the weekly sabbath which immediately pecedes the days of Unleavened Bread. This would still keep the "wave sheaf" within the Days of Unleavened Bread.

A careful study of the first six chapters of Joshua appear to make it clear that the children of Israel did in fact not eat of the "old corn" but instead ate of the "produce" or "new corn" (probably barley) of the land of Canaan on the first day of Unleavened Bread in the very year in which they entered the Promised Land.

Here are a few facts which must be borne in mind:

1) The Israelites had been subsisting on "manna" up until the very day on which they first ate of the "produce" of Canaan (Josh. 5:12). They had not been eating any kind of "corn" or "grain" for forty years.
2) They entered the Promised Land on the "tenth day" of Nisan — just a few days before they were to celebrate their first Passover in the Land of Promise (Josh. 4:19).

3) All of the males (except a very few of the ancients) were circumcised either later on the 10th of Nisan, or on the next day (Joshua 5:1-8). And it would have been three or four days before these men would have been healed so they could move about (either to do battle or to procure food). On the "third day" after being circumcised the men would have been painfully "sore" (Gen. 34:25).

It is, therefore, most unlikely that the Israelitish men would have made any forays into the land of Canaan to procure "corn" for food. And we are expressly told: "And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole" (Josh. 5:8).

This indicates that the men of Israel did not in fact go out and procure grain between the 10th and 14th of Nisan. had no need for "corn" at this time — since manna from heaven was still a daily occurrence (Josh. 5:12).
 
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Why is that?
The Jews were exempt from emperor worship because the Roman governor knew all of them would refuse. He was unwilling to kill every single one of them (which would’ve been the law) so they were not obligated to do it.

The Church was initially grandfathered in on that as Rome considered Christianity to be a branch of Judaism.

But later the Jewish authorities persuaded Rome that the Church is an utterly separate institution. The exemption was lifted, Christians refused to obey and the rest is persecution.

And somehow, apparently the Jews sincerely didn’t (and don’t) understand how so much of the Church came to despise them. They seem to believe they’re somehow the victims in all this.
 
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