Three days and three nights in heart of earth?

[prodromos]

Anyway... .my point is that once we know more information we will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would not get all confused and by three days and three night mean two nights and one day!

Do you think that a man buying 20 head of cattle will find it confusing that he receives 20 whole cattle and not just their heads? Synecdoche is an extremely common figure of speech we use all the time without any confusion. If someone asked you to give them a hand, would you get all confused thinking "why does he want someone's hand?"

 

[Robin Mauro]

For the record...... because the Gentile Christian church became anti-Semitic and astoundingly ignorant of the fact that the early church was Jewish......... we lost track of the fact that the annual Sabbath of the First Day of Unleavened Bread can occur on a Thursday.........
making for a Wednesday crucifixion........

a burial late Wednesday and a resurrection three days and three nights later..... and then by the morning of the First Day of the Week Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is already risen....... and I am sure...... exactly seventy two hours from the time of his actual death or his burial...... depending on exactly what he meant by his being in the heart of the earth????

And by Thursday I don't mean from midnight to midnight, I mean from Wednesday at sunset to Thursday at sunset for the First Day of Unleavened Bread, (I read in 31 C. E.).

Leviticus 23:32
"It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

Did he mean from the second that his spirit actually left his body?

That sounds logical to me.

Or did he mean from the moment that his body would be placed in the tomb?

I suppose that that might make sense as well???

(I just began a discussion over in Spiritual Gifts and I think that this comment that I almost posted would have been inappropriate for that forum so I will begin this as a new discussion and poll):


Anyway... .my point is that once we know more information we will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus would not get all confused and by three days and three night mean two nights and one day!


Can you tell us more about the personality of Jesus?

So, are you saying he rose on Saturday?

 

[nolidad]

This is all very interesting... but who cares? We are about to celebrate Christamas... thank God there is no controversy surrounding the fact that Christ was born on December 25 in the year 0 A.D.

I hope you are being sarcastic!

There was no 0 AD.

Jesus was born probably Sept. or Oct. and between 4-6 B.C.

 

[Gup20]

I hope you are being sarcastic!

There was no 0 AD.

Jesus was born probably Sept. or Oct. and between 4-6 B.C.

Sarcasm is one of my gifts of the spirit.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

At this time you sincerely think that this is a devious trick of words due to this conflicting with what you were taught by your denomination that you love..... and I have been there and done that but .... the time is coming when most of us will know that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is simply NOT into denominations like we are.

The following verses lays out GODS denomination
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

This is not the first time that I ran into an explanation on what was happening during those three days and three nights that has me thinking that this is more important than we tend to imagine at first.

After the thirty six minute mark in this sermon is a very similar explanation:

Rabbi Alon Anava was a Skeptical Atheistic Jew at the time of his first near death experience and what he reports sure sounds like being SHREDDED...by Lucifer. If Alon Anava had known Messiah Yeshua - Jesus he would NOT have had to go through that terrifying experience that seemed like millions of years even though it was in seven minutes earth time!

Orthodox Rabbi does most powerful sermon on thankfulness.

Dennis

this a five minute video on three days and three nights you might find interesting

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=586813255167228

 

[dqhall]

But if there are two Sabbath in one week.... .One of Thursday and on on Saturday.... .there could be TWO days of preparation that week. Jews get prepared both for High Sabbaths that fall during the regular week days but they also prepare on every Friday for the weekly Sabbath.

The Passover is a special day of doing no work like the Sabbath. In the Gospel of John, Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation for the Passover. This is the day they slaughtered the lambs and roasted them on spits in preparation for the Passover meal after sundown as the Jewish day began at sunset. The Temple police took Jesus to Pilate’s headquarters. They could not have arrested him on the Passover as they were not allowed to work that day. The Jews did not want to go into Pilate’s residence for fear of being made ritually unclean and disqualified from eating the Passover. Pilate was a Roman Gentile. His place was not Kosher. According to the tractate Pesachim, one who was unclean was not allowed to celebrate the Passover feast, but would have to make it up at a later date. Pilate went out to the Jews who wanted Jesus executed. He ordered the execution. Jesus was on the cross between 9 AM - 3 PM. This was the time the lambs were slaughtered in the temple as described in Jewish Talmudic texts. The Passover was celebrated in Jerusalem until Jerusalem was destroyed c. 70 AD. The Jews kept record of religious observances from the early first century. These are in the Talmud. Jesus was put in a tomb part of day one. Sunset began a new day on the Jewish calendar. Technically another calendar day and the first night. Three days or partial days Jesus rose from the dead.

 

[DennisTate]

So, are you saying he rose on Saturday?

Yes... I am saying that he rose on Saturday after either seventy two hours from when his spirit left his body on Wednesday..... or from the time when his body was placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea........ That would depend on what he fully meant by "heart of the earth' and I don't know that exactly.

This may seem nit picky but the number of Jews in Israel that are coming to belief in Yeshua - Jesus as Messiah the Passover Lamb is growing so fast that this is an important detail for the majority of pastors and theologians to soon become aware of for when you do visit Jerusalem...... or for when you get to speak with Orthodox or Jewish or Conservative or Reform Jewish scholars who are noticing some of the unusual things that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is doing all around the world.

 

[DennisTate]

The article I quoted (A matter of days) says it this way:

Some have suggested alternative timings that “allow” Jesus to have died on the Wednesday or Thursday rather than the Friday. Holders of such a position have sometimes criticized the Friday–Sunday position as following a “tradition” of men rather than Scripture, since the Scripture does not explicitly say that Jesus died on a “Friday.”

However, to have Jesus dying on a Wednesday requires the postulation of an extra Sabbath day on the Thursday, though nothing is mentioned in the Gospels. There is nothing in the text that leads us necessarily to suspect that the Sabbath was anything other than the regular Day Seven Sabbath. We want to emphasize that this is not, to us, a major point of doctrinal concern. The “Special Sabbath” analysis is certainly a valid analysis, maintained by people whose commitment to the authority of Scripture is sound. We would want to maintain that our own timescale is scripturally sound—and we believe it is to be preferred, as it does not require assumptions extra to the text.​

I agree with this analysis. I think that in this particular case, there is more than one way to meet all of the Biblical criteria, and as long as your goal is to preserve Biblical inerrancy, I'm ok with any interpretation that does so. I would personally fall on the side of wlhatever theory makes less assumptions and adds the least to the text.

I listened to a video this morning that made several points that hit me so hard that I typed them out. I rarely do anything that drastic....... copy and pasting is my usual style.........

For the record Kevin Zadai did not specifically teach the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday resurrection idea, that was taught to me more than forty years ago but I thought that I should mention it now that this information has came up about what was going on during the time between the death of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and his resurrection.

This section is after the 1:03:27 mark by five minutes or more:

I have decided to transcribe much of the comments by Dr. Kevin Zadai related to what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus really took upon himself during those three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Kevin Zadai: "I looked into his eyes and I saw how much he cared for people, in fact, there were a couple of times there when He was talking to me and He was going into the deeper things of what He did behind the scenes on the cross, like we know He died on a cross and our sins are forgiven but did you know that He bought back more than what we know and we have to have the Apostle Paul be caught up into heavenly realms and then come back and write all his epistles to understand some of the things that Jesus did for us. So you have all of these "in Him" scriptures; "in Him we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus," these ideas of who we are in Christ Jesus came from Paul because he was caught up in the spirit and he saw all the things that were in Christ so when he wrote to all the churches, he's really just revealing God's personality. So Jesus's personality when I spoke with Him on a number of occasions was that He loves people and has compassion on people but He wants them to know the truth because that's what sets people free.

But when He said this to me one time, he was telling me that people didn't discern what He had done for them. Like how He had been actually separated from the Father at the cross and then He spent that time in the belly of the earth, alone, and He said that He was separated from the Father during that time and He choked up, because He started to feel the emotion that He went through, He said that that was the hardest thing for Him, was being separated from the Father because of our sin and He said Christians don't realize what I did for them. He said they never have to be alone, they never have to feel abandoned because I went through that for them in the depths of the earth. He said I was separated from the Father so that mankind doesn't have to be and He choked up, and I saw His compassion." (Kevin Zadai)

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I listened to a video this morning that made several points that hit me so hard that I typed them out. I rarely do anything that drastic....... copy and pasting is my usual style.........

This section is after the 1:03:27 mark by five minutes or more:

I have decided to transcribe much of the comments by Dr. Kevin Zadai related to what Messiah Yeshua - Jesus really took upon himself during those three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Kevin Zadai: "I looked into his eyes and I saw how much he cared for people, in fact, there were a couple of times there when He was talking to me and He was going into the deeper things of what He did behind the scenes on the cross, like we know He died on a cross and our sins are forgiven but did you know that He bought back more than what we know and we have to have the Apostle Paul be caught up into heavenly realms and then come back and write all his epistles to understand some of the things that Jesus did for us. So you have all of these "in Him" scriptures; "in Him we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus," these ideas of who we are in Christ Jesus came from Paul because he was caught up in the spirit and he saw all the things that were in Christ so when he wrote to all the churches, he's really just revealing God's personality. So Jesus's personality when I spoke with Him on a number of occasions was that He loves people and has compassion on people but He wants them to know the truth because that's what sets people free.

But when He said this to me one time, he was telling me that people didn't discern what He had done for them. Like how He had been actually separated from the Father at the cross and then He spent that time in the belly of the earth, alone, and He said that He was separated from the Father during that time and He choked up, because He started to feel the emotion that He went through, He said that that was the hardest thing for Him, was being separated from the Father because of our sin and He said Christians don't realize what I did for them. He said they never have to be alone, they never have to feel abandoned because I went through that for them in the depths of the earth. He said I was separated from the Father so that mankind doesn't have to be and He choked up, and I saw His compassion." (Kevin Zadai)

I’d stay away from this guy

 

[DennisTate]

I’d stay away from this guy

For the record he is not the one who taught me the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday resurrection theory. That was taught to me over forty years ago by Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

For the record he is not the one who taught me the Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday resurrection theory. That was taught to me over forty years ago by Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong.

No problem but the guy Kevin in that video is 100% A false teacher. Stay as far away from that nut job as you can.

 

[David Kent]

I voted for a Wednesday crucifixion and a resurrection at sunset on what we call Saturday evening - exactly 72 hours. It was followed by the ascension at dawn on Sunday of the week following the week of Israel's selection of the Lamb for Passover.

That couldn't be c orfrect as the women set out for the tomb towards the end of the sabbath and when the got there Jesus was already risen. It dosn't say that Jesus rose at daybreak.

 

[DennisTate]

No problem but the guy Kevin in that video is 100% A false teacher. Stay as far away from that nut job as you can.

I've been listening to him a lot lately. I consider him to be one of the most inspiring teachers that I have ever heard.

 

[DennisTate]

I voted for a Wednesday crucifixion and a resurrection at sunset on what we call Saturday evening - exactly 72 hours. It was followed by the ascension at dawn on Sunday of the week following the week of Israel's selection of the Lamb for Passover.

The prophecy contained in the Passover and Exodus story in the O.T. is the most detailed and amazing prophecy in the Word of God. It spans the selection of the lambs on the Sabbath before the Passover (fulfilled on "Palm Saturday") to the crossing of the Red Sea during the darkness of the early hours of the next Sunday to the ascension on the other side of the Red Sea and the open show of the enemies of God at dawn on the day after the Sabbath following the Passover.

The details are simply astounding and, sadly, they are missed by those who have accepted the idea of a Friday crucifixion, the Last Supper as the Passover mean, and the Sunday morning resurrection.

While there are admittedly problems encountered in the gospels with this scenario (such as the statement by the man on the road to Emmaus) they are nowhere near as hard to explain as the problems presented with any other scenario.

I think it's a shame. Although the Lord obviously knows who are His - I think it could have been a wonderful tool for evangelism in the Jewish community during the church age had it not been for the traditions of men.

Thank you immensely for replying to this topic. Yes..... there are details in there that are truly inspiring once they are understood but sadly I forgot most of the specifics over these last thirty years.

 

[DennisTate]

The article I quoted (A matter of days) says it this way:

Some have suggested alternative timings that “allow” Jesus to have died on the Wednesday or Thursday rather than the Friday. Holders of such a position have sometimes criticized the Friday–Sunday position as following a “tradition” of men rather than Scripture, since the Scripture does not explicitly say that Jesus died on a “Friday.”

However, to have Jesus dying on a Wednesday requires the postulation of an extra Sabbath day on the Thursday, though nothing is mentioned in the Gospels. There is nothing in the text that leads us necessarily to suspect that the Sabbath was anything other than the regular Day Seven Sabbath. We want to emphasize that this is not, to us, a major point of doctrinal concern. The “Special Sabbath” analysis is certainly a valid analysis, maintained by people whose commitment to the authority of Scripture is sound. We would want to maintain that our own timescale is scripturally sound—and we believe it is to be preferred, as it does not require assumptions extra to the text.​

I agree with this analysis. I think that in this particular case, there is more than one way to meet all of the Biblical criteria, and as long as your goal is to preserve Biblical inerrancy, I'm ok with any interpretation that does so. I would personally fall on the side of wlhatever theory makes less assumptions and adds the least to the text.

I think that this is a healthy approach because this is certainly not a huge doctrine but just something that is nice to know just in case your daughter or granddaughter brings home a fiance who believes in this idea.

It is not an idea up there with these basic principles at all, that is for sure, but I am glad that I was taught about this.

Hebrews 6:1

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

 

[DennisTate]

Now wait a minute. I happen to have an EXTENSIVE background in NDE research. You're going to take your cues from an NDE EXPERIENCER?

Are you going to attach similar significance to the vast numbers of credible NDE accounts (meaning the experiencer's near-death state is medically verifiable and the experiencer has no obvious financial, political or religious agenda) with content that is distinctly non-Christian? No, you will cherry-pick those that make you happy as the "real deal" and dismiss the others as fraudulent or demonic.

The reality is, NDE accounts are all over the map. I take NONE of the content seriously. The PHENOMENON itself is the message.

I have read scholarly accounts to the effect that, in first century Judaism, any part of a day was a "day." Ergo, Friday-Saturday-Sunday were "three days." Jesus may have simply been using the 'three days and three nights" phraseology by way of analogy with Jonah. I'm not prepared to rewrite history over concern about "three nights" - and CERTAINLY not because some NDE experiencer thinks he got the real scoop from Jesus.

The three days and three nights idea, of a Wednesday crucifixion and a burial near sunset on Wednesday and then His resurrection exactly seventy two hours lately was taught to me back in the 1970's by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong but what Kevin Zadai was shown is that these three days and three nights were much more difficult than the scourging and crucifixion.

I consider near death experience accounts a powerful evangelistic tool that we are not using to their full potential yet.

 

[His student]

That couldn't be c orfrect as the women set out for the tomb towards the end of the sabbath and when the got there Jesus was already risen. It dosn't say that Jesus rose at daybreak.

You must have read my post wrong.

I didn't say that Jesus rose at daybreak. I said that He rose at dusk on what we call Saturday night - the beginning of what the Jews considered the day after the Sabbath or what we would call the start of Sunday.

Also the scriptures don't say that the women set out for the tomb "toward the end of the sabbath". They say that they set out after the sabbath while it was still dark.

The sabbath ended at dusk - long before they began their trip to the tomb (after they were sure the soldiers were gone because it had been a full 3 days and 3 nights since the burial).

The scriptures clearly say that they rested on the sabbath and then prepared the spices and that they purchased the spices and then rested on the sabbath. The only way those two statements can not be in conflict is if there were two sabbaths (the "high sabbath" of Passover and the regular weekly sabbath before they went to the tomb). That was indeed the case.

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

 

[His student]

Thank you immensely for replying to this topic. Yes..... there are details in there that are truly inspiring once they are understood but sadly I forgot most of the specifics over these last thirty years.

I have to admit that I didn't take the time to look at the videos in this thread. This is simply a truth I arrived at through study of the subject as a fairly new Christians some 40+ years ago.

Would that every new Christian would take the time to study doctrines for themselves rather than simply swallowing the pabulum they are fed through the traditions of a particular church as new Christians.

 

[Der Alte]

You must have read my post wrong.
I didn't say that Jesus rose at daybreak. I said that He rose at dusk on what we call Saturday night - the beginning of what the Jews considered the day after the Sabbath or what we would call the start of Sunday.
Also the scriptures don't say that the women set out for the tomb "toward the end of the sabbath". They say that they set out after the sabbath while it was still dark.
The sabbath ended at dusk - long before they began their trip to the tomb (after they were sure the soldiers were gone because it had been a full 3 days and 3 nights since the burial).
The scriptures clearly say that they rested on the sabbath and then prepared the spices and that they purchased the spices and then rested on the sabbath. The only way those two statements can not be in conflict is if there were two sabbaths (the "high sabbath" of Passover and the regular weekly sabbath before they went to the tomb). That was indeed the case.
I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Posted previously in this thread
All four gospels agree that Jesus was Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation. Then as now the Greek word for the day we call Friday is paraskeue, which does mean preparation.
The first day of unleavened bread is never called a Sabbath in the OT. It is called עצרת/atzereth, solemn assembly. It is similar to a sabbath but differs in one way, the preparation and cooking of food is specifically permitted.

Exo 12:15-16
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; howbeit the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses; for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be to you a holy convocation, and in the seventh day a holy convocation; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done by you.
LXX Exo 12:16 And the first day shall be called holy, and the seventh day shall be a holy convocation to you: ye shall do no servile work on them, only as many things as will necessarily be done by every soul, this only shall be done by you. ​

That being true, neither 1st nor 7th ULB requires a preparation day as does the weekly Sabbath. There was only one preparation day and one Sabbath in passion week.

Justin [A.D. 110-165.] The First Apology Chap. LXVII
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
...
Jewish Encyclopedia - DAY
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day. Again, a man who hears of a vow made by his wife or his daughter, and desires to cancel the vow, must do so on the same day on which he hears of it, as otherwise the protest has no effect; even if the hearing takes place a little time before night, the annulment must be done within that little time. The day is reckoned from evening to evening—i.e., night and day—except in reference to sacrifices, where daytime and the night following constitute one day (Lev. vii. 15; see Calendar). "The day" denotes: (a) Day of the Lord; (b) the Day of Atonement; (c) the treatise of the Mishnah that contains the laws concerning the Day of Atonement (See Yoma and Sabbath).E. G. H. M. F.​

Jewish Encyclopedia online