Futurist Only Thousand years

[Another Lazarus]

Aren't all seven trumpets the trumpets of God?... Rhetorical question; of course they are.

Each trumpet has its own specific event thus the trumpet of Rapture
takes place before the 144000 sealed/ be4 the destruction of earth by the 7 trumpets of God.
Rev 7:3 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
then after the sealing of 144000 the 7 trumpets of God shall destroy the earth
1st trumpet : people shall take bath in the shower of meteor and fire, they deserve it for God's time of mercy has gone.
2nd trumpet : mega explosion of super volcano (which killed fishes) and turned the third part of the sea into blood,
the 1/3 part of the ships destroyed indicating the following tsunami will travel across 1/3 of the globe with
such a massive destruction, imho the rest of the globe will also be striken by the tsunami like Japan's 2011.
3rd trumpet : God sent a deadly asteroid which breaks into pieces to bitter the water with radioactive content
4th trumpet : 1/3 of the Sun is darkened, the day will be like the evening
5th trumpet : This will happen at 3.5 years of the great tribulation
because the release of the angel from bottomless pit will kill the 2 Witness of God at the end of their testimony of 1260 days.
Rev 11:7 and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYah

 

[ivebeenshown]

We don't reign now. Paul told us that crowns are given at His appearing.

According to Paul, the kingdom of God is righteousness, and peace and joy in the Spirit. According to Revelation, the Son "hath made us kings and priests." The reign is now, and forever, as His kingdom is everlasting. Though Satan may prevail over the saints in his evil deeds, he cannot defeat the kingdom of God, of which we are already kings and priests.

 

[Echolipse]

Each trumpet has its own specific event thus the trumpet of Rapture
takes place before the 144000 sealed/ be4 the destruction of earth by the 7 trumpets of God.
Rev 7:3 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
then after the sealing of 144000 the 7 trumpets of God shall destroy the earth
1st trumpet : people shall take bath in the shower of meteor and fire, they deserve it for God's time of mercy has gone.
2nd trumpet : mega explosion of super volcano (which killed fishes) and turned the third part of the sea into blood,
the 1/3 part of the ships destroyed indicating the following tsunami will travel across 1/3 of the globe with
such a massive destruction, imho the rest of the globe will also be striken by the tsunami like Japan's 2011.
3rd trumpet : God sent a deadly asteroid which breaks into pieces to bitter the water with radioactive content
4th trumpet : 1/3 of the Sun is darkened, the day will be like the evening
5th trumpet : This will happen at 3.5 years of the great tribulation
because the release of the angel from bottomless pit will kill the 2 Witness of God at the end of their testimony of 1260 days.
Rev 11:7 and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYah

Yes, I've very well aware of what all the trumpets are, I've down countless research on it, but you still haven't answered the question. How does the 7th trumpet different from the rest of the trumpets and what verse makes it obvious that the 7th trumpet is different from the rest of them? From my point of view, all 7 trumpets are trumpets of God.

 

[iamlamad]

Each trumpet has its own specific event thus the trumpet of Rapture
takes place before the 144000 sealed/ be4 the destruction of earth by the 7 trumpets of God.
Rev 7:3 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
then after the sealing of 144000 the 7 trumpets of God shall destroy the earth
1st trumpet : people shall take bath in the shower of meteor and fire, they deserve it for God's time of mercy has gone.
2nd trumpet : mega explosion of super volcano (which killed fishes) and turned the third part of the sea into blood,
the 1/3 part of the ships destroyed indicating the following tsunami will travel across 1/3 of the globe with
such a massive destruction, imho the rest of the globe will also be striken by the tsunami like Japan's 2011.
3rd trumpet : God sent a deadly asteroid which breaks into pieces to bitter the water with radioactive content
4th trumpet : 1/3 of the Sun is darkened, the day will be like the evening
5th trumpet : This will happen at 3.5 years of the great tribulation
because the release of the angel from bottomless pit will kill the 2 Witness of God at the end of their testimony of 1260 days.
Rev 11:7 and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYah

Good post, but a correction: the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the week, making the first 6 in the first half of the week. Notice that a few seconds after the 7th trumpet the woman flees into the wilderness. Also note that Rev. 11:4-about 13 is written as a parentheses and has no bearing on chronology. The two witnesses are introduced 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint. Then John takes the readers down a side journey through the last half of the week where they are killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.

Then after the parenthesis John is back to the midpoint and says the first and second woe are finished and the 7th trumpet sounds, being the third woe. Not that the exact events of the 7th trumpet are a woe, but that the 7th trumpet is the signal for Michael to go after Satan and cast him down. Then the woe begins as The Dragon has great anger and goes after all who love God.

 

[iamlamad]

According to Paul, the kingdom of God is righteousness, and peace and joy in the Spirit. According to Revelation, the Son "hath made us kings and priests." The reign is now, and forever, as His kingdom is everlasting. Though Satan may prevail over the saints in his evil deeds, he cannot defeat the kingdom of God, of which we are already kings and priests.

Good post. Sadly most Christians do not understand the great authority God has given them, so anything the devil throws at them they just suffer through. Most Christians never talk to the flu or a cold, much less cancer designed from hell to kill them. Jesus taught us to TALK to our mountains! It may seem funny to some to hear someone talking to the flu, but then, those that do don't suffer with the flu!

 

[iamlamad]

Yes, I've very well aware of what all the trumpets are, I've down countless research on it, but you still haven't answered the question. How does the 7th trumpet different from the rest of the trumpets and what verse makes it obvious that the 7th trumpet is different from the rest of them? From my point of view, all 7 trumpets are trumpets of God.

Good point! The 7th trumpet does not bring destruction in and of itself: it is a MARKER. The 7th trumpet sounds in heaven to mark the very moment the man of sin enters most holy place in the temple and declares he is God. It also marks the END of the reign of Satan as the god of this world. It marks the END of the 6000 years of man ruling the earth, and marks the beginning of God ruling the earth. It is the signal Michael has been waiting for so many years: he will finally be able to kick Satan and his angels DOWN from the heavenlies.

 

[iamlamad]

The word "and" does not imply a sequence of events, rather an additional event. It simply means "also". As in, John also saw blah, not necessarily after the blah he described before.

And by the way, none of what you said answers the question I posed, which you quoted in your answer. How you can have all authority and power and not reign?

God is NOT a liar. He CAN'T lie. He already has His word out: the BEAST will get 42 months of authority to reign. He will not go back on His word. We certainly understand that the Beast has authority ONLY because God allowed him to have it! Certainly Christ has reigned since He rose from the dead. But He has NOT reigned over the world, because Satan is the present god of this world. Christ reigns now over His spiritual Kingdom.

 

[iamlamad]

Aren't all seven trumpets the trumpets of God?... Rhetorical question; of course they are.

Really? And all this time I was sure Angels got the trumpets and angels sounded them.

 

[iamlamad]

Where is your proof that the 7th Trumpet of judgment is "different" than the trumpet that Jesus returns at?

How about the entire book of Revelation rightly divided? Paul's last trump will sound just before the great earthquake of the 6th seal. It is not written in Revelation but a careful study will show that to be where Christ comes FOR His bride. John saw the raptured church in heaven shortly after. Paul's last trump will certainly be the last trumpet blast of the church age, for the age of Grace will END (the door closed) at the pretrib rapture. It will then be DAY OF THE LORD on earth.

The 7th trumpet is for sure the "last trump" of the trumpet series in Revelation, but there is no coming, and no gathering at the 7th trumpet. Rather, it marks the midpoint of the week. It will sound approximately 3 1/2 years before Paul's "last trump." JESUS sounds Paul's " last trump, while an angel sounds the 7th trumpet.

Now, what proof can you offer that they are the SAME?

 

[iamlamad]

The conjunction "and" does not prove that one event follows the other, only that he saw both events.



Parts of Revelation are of course in chronological order, but other parts are repetitive. The style of writing is called progressive parallelism and it was widely used by Jews at that time. Ironically, it is designed to aid understanding of a complex set of events. It repeats the story several times, but each time in less (or more) detail. This also helps the reader to remember key events, as they repeated several times.

Suppose you show us what parts are repetitive and let us critique.
Readers, there is NO PROOF of what this post says.

 

[iamlamad]

In Revelation 21 the scriptures refer to the new Jerusalem as a bride, for Jesus her husband.

Revelation 21
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

If you think God will marry a city, go ahead on! When the time comes, you will be laughed at.

 

[Echolipse]

Good post, but a correction: the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint of the week, making the first 6 in the first half of the week. Notice that a few seconds after the 7th trumpet the woman flees into the wilderness. Also note that Rev. 11:4-about 13 is written as a parentheses and has no bearing on chronology. The two witnesses are introduced 3 1/2 days before the 7th trumpet marks the exact midpoint. Then John takes the readers down a side journey through the last half of the week where they are killed just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial that ends the week.

Then after the parenthesis John is back to the midpoint and says the first and second woe are finished and the 7th trumpet sounds, being the third woe. Not that the exact events of the 7th trumpet are a woe, but that the 7th trumpet is the signal for Michael to go after Satan and cast him down. Then the woe begins as The Dragon has great anger and goes after all who love God.

I used to think this as well, until I noticed that the 6th Seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl all share the same similarities in events. This meaning that they all happen at the same time, which means the trumpets and bowls intertwine if not, are related to each other. So there is no way that the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.

Good point! The 7th trumpet does not bring destruction in and of itself: it is a MARKER. The 7th trumpet sounds in heaven to mark the very moment the man of sin enters most holy place in the temple and declares he is God. It also marks the END of the reign of Satan as the god of this world. It marks the END of the 6000 years of man ruling the earth, and marks the beginning of God ruling the earth. It is the signal Michael has been waiting for so many years: he will finally be able to kick Satan and his angels DOWN from the heavenlies.

Actually, Satan is kicked down in the 3rd trumpet. This is mentioned in the 5th trumpet. Satan has the keys to the bottomless pit, unlocked it and the smoke that comes out of the bottomless pit causes the 4th trumpet. Satan then possesses the AC and kills the Two Witnesses and commits the AoD and then all of Israel flees.

How about the entire book of Revelation rightly divided? Paul's last trump will sound just before the great earthquake of the 6th seal. It is not written in Revelation but a careful study will show that to be where Christ comes FOR His bride. John saw the raptured church in heaven shortly after. Paul's last trump will certainly be the last trumpet blast of the church age, for the age of Grace will END (the door closed) at the pretrib rapture. It will then be DAY OF THE LORD on earth.

The 7th trumpet is for sure the "last trump" of the trumpet series in Revelation, but there is no coming, and no gathering at the 7th trumpet. Rather, it marks the midpoint of the week. It will sound approximately 3 1/2 years before Paul's "last trump." JESUS sounds Paul's " last trump, while an angel sounds the 7th trumpet.

Now, what proof can you offer that they are the SAME?

Answered this earlier, 6th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl are all intertwined. The 7th trumpet is the last trumpet that Paul spoke of. There are no other trumpets that are spoken of in Revelation and the trumpets that are spoken of in 1 Corinthians and Thessalonians are the 7th trumpet.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Really? And all this time I was sure Angels got the trumpets and angels sounded them.

Is the sounder of a trumpet necessarily the owner of that trumpet?

 

[LastSeven]

If you think God will marry a city, go ahead on! When the time comes, you will be laughed at.

Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

First of all, this is what scripture says. These are not my words. This is direct quote from the Bible, so when I quote scripture and you mock, you are mocking scripture.

So I strongly recommend you stop mocking all of my posts. If you don't understand my position, then ask for clarification. Don't assume that I believe something ridiculous like that God will marry a city. Did you really think that's what I was saying? That God is going to marry a city? Really?

Obviously, I don't think God is going to "marry a city", but I guess I need to explain this a little more thoroughly.

We can see in that verse that John is comparing Jerusalem to a bride, that is undeniable. You can ignore it if you want, but you can't deny it. That comparison is right there in black and white. Scripture is making that comparison. Not me. The scripture says that Jerusalem is prepared as a bride.

So you can take that comparison one of two ways. You can either go the ridiculous route and suggest that the bride is a city, or you use your noggin and realize that Jerusalem (in this context) is not a city at all, but His people.

 

[LastSeven]

God is NOT a liar. He CAN'T lie. He already has His word out: the BEAST will get 42 months of authority to reign. He will not go back on His word. We certainly understand that the Beast has authority ONLY because God allowed him to have it! Certainly Christ has reigned since He rose from the dead. But He has NOT reigned over the world, because Satan is the present god of this world. Christ reigns now over His spiritual Kingdom.

Not sure why you're insisting that God does not lie. Did somebody say God is a liar? Anyway, I'm glad to see you finally admit that Jesus now reigns, but you still aren't ready to admit that he also reigns over this world. I think he does, but hey, don't take my word for it. Let's see what Jesus himself says.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Hm.. Sounds to me like he rules both heaven and earth.

As for the beast being given authority, that in no way requires that this authority is taken away from Jesus. The beast has authority over the people ("Rev 13:7 And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.") but he is still under Jesus, as Jesus has all authority.

The beast is like a department manager who has authority over that department, but still answers to a higher power. That higher power is Jesus. Don't kid yourself. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth.

 

[iamlamad]

I used to think this as well, until I noticed that the 6th Seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl all share the same similarities in events. This meaning that they all happen at the same time, which means the trumpets and bowls intertwine if not, are related to each other. So there is no way that the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint.

Oh no! Not you too. They are three separate events that happen at different times. And they sound NOTHING alike! How did you get pulled away from the truth? Did you not read that the 7 angels did not get their trumpets until after the 7th seal was broken? Did it just go over your head that John NUMBERED the seals, the trumpets and the vials? OF COURSE they must come in the order John put them in.

Now let me tell you a true story: I was reading Daniel 9:27, and when my eyes and mind got to the word "midst", God spoke to me in what sounded like an audible voice: "you could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of Revelation." I asked Him how I would find that and He answered: "every time I mentioned an event that will start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time. When you find the mentions of the 3 1/2 years, you will be very close to the midpoint."

First, this tells me there IS a midpoint in the book of Revelation to find. Next, it tells me the midpoint will be in chapters 11-13. It also tells me trying to rearrange Revelation is a big mistake.

Actually, Satan is kicked down in the 3rd trumpet. This is mentioned in the 5th trumpet. Satan has the keys to the bottomless pit, unlocked it and the smoke that comes out of the bottomless pit causes the 4th trumpet. Satan then possesses the AC and kills the Two Witnesses and commits the AoD and then all of Israel flees.

Actually Satan is kicked down in chapter 12, which is no trumpet: it is AFTER the 7th trumpet that marks the midpoint. The angel that falls and opens the bottomless pit happens at the 5th trumpet. How in the world could you have time backing up? NOTHING at the 5th trumpet causes something at the 4th trumpet. THEY ARE NUMBERED for sequence. Why would you even think that the Holy Spirit numbered them incorrectly? Satan is not kicked down until after all trumpets have sounded and his defeat is related ONLY to the 7th trumpet.


Answered this earlier, 6th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th bowl are all intertwined. The 7th trumpet is the last trumpet that Paul spoke of. There are no other trumpets that are spoken of in Revelation and the trumpets that are spoken of in 1 Corinthians and Thessalonians are the 7th trumpet.

Lamad's answers above in Dark red.
All I can say is, you are on the wrong road to understanding Revelation. I would start over if I were you. Always remember, ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong. Just read it as written and BELIEVE it as written? Why do you find that difficult? Why do you find a need to rearrange?It makes perfect sense as written.

Keep in mind, NO ONE EVER has been able to prove by scripture that Paul's "last trump" is John's 7th trumpet with scripture......for the very reason they are no related AT ALL. That is myth. They happen at different times and the trumpets are blown by Jesus Christ in one instance and by an angel in the other.

While I am at it, THERE IS NO COMING at the 7th trumpet. THERE IS NO GATHERING at the 7th trumpet. Why not just believe what is written there: the KINGDOMS change rulers: Satan loses and Jesus Christ wins. THAT is the 7th trumpet in a nutshell. Trying to add stuff that is not written will only get you into trouble with God Himself.

Just BELIEVE what is written: Jesus returns in chapter 19, AFTER the days of GT. This agrees with Matthew 24, so why not just leave it as written?

 

[iamlamad]

Is the sounder of a trumpet necessarily the owner of that trumpet?

Not necessarily: they were GIVEN the trumpets, showing us that they did not previously have the trumpets. Now, when we get to who SOUNDs the trumpets, on the one case it is an angel. But Paul calls the Trumpet Jesus sounds as "the trump of God." When it is written as "the trump of God" do you really think an angel will blow it? If so it would be "the trump of an angel." This was not written to show ownership, it was written as to WHO SOUNDS IT. No angel has the power to raise the dead. ONLY the trump of God can raise the dead.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

First of all, this is what scripture says. These are not my words. This is direct quote from the Bible, so when I quote scripture and you mock, you are mocking scripture.

So I strongly recommend you stop mocking all of my posts. If you don't understand my position, then ask for clarification. Don't assume that I believe something ridiculous like that God will marry a city. Did you really think that's what I was saying? That God is going to marry a city? Really?

Obviously, I don't think God is going to "marry a city", but I guess I need to explain this a little more thoroughly.

We can see in that verse that John is comparing Jerusalem to a bride, that is undeniable. You can ignore it if you want, but you can't deny it. That comparison is right there in black and white. Scripture is making that comparison. Not me. The scripture says that Jerusalem is prepared as a bride.

So you can take that comparison one of two ways. You can either go the ridiculous route and suggest that the bride is a city, or you use your noggin and realize that Jerusalem (in this context) is not a city at all, but His people.

It does not say that God married a city! The scripture only calls the city "adorned as a Bride." More, it only tells us HOW the city is adorned: beautiful, AS A BRIDE would be adorned. The city is not a bride, neither will God marry the city. John is only telling us HOW lovely the city is. I was NOT mocking scripture; I was mocking YOU. Why did I write what I did? Here is what you wrote:

"In Revelation 21 the scriptures refer to the new Jerusalem as a bride, for Jesus her husband."

You are completely wrong. you misread what it really says:

"2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

I disagree yet again, for even in this verse, Jerusalem IS A CITY.

Now, if you wish to back up and say, "I was wrong," we can go on.

 

[iamlamad]

Not sure why you're insisting that God does not lie. Did somebody say God is a liar? Anyway, I'm glad to see you finally admit that Jesus now reigns, but you still aren't ready to admit that he also reigns over this world. I think he does, but hey, don't take my word for it. Let's see what Jesus himself says.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Hm.. Sounds to me like he rules both heaven and earth.

As for the beast being given authority, that in no way requires that this authority is taken away from Jesus. The beast has authority over the people ("Rev 13:7 And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.") but he is still under Jesus, as Jesus has all authority.

The beast is like a department manager who has authority over that department, but still answers to a higher power. That higher power is Jesus. Don't kid yourself. Jesus has all authority in heaven and on earth.

OF COURSE All authority is given, but that does not mean He will take the 42 months of authority He has given the beast AWAY. He will ALLOW the Beast to have his 42 months. That does not mean Jesus loses His authority for that time. You must keep in mind, at this time, while I am writing this, Satan is STILL "god of this world." Although Jesus does have authority over the earth, He will NOT override Satan's authority he usurped from Adam. I could say it this way, the lease document for earth, given to Adam, was usurped by Satan: HE now legally controls affairs on earth. The human race, being a part of what Adam lost, belongs to Satan. The kingdoms are his to give if he chooses. Remember, he offered them to Jesus. We might say Jesus is a perfect gentleman and will not take something away from someone who has it legally.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Not necessarily: they were GIVEN the trumpets, showing us that they did not previously have the trumpets. Now, when we get to who SOUNDs the trumpets, on the one case it is an angel. But Paul calls the Trumpet Jesus sounds as "the trump of God." When it is written as "the trump of God" do you really think an angel will blow it? If so it would be "the trump of an angel." This was not written to show ownership, it was written as to WHO SOUNDS IT.

If an angel blows a trumpet which is owned by God, then the phrase 'trump of God' would be applicable in two senses: firstly, in that the trumpet is owned by God and not the angel, and secondly, in that the angel which blows the trumpet does so as delegated by God.

You have yet to show where Jesus himself is the direct agent of the blowing of a trumpet.

No angel has the power to raise the dead. ONLY the trump of God can raise the dead.

This is a red herring, because it has not been established that a trumpet or the blowing thereof is what actually causes the dead to rise.