Thoughts ...

[HeLeadethMe]

What does greater works will you do because he goes to the father mean to you?

It sure doesn't mean we will be greater than the Lord Jesus........angels already do greater works, at the Lord's bidding and by His power, not of their own. The Holy Spirit could not come until He went to the Father. There is no record of Jesus having been translated, for example, like Phillip was, and as believers can sometimes taste of this. Or of Paul visiting third heaven, or of earthquake opening prison doors, and don't know that Jesus was bitten by a poisonous snake and lived, or of testimonies of missionaries overseas surrounded by armed natives and the Lord miraculously protecting them....there are examples in both bible and in life. One day we too will be like the angels, and expect we'll do even greater, then.....look in Revelations at the things angels do.

When I think of how Jesus, the Son of the Living God, who was with the Father in the form of God, denied Himself and obeyed the Father, making nothing of Himself and became as a man........because He could have done MUCH greater works........like throwing Himself off the Temple and seen the Father save Him......or taking Himself down off the cross. Thank you Jesus for obeying the Father, for only doing what you saw the Father doing......that we could live to taste of your sonship and be likewise. We want deeper fellowship, so I pray, I pray you will teach us the deep lesson in this.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Why do we need to ascend when we are seated in him ...

I agree.........completely.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

I've not heard anyone suggest or say that we would ever be greater and higher than He or wanting to be greater than Him. I have heard being ONE with HIM, individually and collectively...the body of Christ.

He promises us many things throughout scripture and that we can enter into HIS rest from our toiling in the field for bread...and that HE would come and serve it up to us. He promises us entrance into his holy city, a well watered garden...a white stone with a new name that only the one who receives it knows.

This is not new age as you are thinking, but the very promises contained in scripture.

What does the sovereignty of God mean to you? Do you see two kingdoms or one?

PeaceJoyLove.........I can only reiterate the last paragraph of my last post, and think deeply on how Jesus was our example.

I hope I see sin and kingdom of darkness the same way Jesus and Apostles did........as Enemies. Because IN HIM THERE IS NO DARKNESS, and no shadow of turning.......He is sovereign because He is ABOVE all, that's how He is sovereign, ruling over all because He is greater and through His foreknowledge and power, etc. It is not because the kingdom of darkness is part of Him....or was the devil not kicked out of heaven by the cross......Jesus saying prophetically I saw Satan fall like lightning. I don't understand it all, but until Jesus and the cross, it's like the Lord tolerated sin and darkness.....but no longer, the appointed time came to deal with it, and He has cast it outside and disarmed as it were the works of devil and darkness.....and now calls everyone everywhere to repent.

I have even heard people suggest that we are to be in the form of God as Jesus was.....this is a misunderstanding of that passage, but as always the word tests our hearts.........in the last days many will come saying they are Christ.....because that is where this line of thinking is leading to, the end of it. No coincidence this has arisen in these days, it is another sign of the times. Jesus has the preeminence yes, as a son of man, and He showed us humans how to live as obedient sons by example......but I see people here doing the opposite of what Jesus did, by knowledge they are seeking to be as gods. Not to mention that Jesus is much more than just a son of man.......He is God Almighty, which we will never be. We are to grow up into HIM, as He lived on earth setting the example........seeking only to become as obedient sons and servants obeying the Father. It is for Him to lift us up in the end, not for we to seek to become as gods, while we live in these mortal bodies. Remember the mother asking Jesus to set her sons on His right hand and left in heaven I think it was.....and what did Jesus say.....it was not even for Him to grant.....and we want to seek this for ourselves??? Oy.

New agers and witches and "christians" or anyone can have power and real knowledge of deep things of (who?), oh yes, they can be as gods if they want to be, up to a point, it is real and possible, but sadly very short-lived for them and they will find themselves going where they dont' want to go in the end, if they dont' repent and renounce their god-ship and false gods, and turn to Christ Jesus.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Jesus saying prophetically I saw Satan fall like lightning. I don't understand it all, but until Jesus and the cross, it's like the Lord tolerated sin and darkness..

When we look at all the judgments upon Israel (which is a type/a son) to the point of being totally scattered to the ends of the earth because of their sin...God did not tolerate sin. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorah...

Jesus and the cross is the New Covenant, better WAY provided by God that reconciliation is possible by following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ. The cross we must always carry, high and lifted up...the rod of Moses in the a type...when the rod was raised, Israel had victory...when rod was dropped/laying on the ground, Israel was overcome by their enemies.

Remember the mother asking Jesus to set her sons on His right hand and left in heaven I think it was.....and what did Jesus say.....it was not even for Him to grant.....and we want to seek this for ourselves??? Oy.

(Bold for emphasis)
That section of scripture continues on with Jesus saying "is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father."

Jesus is seated on the throne at the right hand of the Father...all that is HIS is promised to us...but only if the Father chooses (many are called, few are chosen) to give it...it has been prepared since the foundation of the world...behold the lamb of God who was slain from the foundation of the world.

Are you saying God chooses no one? Is there not a promise to rule and reign with Christ?

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Our human mind thinks in the confines of time (hours, days, weeks, months, years) while God speaks eternal. So many perceive eternal to mean after we die. Eternal means lasting forever without beginning or end; valid for all time, essentially unchanging (hmmmm, like the Word of God)...a major (and wonderful) concept to grasp.

We are called, but not all chosen...and we are being called to obtain the glory of of our Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture tells us it is possible with God...
2 Thessalonians 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


About being chosen....

Matthew 22:14... many are called, but few are chosen

John 15:16

Ephesians 1:3-4

Isaiah 43:10

John 3:16...eternal life = doesn't mean only after we physically pass away...

John 6:40-41 ....remember last day=7th day of creation when God rested from his labours...and we are promised we can/will enter that rest In Christ...

Seeking all the promises of God contained in scripture. No one has added to that...and it is all about perception/perspective...we see from where we are at in the process taking place within us...

Are there not many things you can see in scripture (revealed by the Spirit) and hope to obtain to?? Have not those things you can see increased as you seek HIM? And have not thing that you once could only see, were not yet in your possession, but you held onto the hope and then they came to pass and you walk in them as your true experience? It is the HE must increase, "I" must decrease process in action by what our faith is bringing us to by the spirit working within, not of ourselves.

Does scripture not promise to bring that faith to completion? We must look at in the light of eternity as God sees = was/is/is to come since the foundation of the world was laid. And what HE is reconciling us to?? Never greater, more or higher than Christ, but totally ONE in/with HIM...individually and collectively.

Jesus prayer, John 17 is beautiful.

John 14:6 No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ...

 

[Aseyesee]

Our concept of who Jesus is starts as a seed until all our thoughts rest in being the truth he is; a growing up into the head in all things.

 

[mozo41]

we follow on to know ...

 

[HeLeadethMe]

This is the scripture I was talking about:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

I only seek to be like Him, holiness, Christlikeness , that is all. I do not seek to be given the highest place of honour now or in the hereafter, it doesn't concern me or ever cross my mind. And remember what is written about those who try to sit in the highest seat and end up getting moved down to the lower.

I'm just going to end with sharing these scriptures and that way if anyone ends up off track with any of your thinking, it will help you to know it. These are deceptive days for sure and I have found these it to be good armour and ammunition against the wiles of the enemy:

Isaiah 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Isaiah 40:25
To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.


Isaiah 46:5
To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?


Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Matthew 24:23-27

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[mozo41]

filthy rags ... and yet we would not cover ourselves with them if it was not needed ... I love how our brother folded them up and left them behind...

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

This is the scripture I was talking about:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

I only seek to be like Him, holiness, Christlikeness , that is all. I do not seek to be given the highest place of honour now or in the hereafter, it doesn't concern me or ever cross my mind. And remember what is written about those who try to sit in the highest seat and end up getting moved down to the lower.

I'm just going to end with sharing these scriptures and that way if anyone ends up off track with any of your thinking, it will help you to know it. These are deceptive days for sure and I have found these it to be good armour and ammunition against the wiles of the enemy:

Isaiah 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.


Isaiah 40:25
To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.


Isaiah 46:5
To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?


Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Matthew 24:23-27

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Behold, I have told you before.

Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Agree, listen to no man tell you such a thing. We are never to follow after a man...that leads totally away from Christ. For it is the Spirit and the bride who say "Come!" And all those that hear say, "Come!"...to the feast at the table already set. But not everyone can enter in...only those whom the Father chooses...

The 10 virgins speaks to this...5 are advised to return to the merchant to purchase more...who is our merchant?? Or those without the proper garment...

Ephesians 1:18

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Psalm 37:34 Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

Psalm 37:7 7 Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

These, and many other scriptures speak to truly eating from the right tree that is in the city/the garden/Promised Land...He has caused me to walk therein...Only HE can exalt us. No mind of man knows what that means, but only by the Spirit...that causes us to become ONE, no longer toiling in the field, resting at HIS table...Jubliee...eating only that which grows of itself, resting, no tilling...

 

[Aseyesee]

It's not what is in a question, it is that there even is a question; this is innocence, in a moment, or in your name, or something that is in the midst ... a place to remain, an even the son of man who is in heaven.

 

[Aseyesee]

The language of God becomes more and more defined to us, as the process of our soul being this language.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

The language of God becomes more and more defined to us, as the process of our soul being this language.

Aseyesee, how would you say repentance is involved as part of the process of our soul? I've been reflecting about how our hearts are involved in the process and not just our minds alone, ie, it is not seeing/understanding alone, but that the two need to go hand in hand together, both heart and mind. And scripture saying that it is by reason of breakings that we purify ourselves.

 

[Aseyesee]

Aseyesee, how would you say repentance is involved as part of the process of our soul? I've been reflecting about how our hearts are involved in the process and not just our minds alone, ie, it is not seeing/understanding alone, but that the two need to go hand in hand together, both heart and mind. And scripture saying that it is by reason of breakings that we purify ourselves.

God draws us farther and farther in …

Repentance is a means to an end, and what it is and how it operates as part of the process changes to us in relationship to the process that it is an integral part of (doesn't that sound redundant ...)

Here’s a start …

This is an encompassing question, one that narrows it down to who we are, pictured out in relationship to us as something found in the midst (what our eye becomes single on before it becomes our eye to us).

The language can be confusing as to what a heart is when not understood from the point of where one is at in the journey inwards.

The truth of soul and spirit is really one truth of self, but without the dividing of it, it never becomes this to us, as a two made one again (or in reference to our soul, three that become summed up in one (hence the kingdom of god is as a man who takes a journey). The heart as you are using it can me be likened to a seed, or a son, or the truth of self that our soul gives us to eat of based on an image, firstly (flesh/serpent on a pole) from outside of us, which then becomes this heart, or truth in our midst (or quite frankly, a needful lie).

The connection is found in the words … And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat … as to what the process is of the soul that leads to this being who we are in relationship to our father, which is this tree/self in the midst of us (which changes as to what tree becomes the one in our midst, one cause a scattering of who we are the other a gathering, but not before both the truths that these two trees depict become one to us (which you see in the city at the end of the book).

 

[Aseyesee]

God is perceived as an adversary when he leads us into temptation (or into a wilderness) like the children Israel said to Moses, what did he bring us out in the wilderness for, to slay us (of course the answer to this is a resounding yes (like God's answer for not striving with man was to slay them all, or the end of all flesh (they did not perceiving there part in a lamb they had sacrificed (and left none of till the morning (and what was not consumed, to be consumed by fire) as Noah did not perceive his part in the end of all flesh) and all this in relationship to their soul; until we come into agreement with our adversary (one way of seeing why our husband (first image/seed) must be dead, or we cannot be married to another.

 

[Aseyesee]

Remember ... God gives you what you see.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Thank you for your reply...........it is hard to understand, but I will try to give it a think.

 

[mozo41]

"God gives you what you see"

pray tell ... I have come to see this in part as have quantum physicists on some measured level , but i can't put this into words .... this reminds me of this one liner of yours which from memory went something like this

"What relativity is to soul quantum mechanics is to spirit"

 

[Aseyesee]

Thank you for your reply...........it is hard to understand, but I will try to give it a think.

It only seems that way to our soul (these are things the soul cannot contain, if it could, it would become measured, or something left over a day) which there are endless pictures in the bible of), it is the narrative that flows up out of us as one son, a truth we are married to, or one with.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Agree, listen to no man tell you such a thing. We are never to follow after a man...that leads totally away from Christ. For it is the Spirit and the bride who say "Come!" And all those that hear say, "Come!"...to the feast at the table already set. But not everyone can enter in...only those whom the Father chooses...

The 10 virgins speaks to this...5 are advised to return to the merchant to purchase more...who is our merchant?? Or those without the proper garment...

Ephesians 1:18

I'm glad for your agreement, though not many seem to think it is very important......however, it's the very first sign of the last days that Jesus warned us about in three gospels, so we need to be watching for it, I am sure. When He gave me that revelation my heart was overflowing with gratitude and praises to the Lord, to be given that insight was priceless and invaluable for this time we are living in. So whenever we hear anyone say they are Christ or that we are going to be Christs.....is a red flag to keep us away from the deception that even the very elect would be deceived by, if it were possible. It's essentially the philosophy of new age in our day, a page out of their book, as well as Hinduism and Buddhism........there is nothing new under the sun, it is ancient Babylon and Baal worship, and Tower of Babel rearing its head, and going even further back to the serpent's temptation in the Garden and Lucifer's setting himself on a throne above the stars, which was his fall.

We can follow those who are following Christ, as Paul wrote concerning himself. But we keep our hearts and worship for the Lord, like Jesus who entrusted Himself to no man knowing what is in the heart of man or potentially could be. But as long as anyone is speaking words of life, then yes we can certainly follow them, and should. The unity that the bible speaks about is the unity we have IN Christ and THROUGH Him, His Spirit, it's not the person-to-person unity that the world seeks after.