Thoughts on the temple in Ezekiel?

[JAS4Yeshua]

As I have over an hour commute to work, and a little longer of a commute home, I've been listening to the Bible on my drive. I'm currently in the book of Ezekiel. I must admit, Ezekiel is an interesting book to go through. The Lord uses some very descriptive, and dare I say "colorful" language to describe Israel and Judah's sin.

That aside, the Lord is currently telling Ezekiel about the temple that is yet to be built. The temple in which the Lord will dwell, in which I presume is after the Lord establishes His reign after the final judgment. The description begins in Ezekiel 40, and what is described is immense, apparently larger than anything that has ever existed in history.

In addition, as you continue through Ezekiel from that point, it speaks of the ritual sacrifices, and refers to them as "everlasting ordinances." He also says that everything He is saying will come to pass. In addition, when God first established the rules and regulations regarding the sacrifices, as well as when He spoke of them later, He always referred to them as "everlasting ordinances."

Now, we know that God does not lie. Therefore, if He does not lie, then the temple and the sacrifices contained in the temple will come to pass, and they will last forever. We also know that Christ came as the perfect lamb, sacrificed once and for all for our sins. From a casual glance, this would almost appear to be contradictory, but neither God nor His Word contradicts. This is why I post this thread, to hear what others have to say on the subject, what they may have learned in their own studies, and what God has revealed to them regarding future events, the temple of the Lord, the sacrifices, and the eternal sacrifice of Christ.

I'm hoping this won't be a debate, but if it does turn into a debate, the moderators are free to move this into the debate forum if necessary.

 

[cyberlizard]

don't you know that Ezekiel is describing a spiritual temple... not a real one. There will not be sacrifices as Jesus death put an end to all that didn't he... and why would we need sacrifices any - aren't they only shadows? And why would the festivals from Leviticus be kept - didn't Jesus come to finish the law so we don't have to keep it?


Steve

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

don't you know that Ezekiel is describing a spiritual temple... not a real one. There will not be sacrifices as Jesus death put an end to all that didn't he... and why would we need sacrifices any - aren't they only shadows? And why would the festivals from Leviticus be kept - didn't Jesus come to finish the law so we don't have to keep it?


Steve

You're being facetious right?

 

[SharonL]

This will draw a lot of different opinions - one that the Bible is literal, which I believe and one that is symbolic.

The arguement is that the Temple is within you - but then why are they preparing to build the 3rd Temple in Israel. To me, there are too many things that are literal for all of this to be symbolic, but it will be interesting to read all the different beliefs.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

don't you know that Ezekiel is describing a spiritual temple... not a real one. There will not be sacrifices as Jesus death put an end to all that didn't he... and why would we need sacrifices any - aren't they only shadows? And why would the festivals from Leviticus be kept - didn't Jesus come to finish the law so we don't have to keep it?


Steve

You're being facetious right?

This will draw a lot of different opinions - one that the Bible is literal, which I believe and one that is symbolic.

The arguement is that the Temple is within you - but then why are they preparing to build the 3rd Temple in Israel. To me, there are too many things that are literal for all of this to be symbolic, but it will be interesting to read all the different beliefs.

Yes, I do believe that cyberlizard was being facetious. Although that comment points out the very reason I started this thread. Unfortunately, I also think it is a topic that many Christians would rather avoid, because it doesn't necessarily line up with what they believe.

I, also, believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I also believe that God uses symbolism and parables, especially in the areas of prophecy. In the case of Ezekiel, though, there is absolutely no doubt that this was meant to be taken literally.

In regards to the third temple in Jerusalem, from what is described in Ezekiel, I doubt that the two will be the same. The biggest reason for that would be that the temple will be defiled by the anti-Christ. Ezekiel's temple will not be defiled, and the Lord will dwell in it. For that reason, I believe this is a fourth temple that will exist when the new heavens and the new earth are created, as described at the end of Revelation.

 

[cherokeehippie]

no, I believe it is literally the 4th temple (the third temple is the one antichrist defiles) but when Messiah Yeshua returns, a 4th temple is build...also New Jerusalem will descend and come down and touch earthly Jerusalem. I used to think the details in Ezekiel had to do with out in space somewhere until I got to go to Israel for the first time back in 88. I got to see the Dead Sea, the Temple MT. in Jerusalem, the Kidron, etc, and my mind was blown away when I read in Ezekiel how Living Water (Mayim Chaim) will flow from under the throne, the temple and descend down in the Kidron and goes out into the Dead Sea. See, there's no water that I know of flowing thru the Kidron Valley...also down at the Dead Sea it's barren, dead and salty, no fresh water or fish, etc...yet in Ezekiel it talks about the Dead Sea being turned to Fresh Water and fish and fishermen at the Dead Sea and flourishing...the desert will bloom. Scrpture c ame alive for me in Israel!!
If you read carefully, if I'm not mistaken, there are differences in the Ezekiel Temple and the previous temples...also, I think the sacrifice are different. Not all sacrifices had to do with sin, but also with thanksgiving, etc. I'm rusty on everything right now. Also, it could bethat the sacrifices will be more of a remembering sacrifice, not for sin, but as a picture of what Messiah did...There were certain sacrifices that were eaten by the families...a feast...
If you think about it, back then eating a lamb, etc was for special occasions, we have not only passover, but on New moons, etc..feasts occurred.

 

[Floatingaxe]

duplicate

 

[Floatingaxe]

When the Church is removed, the Lord Jehovah has 7 years remaining on his agenda with the Jews. There will be a return to the sacrificial system. One of the reasons we know that these are the last days is in the witnessing of the activities in Israel now.

There is a pre-fab third temple ready to go, to be erected quickly. priestly robes are being mass produced for the Cohens, the priestly tribe. The High Priest's garment is made and ready and waiting. His crown has been made and is ready.

Sacrificial implements long ago discontinued are now being crafted.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/WireStory?id=5320175&page=2

On sale now in Jerusalem: Priestly garments - International Business Times -

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Yes, I do believe that cyberlizard was being facetious. Although that comment points out the very reason I started this thread. Unfortunately, I also think it is a topic that many Christians would rather avoid, because it doesn't necessarily line up with what they believe.

I knew he was I was just jabbing him.

I, also, believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I also believe that God uses symbolism and parables, especially in the areas of prophecy. In the case of Ezekiel, though, there is absolutely no doubt that this was meant to be taken literally.

In regards to the third temple in Jerusalem, from what is described in Ezekiel, I doubt that the two will be the same. The biggest reason for that would be that the temple will be defiled by the anti-Christ. Ezekiel's temple will not be defiled, and the Lord will dwell in it. For that reason, I believe this is a fourth temple that will exist when the new heavens and the new earth are created, as described at the end of Revelation.

I believe it is literal as well. It is also described as the time period that the Lord is here and reigning on earth. See Zechariah 14. Verse 9 says "the Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name". Then further on it talks about the observance of the Feast of Tabernacles, sacrifices, etc..

Sacrifices for what I wonder?

 

[Tamara224]

...also, I think the sacrifice are different. Not all sacrifices had to do with sin, but also with thanksgiving, etc. I'm rusty on everything right now.

That's what I was thinking too. The OT is replete with examples of burnt offerings: sacrifices being offered to God morning and evening every day at the Temple and at every important event. There were burnt offerings, wave offerings, bread, oil, incense.

I think there is a lot more to offering sacrifices than just the sacrifice for sin. It was (is) a form of worship.

 

[AudioArtist]

I am confused. I have a very basic question: Why will sacrifices return when Christ is supposedly the final sacrifice?

 

[BereanTodd]

Yes it is obviously a literal temple and literal sacrifices yet to come. Remember though, sacrifices were never able to save from sin, the Bible is clear on that. However the temple and the sacrifices are a form of worship, and of devotion and dedication to our Lord, and worship and love and devotion to God are something that will never pass away.

Someone mentioned the festivals and that is the same. Festivals were never salvific, they are worshipful and joyful, and yes we know at least several of the feasts (tabernacles and passover for example) will be kept in the Kingdom.

 

[cyberlizard]

I know that Jesus was not averse to the sacrificial system as he directly told people to stick to it fanatically. I find it difficult that Jesus would go to such great lengths to promote Torah observance from the heart if he was then planning to overturn its relevance.

.

Another post earlier hinted at the items for the next temple in Jerusalem. Although he gave two links, I would like to offer a third link. The website is extremely Jewish as would be expected but it contains information and topical studies (as those to whom God has given to safeguard the oracles of God - so Paul says somewhere)... The material on the red heifer is excellent (but so is much of the site).



Steve

p.s. it is difficult for most christians as they have been taught something like this (on the whole)...

We are sinners.
Only blood can atone for sin.
Cows and various animal cannot take away sin.
Therefore Jesus had to die.
Jesus sacrifice brought an end to the law.
The early disciples then began to live as gentiles (practically speaking).
The early disciples no longer offered blood sacrifices.
They stopped being involved in the temple/synagogue system (except to preach about Jesus).
They started a new religion called christianity.
Jesus teachings were before the cross - therefore old covenant/testament and can be mostly ignored.
Now we live by faith, not by works.
Works are dead!
Salvation is only by faith.
The church effectively replaces Israel.
The (nice) promises of God move from Israel to the Church.
The Church is the new temple made of living stones (so we don't need a physical temple)....
I could go on.

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

I am confused. I have a very basic question: Why will sacrifices return when Christ is supposedly the final sacrifice?

That is a reason I started this thread, to discuss this question.

I agree with what others have stated about the sacrifices being a little different, not necessarily for sin. Although, there will still be blood sacrifices in the new temple. Unless I'm mistaken, blood sacrifices were atonement for sin. Therefore, it appears there may be some sort of sacrifice for sin. If this temple is the literal fourth temple, that God will bring down from heaven after Satan and death are cast into the lake of fire, then there would be no more sin, correct?

I have to admit, prophecy concerning end times has never been one of my strengths. I do believe in a pre-trib rapture, seven year literal tribulation, 1000 year reign of Christ, the final judgment, and then the literal new heaven and new earth where God will dwell with us. Beyond that, things get confused.

 

[BereanTodd]

Yet we are clearly told that the blood of bulls and goats could never atone for sin. The OT sacrifices were shadows to point us to our true need for God. They were however a form of worship and devotion, and it is that sense, in my opinion, in which the sacrifices will continue in the Kingdom age.

 

[J4Jesus]

Jason! Hi stranger.

I believe it is literal. After the church is gone the Jews will begin to sacrifice in the temple again. They didn't believe in Jesus and are still looking for their Messiah.

 

[cyberlizard]

The real question must then become... will sacrifices be offered in the Messianic age but not the Age to Come, or do we think they will be offered in both.

for those who really are looking for material and study on the sacrificial system, let me recommend this set by a Messianic Jew (Ariel Ben-Lyman). They are free to download (and also there is a pdf commentary to accompnay them). They can be downloaded here. (they are about 2/3 the way down the page).

For those struggling to reconcile Jesus with the sacrificial system, let me also recommend this study set by Tom Lancaster on Hebrews. Note the first three purely discuss the authorship, background, dating, etc, before getting into the nitty gritty (but they are required really).


Steve

p.s. I cannot recommend them highly enough - Ariel is one of my wife's favourite teachers (and that is something good to say!).

 

[JAS4Yeshua]

Good to see you again, J4.

From what I gather from my recent trip through Ezekiel, the sacrifices are part of the Age to Come, when God has physically come to dwell in His temple.

First temple, the Temple of Solomon - destroyed during the Babylonian invasion. The sacrifices were supposed to be carried out regularly, but the people didn't follow God's commands.

Second temple, rebuilt after the time of exile, destroyed around 70ad. The sacrifices were carried out. The Jews didn't recognize the Messiah when He came, though, and as Jesus predicted, the temple was destroyed and the people scattered.

Third temple. This one is in the planning stages, as links have been given in this thread. Once built, the sacrifices will resume until the "abomination of desolation" makes himself known, defiling the temple. This temple, along with Jerusalem, will be destroyed in the last days, I believe. They need to be to make way for the new heaven and the new earth of Revelation.

Fourth temple, as described by Ezekiel. This is part of the new Jerusalem, described in Revelation. It is where God will dwell among His people. Satan and death were already cast into the lake of fire. We shall live with God forever. Jesus will also be there, and the Jews will no longer be seeking their Messiah. It is this temple and this time that I am referring to. Sacrifices now wouldn't be foreshadowing the need for the Savior, instead they will be in remembrance. They will be sacrificial and worshipful.

Here's another thought. I can't think of any place in the Bible where it says sin will be destroyed. The power of sin was destroyed on the cross. The curse of sin, which is death, will be cast into the lake of fire during the end times. Revelation also speaks of those who sin not being able to enter the Holy City, but it doesn't make it clear as to the time frame being referred to. Could it be possible that sin will still exist? Remember, our sin most often comes from our own selfish desires.

Bear in mind, I just bring this up as a point of discussion, not saying that sin will exist. This is a matter of finding the truth of what we believe, based on Scriptural evidence, not by words and belief alone.

 

[J4Jesus]

Bear in mind, I just bring this up as a point of discussion, not saying that sin will exist

I didn't think it would exist. Our carnal nature will no longer exist and neither will the devil be around.

But I do remember a verse that says blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will never be forgiven now or in the world to come.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I am confused. I have a very basic question: Why will sacrifices return when Christ is supposedly the final sacrifice?

Not all sacrifices were for sin.