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Thoughts on Historical Creationism?

FaithfulPilgrim

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I found the article cited in the OP persuasive on the whole (exegetically speaking) and, having not read the book, realize there is additional support possible (outside the article), but the Genesis creation narrative is so controverted and vital that I would be interested in references to analysis claiming "Sailhamer is not interpreting the Hebrew words properly" and in why you claim "there is lack if support for the view" (the article alone included a great deal of support). Whether Sailhamer is correct wrt Gen. 1:1 vs. v. 2 is not something I am wholly persuaded on as of this writing, though his arguments (per the article)--including semantic ones--are well substantiated.

I'm pretty much with you.

Most of the critiques are that it is not really "historical" as Sailhamer only cites a medieval rabbi as the proponent of it. The book is written for popular appeal rather than true intellectual appeal. Therefore, critics say it falls as he just invented a new view.

There is also the claim that his interpretations aren't the traditional contexts in the Hebrew language.

Personally, the only deal breaker for me is that the 10 Commandments say that in six days, God made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. If Genesis 1:1 is just a summary of an event prior to the Creation Week, it would contradict the Commandments.
 
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Hieronymus

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And why exactly would God REPEAT something which He deemed "very good" (perfect) in the first place?
You'll have to ask Him. :)
But i place Genesis 2:8-25 on day 6 (because He created man and woman on day 6), and after that He saw it was all good.
 
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Speedwell

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Why should the Scriptures be any different than other writings of men? Gee, that seems like such an easy one for a believer to answer. The author of other writings of men were men. The author of the Scriptures is God, through His Holy Spirit.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
That's pretty funny, because there's another YEC on this thread (I won't name names, but he claims a degree in biblical literature) who argues that we should not treat the Bible the same as other contemporary writings of men because they did not like to let the facts stand in the way of good story, but God in his authorship of Genesis put primary emphasis on getting the facts straight.
 
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miamited

Ted
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That's pretty funny, because there's another YEC on this thread (I won't name names, but he claims a degree in biblical literature) who argues that we should not treat the Bible the same as other contemporary writings of men because they did not like to let the facts stand in the way of good story, but God in his authorship of Genesis put primary emphasis on getting the facts straight.

I don't honestly see the humor. He's saying exactly the same thing that I am. As pertains to the writings of men they may or may not have allowed the facts to stand in the way of a good story. I don't know. I certainly haven't seen any evidence to bolster that theory, but...

Yes, God's authorship of the Scriptures does absolutely mean that we can know that we know that God got the facts straight.

You'll have to be a bit more specific as to how exactly there is some contradiction in our two understandings. All I'm saying is that I have been taught, and I believe by a reputable teacher, that in ancient times people took a lot more seriously their responsibility to repeat things pretty much exactly as some account was given to them. There wasn't any internet or a lot of written accounts or instructions and so the only way that someone could pass on something that they knew or had seen or heard was to give an accounting to the next person in truth. I was told that people took it a lot more seriously to give an accounting as accurate as they had heard it.

Now, you, and your 'other person' seem to have some evidence that this is not the case. I have asked you for references. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim besides an anecdotal account of some other YEC that thinks people may not have been as serious about giving accounts to others that were as factual as they knew them to be or as had been given to them? I'm really not particularly swayed by 'some other YEC' who says such a thing without providing evidence to substantiate it.

Don't make the mistake that just because I'm a YEC, that everything I believe is just like every other YEC on matters outside of the Scriptures.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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miamited

Ted
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I'm pretty much with you.

Most of the critiques are that it is not really "historical" as Sailhamer only cites a medieval rabbi as the proponent of it. The book is written for popular appeal rather than true intellectual appeal. Therefore, critics say it falls as he just invented a new view.

There is also the claim that his interpretations aren't the traditional contexts in the Hebrew language.

Personally, the only deal breaker for me is that the 10 Commandments say that in six days, God made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. If Genesis 1:1 is just a summary of an event prior to the Creation Week, it would contradict the Commandments.

HI fp,

Agreed! It's also the backbone of my understanding of the six days of creation. People can reinterpret or guess or make claims that the account of the creation in the first two chapters of Genesis aren't clear and honestly, I might be inclined to believe that there was something that existed in this realm of creation before the first word of Genesis 1:1. But then God went and clarified it pretty well in the commandments that He made the earth and the heavens and all that is in them within the six days of the account.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Speedwell

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I don't honestly see the humor. He's saying exactly the same thing that I am. As pertains to the writings of men they may or may not have allowed the facts to stand in the way of a good story. I don't know. I certainly haven't seen any evidence to bolster that theory, but...

Yes, God's authorship of the Scriptures does absolutely mean that we can know that we know that God got the facts straight.

You'll have to be a bit more specific as to how exactly there is some contradiction in our two understandings. All I'm saying is that I have been taught, and I believe by a reputable teacher, that in ancient times people took a lot more seriously their responsibility to repeat things pretty much exactly as some account was given to them. There wasn't any internet or a lot of written accounts or instructions and so the only way that someone could pass on something that they knew or had seen or heard was to give an accounting to the next person in truth. I was told that people took it a lot more seriously to give an accounting as accurate as they had heard it.

Now, you, and your 'other person' seem to have some evidence that this is not the case. I have asked you for references. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim besides an anecdotal account of some other YEC that thinks people may not have been as serious about giving accounts to others that were as factual as they knew them to be or as had been given to them? I'm really not particularly swayed by 'some other YEC' who says such a thing without providing evidence to substantiate it.

Don't make the mistake that just because I'm a YEC, that everything I believe is just like every other YEC on matters outside of the Scriptures.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
I wasn't trying to substantiate my claim, just telling an amusing story. I don't think it would be possible to talk you out of the Doctrine of Perspicuity. I don't believe it myself--it's not something my church teaches, anyway (neither do the Roman Catholics, Orthodox churches nor Oriental churches like the Armenians, Copts, Ethiopeans, Syriacs, Chaldeans, etc.) Amongst Protestants any more it's only made a big deal of by YECs. You're welcome to it.
 
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miamited

Ted
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Hi speedwell,

Thanks. I'll stick with it. I'm glad I won't have to argue you out of it so that I can keep it. LOL I must admit that after 10 years of walking with the Lord and studying the Father's word, I still find it all pretty simple to understand. Putting it all into practice is the hard part.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Look Up

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I'm pretty much with you.

Most of the critiques are that it is not really "historical" as Sailhamer only cites a medieval rabbi as the proponent of it. The book is written for popular appeal rather than true intellectual appeal. Therefore, critics say it falls as he just invented a new view.

As the article does not cite a medievel rabbi to my knowledge (the article is of course not the book behind it), but does suggest that the view Sailhamer shares--at least in conclusions--was popular in the pre-modern era, I suppose a more rigorous analysis would require access to material I don't now have, but the above claim on the part of critics sounds odd (whatever the reasonable outcome). In my experience, Sailhamer seems to have some knowledge of the history of interpretation in some languages (including Latin, of course, but some other ancient and modern tongues as well). Then there are Sailhamer's actual exegetical arguments whether they are new or not.

There is also the claim that his interpretations aren't the traditional contexts in the Hebrew language.

I don't know what the above sentence means. I realize you are trying in summary form to represent the argument of others. I have not always agreed with Sailhamer in the past, but he is a keen observer of the Hebrew text and canon, and his observations seem usually to require careful thought. But neither have I independently confirmed the veracity of all of Sailhamer's claims and observations as represented in the article (I don't have the book), and one could perhaps argue that Sailhamer does not seem adequately to handle the possibility of semantic diachronic changes or to weigh adequately uncertainties when words are uncommon, though the book itself (as opposed to the article) may for all I know.

Personally, the only deal breaker for me is that the 10 Commandments say that in six days, God made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. If Genesis 1:1 is just a summary of an event prior to the Creation Week, it would contradict the Commandments.

I may understand your above claim, but am having a hard time translating wrt Sailhamer's apparently relevant arguments, e.g. wrt semantic arguments concerning Gen. 1:1 chronology, his discussions of "sky, land, and sea/water" semantically and regarding the repeated structure in days 1-3 and 4-6 (more or less) of the creation week; also Sailhamer does not see Exo. 20:11 (which notes the creation of "sky, land, and sea" or "the heavens, earth, and sea" rather than just the "heavens and earth" that 1:1 has) as alluding to Gen. 1:1, but to v. 2 through the end of the (first) creation narrative (first as opposed to Gen. 2:4ff).

You may be correct and/or I may have misunderstood you, but I don't see where or how your post here rebuts such Sailhamer arguments. Also, you may have Gen. 2:1 partly in mind, but then it would be reasonable also to rebut the following: "Genesis 1:1 cannot be a title for the rest of the chapter because there is a summary title at the conclusion of the thought unit begun in chapter one (Genesis 2:1)."
 
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alexandriaisburning

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Ok, then let's just take the word 'myth' out of our discussion and call everything that we would have normally in the past called a myth and just say 'truth'. When I look up the word 'truth' in a thesaurus, I don't find the word 'myth' as one of its reasonably similar alternatives. Now, the definition of 'juxtaposition' is:
1. an act or instance of placing close together or side by side, esp. for comparison or contrast.
2. the state of being close together.

Dictionaries reflect the current philosophical milieu because words and meanings change over time, so yes, I certainly wouldn't expect you to find "truth" as a synonym for "myth". However, I'm not arguing that "myth" is synonymous with "truth"; I'm merely suggesting that it is perhaps not necessarily "not" truth. Again, this goes back to my contention that the pejorative view of the "mythical" is not a result of the nature of "mythos" itself, but rather is a reflection of the biases which the modern mind has for the assumptions of historicity. Because our presumptions of the "historical" destroys the meaningfulness of any narrative that doesn't live up to the arbitrary modern standards of "happened-ness", our interpretive methodologies are therefore subjugated to the same.

Myth does not equal truth and truth does not equal myth.

Again, I never suggested that it does. However, my point is that "historical" does not, either. But this is the problem of modern interpretive methodologies; we are conditioned by our philosophical milieu to believe that the "historical" does, in fact, equate to truth. If it did not, apologists would not bother with trying to correlate archeological findings to "events" in Scripture. But because they have uncritically embraced the assumptions of modern philosophy, not only do they find it NECESSARY to make such correlations, but even more presumptuously they believe that they are somehow "establishing" something about the nature of God and the nature of the Scriptures by doing so!!

Personally, I believe that you have bought into this great and fanciful new age understanding that there is somehow a way that a myth can be true. Sure, one can use a myth to bring forth some truth, i.e., aesop's fables, but the myth itself is not true.

Why? What are the criteria for determining that the "myth itself" is or is not true? Historicity? If so, you have proven my point.

But, there is a part of our great and learned understanding today that seeks to blur that line.

To the contrary, the line is brought into sharper and sharper contrast by modern historical-critical methodologies.

Yes, I can see that. After so many discourses between us, you may not ever understand that. But, suffice it to say, that my understanding of 'why' God gave unto the Jew the Scriptures to be written down as His revelation of Himself to all of mankind, was for each and every individual to understand.

That's your personal understanding. There is precisely no reason to believe that this is a necessary feature of the Scriptures. You have to impute this assumption to your interpretation of the text. So much for letting it speak for itself...you have muzzled it from the beginning!

But, because our great and learned men of science tell us that this just can't possibly in any way shape or form be the truth, we then try to use the mental gymnastics to conform the wisdom of the Scriptures to the wisdom of man. We start explaining that, "Well, the account of the creation is obviously a 'true' myth! In this way we can make it conform to what our great and learned men of university education and the scientific method of man have shown us is 'really' the truth. It's a myth, but it makes truthful points...therefore, it is true!" Voile' LOL!!!

Notwithstanding your caricature of my suggestions, I nonetheless see nothing wrong with the conclusions of even the caricature. Given that we don't have inherent knowledge about "what" the Scriptures should say, there is no reason to assume that one interpretation is more valid or coherent than the other, simply on the basis of whether the interpretation produces a "literal" or "mythical" rendering of the narrative.
 
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alexandriaisburning

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How do you know that whatever biases I might bring to my reading are not pretty much the same biases that the ancient writers held, or more correctly, those who shortly after their being written, read them?

Obviously, I have no way of substantiating that. My opinions are based on my study of the wider range of ANE literature, and analyses of the common motifs within the same (of which many of the narratives in Genesis share common features, if not ancestors...). When you study these narratives within the broader study of cultural/religious/societal formation within these ancient cultures, it becomes pretty clear (at least to me and many, many others) that many aspects of their basic worldviews (how they understand reality, history, their place within creation, etc) is fundamentally different than what one would typically find within the modern, western world.

If you believe yourself to "think" like an ancient near-eastern person (someone who was uneducated, couldn't read, and knew only a tiny fraction of what we know about the world), you're welcome to that self-reflection. Based on what you've written in this thread, I would suggest that such a conclusion would be a self-delusion.

Other than setting up this false argument, and most certainly unprovable claim, that our biases are keeping us from understanding the Scriptures correctly, on what basis are you able to say with any certainty that my biases are keeping me from understanding the Scriptures correctly?

I never said they were preventing you from understanding the Scriptures "correctly". This notion presumes that there is an objective meaning that sits staticly within the text, just waiting to be uncovered. As I already wrote, I don't believe this. The "meaning" of Scripture doesn't like objectively within the texts, but emerges in the conversation between the writer and the reader. However, just like in our normal conversations, being able to the communicate with the "other" is key to shared understanding.
 
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miamited

Ted
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Hi aib,

You responded:
However, I'm not arguing that "myth" is synonymous with "truth"; I'm merely suggesting that it is perhaps not necessarily "not" truth.

Fine! So long as you understand that your claim is a suggestion and is, therefore, neither true or false standing on its own. I'm always willing to listen to and weigh suggestions, but then comes the hard part; determining whether there is any truth to the suggestion. Maybe the ancients did use the term with an understanding that it didn't mean 'not truth', but that leaves us with two 'facts' that we need to determine. Did they? And if they did, did they understand that the Scriptures were such an effort? Maybe someone could come up with some evidence that Plato understood the word 'myth' to not mean 'not truth', but then did Plato then believe that all mythical accounts were 'not truth'?

It's hard to argue double negatives, but I hope you understand my point.

You also responded:
Again, I never suggested that it does. However, my point is that "historical" does not, either.

It's fun to watch dogs chase their tail don't you think? They go round and round and round and round and never seem to get it.

You responded:
That's your personal understanding. There is precisely no reason to believe that this is a necessary feature of the Scriptures. You have to impute this assumption to your interpretation of the text. So much for letting it speak for itself...you have muzzled it from the beginning!

Ok! So, you don't believe that God wrote the Scriptures with the intent that every man should understand them. I'm ok with that so long as you also realize that's the same imputation I'm making only the flip side.

Finally:
Given that we don't have inherent knowledge about "what" the Scriptures should say, there is no reason to assume that one interpretation is more valid or coherent than the other, simply on the basis of whether the interpretation produces a "literal" or "mythical" rendering of the narrative.

As I understand the Scriptures Peter did teach that there is a wrong understanding of the Scriptures.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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miamited

Ted
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Hi aib,

You responded:
Obviously, I have no way of substantiating that. My opinions are based on my study of the wider range of ANE literature, and analyses of the common motifs within the same (of which many of the narratives in Genesis share common features, if not ancestors...).

Right! That's exactly my point. You can make your 'suggestions' all you like. You may even believe that those 'suggestions' are based on some sort of evidence, but I want to see the evidence. Your 'opinions' are based on your study of the wider range of ANE literature, whatever that is, but they are admitted by yourself merely your opinions. Good! You're entitled to hold your opinions and you're welcome to present your opinions, but be very careful when you go beyond that and make some claim that another person is wrong because they don't hold the same opinions as you do. You could be wrong!

Anyway, these mental gymnastics are tiring me so I'm going to switch over to TNF.

God bless you and all of your opinions. However, I would just ask that you give serious consideration to Peter's words. BTW, back in post #30 you made a claim.
Is this not precisely the same behavior against which Paul warns about?!?
I asked you for Scriptural reference of such a teaching and have not yet heard back from you. Do you have a response to that request?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Speedwell

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Hi aib,

You responded:


Right! That's exactly my point. You can make your 'suggestions' all you like. You may even believe that those 'suggestions' are based on some sort of evidence, but I want to see the evidence. Your 'opinions' are based on your study of the wider range of ANE literature, whatever that is, but they are admitted by yourself merely your opinions. Good! You're entitled to hold your opinions and you're welcome to present your opinions, but be very careful when you go beyond that and make some claim that another person is wrong because they don't hold the same opinions as you do. You could be wrong!

Anyway, these mental gymnastics are tiring me so I'm going to switch over to TNF.

God bless you and all of your opinions. However, I would just ask that you give serious consideration to Peter's words. BTW, back in post #30 you made a claim.

I asked you for Scriptural reference of such a teaching and have not yet heard back from you. Do you have a response to that request?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
No prophecy is of private interpretation...
 
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rjs330

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That's pretty funny, because there's another YEC on this thread (I won't name names, but he claims a degree in biblical literature) who argues that we should not treat the Bible the same as other contemporary writings of men because they did not like to let the facts stand in the way of good story, but God in his authorship of Genesis put primary emphasis on getting the facts straight.
I think you misunderstood me here. I was specifically answering a question that you made wondering why we should treat the bible differently than other ancient writings. I,made no,attempt to,
offer credence to your theory on other ancient writings. My answer was only,meant to place scripture higher than any other writing. It doesn't matter a wit what any other ancient writers may have or may not have done. The word of God is unique because it and the writers were inspired by God.
 
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rjs330

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I don't honestly see the humor. He's saying exactly the same thing that I am. As pertains to the writings of men they may or may not have allowed the facts to stand in the way of a good story. I don't know. I certainly haven't seen any evidence to bolster that theory, but...

Yes, God's authorship of the Scriptures does absolutely mean that we can know that we know that God got the facts straight.

You'll have to be a bit more specific as to how exactly there is some contradiction in our two understandings. All I'm saying is that I have been taught, and I believe by a reputable teacher, that in ancient times people took a lot more seriously their responsibility to repeat things pretty much exactly as some account was given to them. There wasn't any internet or a lot of written accounts or instructions and so the only way that someone could pass on something that they knew or had seen or heard was to give an accounting to the next person in truth. I was told that people took it a lot more seriously to give an accounting as accurate as they had heard it.

Now, you, and your 'other person' seem to have some evidence that this is not the case. I have asked you for references. Do you have anything to substantiate your claim besides an anecdotal account of some other YEC that thinks people may not have been as serious about giving accounts to others that were as factual as they knew them to be or as had been given to them? I'm really not particularly swayed by 'some other YEC' who says such a thing without providing evidence to substantiate it.

Don't make the mistake that just because I'm a YEC, that everything I believe is just like every other YEC on matters outside of the Scriptures.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
Ted, I'm the guy he is mentioning and it appears you and I are on agreement here. Speedwell has misunderstood me.
 
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Speedwell

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I think you misunderstood me here. I was specifically answering a question that you made wondering why we should treat the bible differently than other ancient writings. I,made no,attempt to,
offer credence to your theory on other ancient writings. My answer was only,meant to place scripture higher than any other writing. It doesn't matter a wit what any other ancient writers may have or may not have done. The word of God is unique because it and the writers were inspired by God.
Yes, I understood your post, but conveyed the sense of it poorly to miamited. I have to admit as well that even speaking as a Christian, I still just don't "get" your Bible doctrine. Yes, I know you're all Protestants and have to believe in Sola Scriptura, but still, it seems excessive to me.
 
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miamited

Ted
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Yes, I understood your post, but conveyed the sense of it poorly to miamited. I have to admit as well that even speaking as a Christian, I still just don't "get" your Bible doctrine. Yes, I know you're all Protestants and have to believe in Sola Scriptura, but still, it seems excessive to me.

Hi speedwell,

I can't actually speak for protestants, I've generally practiced my faith with baptist fellowships. But, I honestly think you misrepresent those who don't share your, and I imagine the teachings of your particular denomination, concerning the supremacy of Scripture over all things spiritual. It isn't that we 'have' to believe the Scriptures are the only instructions from God regarding the practice of faith and what we believe as the source of all truth about God, His Son and His Spirit.

It's a matter of a different worldview or, if you will, a different Godview. However, I'm a bit confused as to exactly how practicing or not practicing 'sola scriptura' would have any bearing on this discussion of the creation of all things in the beginning. Is there some other source that you believe we should get our truth concerning this specific issue?

Sure, I understand that 'sola scriptura' might have some bearing on one's understanding of the practice of baptism or communion. I can see where it might make a difference in one's belief about marriage and the proper way in which we are to understand Mary as having been blessed to bear the Son of God, but how does the understanding of the creation account differ between those who hold to 'sola scriptura' and those who don't? Please explain, if you don't mind.

Has the pope, or whoever is in charge of your particular denomination, offered some counter claim as to what you are to believe about the creation account? Has there been some bull or mandate from your denomination to tell you what you should believe regarding this issue?

Personally, I've never heard that not practicing 'sola scriptura' means that believers can accept the truth of the world. It's always been about accepting some 'truth' handed down through the 'church' or hierarchy thereof. Is it your claim that Jews in Daniel's day had some teaching from their rabbis and scribes that the six day creation account was not to be understood as literal? Even in Jesus' day, have you found evidence that the religious leaders of Israel taught something other than a literal understanding of the six days of creation? It honestly has always been my understanding that at least up until the days of Jesus, Jews, for the most part, understood the six days of creation to be six actual roughly 24 hour time periods in which God created all that there is in this realm. Do you have evidence that there is some writing outside of the Scriptures that addresses this and teaches otherwise?

What I've learned in my years and years of sharing on these boards is that it is a very, very common practice for people to make claims or attempt to obfuscate the actual issue by just saying things without any evidence to support what they say other than we should just take their word for it. I'm very careful about falling for such ploys. So, how, in your understanding, does one's belief in 'sola scriptura' have a bearing on this issue?

BTW, if you understood rjs' post, why did you convey it very poorly to me and could you now convey it to me the way that you actually understood it? It wouldn't have been that you conveyed it poorly to me because in that way you were more able to show how ineffective it was in answering your complaint, would it?

Do you believe that ancient people of God were more interested in telling a story than getting right the facts of the story? Keep in mind that the Scriptures only have about forty different writers, at least that we know of. So, is it at all possible that God was able to put together some forty people that felt differently about their story telling and through these some forty people had His Holy Spirit to impress upon them the great importance of getting the facts right? It isn't like the Scriptures were put together by thousands of people among the hundreds of thousands, likely even millions, who had lived upon the earth up until the days of Jesus and the new covenant writers. God seems to have hand picked only some forty people out of all those millions. My faith in the abilities of God is that He can cause His will to be upheld among those who are faithful to Him. What do you say? Could He or couldn't He put together some forty people who didn't practice the 'story telling' of others in those days?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Speedwell

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My goodness, what a lot of questions. I will try to touch on some of them.

As far as rjs goes, what I understood him to say was that it didn't matter what other ANE authors did (and he didn't, I think, argue the point very forcefully about what that was) but God did it His way, which was first of all to get the facts right. And no, I wasn't intentionally misrepresenting him in order to attack your views. I find your insinuation highly offensive. This is a Christian forum, and we should all try to behave that way, even though you have made it abundantly clear that you don't think I am a "real" one.

Do I believe that ancient people of God were more interested in telling a story than getting right the facts of the story? Yes, I do. I also believe that many more than forty people were involved in its composition--authors of various texts, the redactors who assembled them into books, and uncounted individuals participating in oral transmission.

It is my understanding that figurative interpretations of the Genesis stories have been entertained by some almost as long as the book has existed. Of course, until relatively recent times people generally generally took it for granted that the stories were historical as well, because no other information about our origins was available. The question is, to what extent did they believe that a literal interpretation was absolutely and positively essential to being a Jew or a Christian? I don't think either of us knows the answer for sure.

As for Sola Scriptura, it just means that the Bible is more important to you than to me, and it lays the groundwork for the belief that the purpose of the Bible is to give us an unbroken and accurate historic timeline from creation to the last trump, and that failure in that purpose any point reduces the whole thing to trash.

Make of that what you will. I am merely trying to answer your questions as best I can, and have no intention of "proving" any of it. No doubt you will consider it nothing but a perfidious attack on real Christians anyway, but I can't help that.
 
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alexandriaisburning

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Is it your claim that Jews in Daniel's day had some teaching from their rabbis and scribes that the six day creation account was not to be understood as literal? Even in Jesus' day, have you found evidence that the religious leaders of Israel taught something other than a literal understanding of the six days of creation? It honestly has always been my understanding that at least up until the days of Jesus, Jews, for the most part, understood the six days of creation to be six actual roughly 24 hour time periods in which God created all that there is in this realm. Do you have evidence that there is some writing outside of the Scriptures that addresses this and teaches otherwise?

I certainly am not (and I don't suspect Speedwell would either) suggesting that the "days" of the Genesis creation narrative should be interpreted as anything other than "literal" days (sun up to sun down, or whatever is the normal constitution of a "day"). The question is not whether these words should be interpreted literally, but whether the narrative itself should be interpreted as an "historical" narrative (in the sense of modern notions of historicity). It is not the features of the narrative that should be necessarily be interpreted literally or figuratively (e.g., I don't think we need to say that "day" is "1000 years", or "1000000 years" or "an age"), but rather the framework in which it is written. That is, did the authors have modern notions of historicity in mind when composing this, and thus perceived it to be an accurate and evidence-based accounting of "what happened, in actuality" ('happened-ness' and 'actuality', of course, being based on the assumptions of modern criteria)? Or, as I would suggest, is this a narrative composed that has theological instruction as its main intention?

If the former is assumption, it would stand in remarkable contrast to the other creation narratives that were extant at the time of the writing of Genesis, narratives from which many features were clearly borrowed. Does this, then, mean that all other ANE creation narratives were also attempts at "historical" narrative? And if so, should we not also consider them to be (at least in part) "inspired" as well, given that they contributed to the structure and content of the Genesis narratives?

Do you believe that ancient people of God were more interested in telling a story than getting right the facts of the story?

I don't think it's an issue of one or the other, as if they understood themselves as "not" getting the facts of the story right. This criteria betrays a very modern notion of historicity, a notion which places value in narrative when it corresponds to modern notions about the verifiability and demonstrability of recorded history. If the ancient writers did not share such stark bifurcations in their understanding of "history" and "story-telling", then such a question really becomes inappropriate to ask, as the assumptions necessary for the relevance of the question requires the adoption of philosophical paradigms for which there is no evidence that they existed at the time of the authorship of Scripture.

Keep in mind that the Scriptures only have about forty different writers, at least that we know of.

That is not accurate. A more accurate way of saying it is that Scripture is *attributed* to about this many writers. If you review the scholarship on the subject of biblical authorship, the actual number of probable authors and contributors is significantly greater than that (not even including the editorial contributions that would certainly have been included).

So, is it at all possible that God was able to put together some forty people that felt differently about their story telling and through these some forty people had His Holy Spirit to impress upon them the great importance of getting the facts right?

No one is suggesting that this isn't possible. The issue is that there is no reason, based on the context in which the authorship of the Scriptures occurred (particularly of the most ancient parts), to assume that this would be a relevant feature. Of course it's possible; but an analysis of the text in the greater context of ANE literature suggests a different conclusion.

Could He or couldn't He put together some forty people who didn't practice the 'story telling' of others in those days?

Again, the question of whether or not God "could have done" something is irrelevant. God could have inspired the authors to write nothing but soup recipes as well.

We are talking about taking the full measure of the narratives in light of the greater context of ANE literature/culture/worldview. While the Scriptures certainly *could* be a completely novel and anomalous occurrence within the broader milieu of ancient life, one would have to question why that assumption should be made. After all, the writing of the Scriptures was not made in a vacuum, and was not made just for the sake of unnamed future generations. No, it was written in the life and times of people who had specific worldviews, assumptions about the nature of reality, ideas about God, etc. If the Scriptures do not, in the very first case, present themselves as relevant within the situation of *those* people, then I would suggest we should be quite skeptical about the result of our interpretations. Unless the people of Israel held to drastically divergent worldviews from the cultures by which they were surrounded, I would suggest that we should suspect that the literature of the people of Israel would look a lot like the religious/theological/cultural literature of the surrounding cultures. And as I've already pointed out now several times, an analysis and comparison of the ancient texts of the Scriptures with similar narratives and theological/religious writings in the broader spectrum of ANE literature suggests that this is, in fact, precisely the case.
 
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