Thoughts on feminism?

I actually think the lack of respect and treatment as women as being less than man is part of the sin revealed in the Bible. Jesus made it a point to speak to and treat women with respect and as equals during his life in a world that treated women as being beneath men...sort of less of a human...only slightly above slaves. The Prov 31 is an equal to man in every way and it is counted as an honor to her husband.

I always thought feminism was supposed to be "lady like": modest, reserved, decent, a virtuous woman.

I guess Hollywood and it's celebrities have desensitized society with it's hidden agendas. It's sad to see celebrities set the "attitude/tone/morality" for the next generation.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Not so. Most people on earth admit and agree that they do not.

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By "everyone" I meant everyone who is Christian, it's called context.

Zoii said:

Isn't everyone feminist these days? - If not all I can say is - Come out of the dark ages

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I'd say a lot of people today don't know what modern feminism is all about. They may not know that being a modern feminist means you care about things like rape culture, sexual assault including domestic violence against both men and women, the alarming male suicide rate and prevalence of untreated mental health issues in men due to toxic masculinity.

rubbish

(release the hounds)

morse86 said:

I always thought feminism was supposed to be "lady like": modest, reserved, decent, a virtuous woman.

I guess Hollywood and it's celebrities have desensitized society with it's hidden agendas. It's sad to see celebrities set the "attitude/tone/morality" for the next generation.

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The word you are looking for is "feminine". Not the same as feminism.

SnowyMacie said:

I'd say a lot of people today don't know what modern feminism is all about. They may not know that being a modern feminist means you care about things like rape culture, sexual assault including domestic violence against both men and women, the alarming male suicide rate and prevalence of untreated mental health issues in men due to toxic masculinity.

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Masculinity isn't "toxic" nor is it the opposite of feminism. It does not mean that male are better or higher than women. I personally think a man with a healthy sense of masculinity is likely mentally healthier than than trying to deny his natural male nature. However, rape culture and domestic violence are evidence of mental illness and not being anti-feminist. A truly masculine man believes in protecting and serving those weaker than himself and not in self-centered power.

Personally, I believe that the modern feminist is focused on finding oppression and weakness where it doesn't really exist and it believes women and men are not strong enough to behave correctly without their intervention. I tends to make women believe they are victims and not in control of their lives. However, to be in control of ones life means making healthy choices about your life.

blackribbon said:

The word you are looking for is "feminine". Not the same as feminism.

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No no no, let not the world satanic garbage collection system define our words for us. Feminine is Definition of lady like. Feminism is to be like lady like.


We need to look at the bible definition of what a GODLY WOMAN is. The bible definition, NOT wordly satanic theological scholars OR satanic hippie philosophers. We need the WORD OF GOD to define what a virtuous godly woman is.

blackribbon said:

Masculinity isn't "toxic" nor is it the opposite of feminism. It does not mean that male are better or higher than women. I personally think a man with a healthy sense of masculinity is likely mentally healthier than than trying to deny his natural male nature. However, rape culture and domestic violence are evidence of mental illness and not being anti-feminist. A truly masculine man believes in protecting and serving those weaker than himself and not in self-centered power.

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1) Toxic masculinity refers to a specific type of masculinity that is unhealthy for men, it is not calling masculinity toxic. Here's a good definition: Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits—which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual—are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away. The kind of masclunity you describe is a healthy sense of masculinity, toxic masculinity is talking about the men who put down those weaker than himself and his only or main drive is self-centered power.
2) The reason why rape culture and domestic violence are feminist issues is due to the majority of victims being females and that it's often partially influenced by skewed views on gender. Yes, there are a lot of factors involved in these issues, but concern that they are a problem is what is a feminist issue. There are still people who think Brock Turner was in the right.

SnowyMacie said:

1) Toxic masculinity refers to a specific type of masculinity that is unhealthy for men, it is not calling masculinity toxic. Here's a good definition: Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits—which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual—are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away. The kind of masclunity you describe is a healthy sense of masculinity, toxic masculinity is talking about the men who put down those weaker than himself and his only or main drive is self-centered power.
2) The reason why rape culture and domestic violence are feminist issues is due to the majority of victims being females and that it's often partially influenced by skewed views on gender. Yes, there are a lot of factors involved in these issues, but concern that they are a problem is what is a feminist issue. There are still people who think Brock Turner was in the right.

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Can you please quote scripture using any of the old bibles using the textus receptus? I do not mean pulling verses out of context.....quote the entire chapter or context. Let's have it.

Rules:
1) Any of the old bibles. NOT any of the satanic bibles based on the recently discovere some guys basement codex scriptures.
2) Prove acccording tot he whole chapter/context, NOT pulling verses out of context (let's see what the verses before the verse you quoted say).

morse86 said:

No no no, let not the world satanic garbage collection system define our words for us. Feminine is Definition of lady like. Feminism is to be like lady like.


We need to look at the bible definition of what a GODLY WOMAN is. The bible definition, NOT wordly satanic theological scholars OR satanic hippie philosophers. We need the WORD OF GOD to define what a virtuous godly woman is.

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This used to be true and accepted.

Today, feminists and feminism are not what the Bible says nor what they used to be for all we knew and other Christians knew. For old times, i.e. we who like the truth and how feminism used to not be evil,
those individuals (both men and women) who are feminists or the like,
if we don't realize that they are today,
and that they are not what they used to be,
it will be not understood by 'society' around us nor by most of our neighbors who watch a lot of television.

These trends are not good for anyone, neither believers nor pagans, except that every day is one day closer to the end.

morse86 said:

No no no, let not the world satanic garbage collection system define our words for us. Feminine is Definition of lady like. Feminism is to be like lady like.


We need to look at the bible definition of what a GODLY WOMAN is. The bible definition, NOT wordly satanic theological scholars OR satanic hippie philosophers. We need the WORD OF GOD to define what a virtuous godly woman is.

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A virtuous Godly woman meets the definition of feminism...she is an equal human being with a man. She has a brain, is capable of working and serving, and needs both a personal relationship with Jesus and to accept Him as her Savior. Prov 31 shows what is considered virtuous...she is a good manager, can think for herself, can make money and product, while raising godly children. Her husband is admired because she is capable and not weak.

I don't know what is "lady-like". Wearing make up and spending time focusing on making herself pretty isn't godly (the Bible calls it vanity). Women didn't wear pretty shoes or pretty dresses in Biblical times...in fact, they wore long tunics that were not unlike the mens. I think having good manners is Biblically a characteristic of both Christian men and women. I'd hope both the godly woman and man would consider providing and protecting their family to be a priority in their life.

SnowyMacie said:

1) Toxic masculinity refers to a specific type of masculinity that is unhealthy for men, it is not calling masculinity toxic. Here's a good definition: Toxic masculinity is a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness; where sex and brutality are yardsticks by which men are measured, while supposedly “feminine” traits—which can range from emotional vulnerability to simply not being hypersexual—are the means by which your status as “man” can be taken away. The kind of masclunity you describe is a healthy sense of masculinity, toxic masculinity is talking about the men who put down those weaker than himself and his only or main drive is self-centered power.
2) The reason why rape culture and domestic violence are feminist issues is due to the majority of victims being females and that it's often partially influenced by skewed views on gender. Yes, there are a lot of factors involved in these issues, but concern that they are a problem is what is a feminist issue. There are still people who think Brock Turner was in the right.

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I see "modern" feminist (which I believe is a false form of feminism) too busy labeling people as "bad" and seeing women as victims of men harming cultures. They don't really see women as equals to men but both better and weaker at the same time. Nothing good is coming out of the modern feminism culture. It is harder to be a woman anywhere their influence is in control. It is harder to be a woman in the business world now that it was when I was first out of college (degree in engineering) 30 years ago.

"

morse86 said:

Can you please quote scripture using any of the old bibles using the textus receptus? I do not mean pulling verses out of context.....quote the entire chapter or context. Let's have it.

Rules:
1) Any of the old bibles. NOT any of the satanic bibles based on the recently discovere some guys basement codex scriptures.
2) Prove acccording tot he whole chapter/context, NOT pulling verses out of context (let's see what the verses before the verse you quoted say).

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It's not my job to prove anything to you, but since you asked nicely sure.

Scripture that condemns toxic masculinity
1) Jesus is not afraid to show emotions and vulnerability in scripture. Sure, it is at the death of a family friend, but it's still included in the story of Lazarus' death that "Jesus Wept" (John 11:35).
2) When Paul writes about the fruits of the Holy Spirit as opposed to the fruits of the flesh or our worldly nature, however, ou want to word that, he includes two things that I have heard pastors genuinely try to work around when talking to men, I'll bold them...
"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." (Galatians 5:18-23)
3) Romans 12. Romans is an entire theological essay about sin, the law, and grace. After he's written is peace to level the playing field between the Jews and Gentiles in the Roman Church, he begins his conclusion by saying that "here's what you do." He starts out by saying "Now that we can agree we are all Christians here doesn't mean we are all the same, but remain humble because we're all just different parts of the same body... "
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office..."
4) There are countless stories in the Old Testament of men who seek after their own will, I don't mean necessarily anything sinful but just their own desires for power and sex. They're "men's men." Their stories don't usually end well. There's a story at the end of Judges, in fact the entire book of Judges is just multiple stories of things not going well, that's masculinity gone wrong. The story is two chapters long so I'll quote it into a spoiler and just summarize it. Basically what happens is a man gets into a fight with his concubine and she leaves him. He gives her space, but then goes and gets her. On the way back home, he stops in a city and to show that he isn't welcome, the men threaten to rape them. He throws said concubine to them and they literally rape her to death. He returns home with the body of his cocubine, cuts her into pieces and sends those two leaders throughout Israel. It starts a war that nearly compltely wipes out the Benjamites. AFter they realized they nearly whiped an entire tribe off the map, including the women and children, they go and kidnap a bunch of women for the surviving Benjamites to have wives. This is the verse at the end of the story and the entire book of Judges..."In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Over time, the situation in Judges just gets worse and worse, the judges (or delivers) become and worse and worse until there is none, and that happens because everyone is just doing what is right in their own eyes. It's Judges 19-21
5) Other things... When scripture talks about how to lead and be a leader, "
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock." It denounces domineering and lording over, but promotes being an example and feeding the flock.

How Levitical Law Protected Rape Victims
There is an OT law, Deuteronomy 22:25-29 that demand a rape victim marry her rapist...

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

This text is very foreign to us, and a lot of people use that passage to attack scripture. However, in shame-based culture where a young woman's most valuable asset is her virginity, that's actually a very mercible law for the woman. If she cries for help being raped, he is punished because he has to pay her dowery, marry her and unable to divorce (in other words, he has to provide for her for the rest of her life), and she is protected from false accusations from him, which would result in her being stoned to death. That's only if she was not married or pledged to be married and it occurred in the city. If it's outside of the city, a married woman or engaged woman is raped, or it happens outside of the city, he is stoned to death.

blackribbon said:

Personally, I believe that the modern feminist is focused on finding oppression and weakness where it doesn't really exist

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I'm a teenager and a feminist - so I guess that makes me a 'modern feminist' to use your term.

Unlike you, I do not accept that domestic violence, rape, paedophilia, are things which don't exist (to use your words).

I am concerned for women who live in developing nations that suffer abuses such as child brides, honour killings, and inequalities within law. You believe that these women are simply 'finding oppression where it doesn't exist' but reports from crime agencies don't support your assertion.

Zoii said:

I'm a teenager and a feminist - so I guess that makes me a 'modern feminist' to use your term.

Unlike you, I do not accept that domestic violence, rape, paedophilia, are things which don't exist (to use your words).

I am concerned for women who live in developing nations that suffer abuses such as child brides, honour killings, and inequalities within law. You believe that these women are simply 'finding oppression where it doesn't exist' but reports from crime agencies don't support your assertion.

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I did not assert that they don't exist. However, considering the innocent song about early love has become accused to be a song about '"date rape", I do believe that this generation of feminists is finding issues where they don't exist. And it is ironic that the same generation that sexts and sends selfies of themself naked or various body parts...well, never mind.

How do you plan on changing other cultural practices by wearing pink "kitty" hats and marching in parades? Do not believe those issues are "feminist" issues but rather human rights issues that affect all humans.

I was talking more about the so called inequality in wages types of issues, and where they make fun of women who choose to stay home and raise their babies and drive their kids to soccer games.

blackribbon said:

I did not assert that they don't exist. However, considering the innocent song about early love has become accused to be a song about '"date rape", I do believe that this generation of feminists is finding issues where they don't exist. And it is ironic that the same generation that sexts and sends selfies of themself naked or various body parts...well, never mind.

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Here's something we both do whole-heartedly agree on, Black R. The thing is though, these young feminazis (not sure if that word is appropriate here). They WILL tell you that they feel they reserve the right not to be harassed, even though they are showing off certain body parts.

I recall an altercation a good male friend of mine had with some young feminist. It was so odd that she popped up on his feed. Apparently, it was "National Breast Cancer Awareness" month, and he posted a meme that said, "It's NBC month, so...please mammogram them and don't Instagram them!"

This girl, who apparently is some cosplay model/cosplayer in the geek/sci-fi community went off on him. He's a friend of a father of this woman. He's much older than this gal.

She's like "It's my body, I can do what I want with it without having to deal with the harassment" or something to the effect.

He was like "Woah, where'd this come from?! Calm down woman!"

ThisIsMe123 said:

Here's something we both do whole-heartedly agree on, Black R. The thing is though, these young feminazis (not sure if that word is appropriate here). They WILL tell you that they feel they reserve the right not to be harassed, even though they are showing off certain body parts.

I recall an altercation a good male friend of mine had with some young feminist. It was so odd that she popped up on his feed. Apparently, it was "National Breast Cancer Awareness" month, and he posted a meme that said, "It's NBC month, so...please mammogram them and don't Instagram them!"

This girl, who apparently is some cosplay model/cosplayer in the geek/sci-fi community went off on him. He's a friend of a father of this woman. He's much older than this gal.

She's like "It's my body, I can do what I want with it without having to deal with the harassment" or something to the effect.

He was like "Woah, where'd this come from?! Calm down woman!"

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It is quite amusing when people wear clothing that exposes or emphasises certain things for the whole world to see and then complain when it gets the desired reaction.

Certain outfits are designed to draw the eye, in some cases it's to a particular area or feature.

Oh well. I don't concern myself with the opinion of the terminally-offended anymore. Some folks are just convinced the world is out to get little ol' them and look for any reason to be offended. Pathetic really, but not much to be done other than laugh at their ridiculousness and walk away.

High Fidelity said:

It is quite amusing when people wear clothing that exposes or emphasises certain things for the whole world to see and then complain when it gets the desired reaction.

Certain outfits are designed to draw the eye, in some cases it's to a particular area or feature.

Oh well. I don't concern myself with the opinion of the terminally-offended anymore. Some folks are just convinced the world is out to get little ol' them and look for any reason to be offended. Pathetic really, but not much to be done other than laugh at their ridiculousness and walk away.

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Yeah, some are even digging back into celebrities earlier tweets because they are bored and are TRYING to make it newsworthy. And some of these tweets were something they ALREADY apologized for...and now..it's being re-hashed.

Comedian Kevin Hart stepped down from hosting the Emmy's because of it, he was tired of the crap.

and then complain when it gets the desired reaction.

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Exactly! And since they have social media followers, mostly males...they have a following, or fake backing of so-called "supporters" jeering that guy.

I think they are wanting to be a model and want men to appreciate their bodies as if they were a work of art and not a sex object. It's almost as if they were baiting men.

blackribbon said:

I do believe that this generation of feminists is finding issues where they don't exist

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The incidence of child sexual abuse, rape and domestic violence is more prevalent now than it ever has. These are things that matter to girls in my generation and they are most commonly perpetrated by men of your generation.

Your attempt to trivialise that, is a matter for your conscience to deal with.

blackribbon said:

it is ironic that the same generation that sexts and sends selfies of themself naked or various body parts.

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Whats ironic is it is not my generation that is exposed for its depraved acts - It is your generation.

It is YOUR generation that is being dragged to jail for child pornography, sexual assault, domestic violence, child grooming. It is NOT my generation committing those offences - Its YOURS.

On the rare occasions I have been to a Teen Chat Room, it's dirty old men from YOUR cohort that hound the teens with requests of sexting and wanting to be viewed masturbating their shrunken penises on Cam ... and its funny how many of them have IDs indicating they are good Christian men - does any of this ring a bell to you? Regardless the crime stats uphold all that I say.

And if its how we dress - well its you old guys that were hippies . . . enough said

So the irony here is that either you have forgotten those details OR you deliberately attempted to malign me and my generation in a vain attempt to deflect the undeniable facts reported by your local crime agency - rape, domestic violence, paedophilia, pornography.

blackribbon said:

How do you plan on changing other cultural practices by wearing pink "kitty" hats and marching in parades? Do not believe those issues are "feminist" issues but rather human rights issues that affect all humans.

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Well each will attempt to engage change according to their capacity. For my part, I am doing a science degree and am pre-law. When I grad law I will do a postgrad in International law.

But if the activist wants to wear a t-shirt to raise awareness...or just donate money... or maybe hand out pamphlets...that's all good...your attempt to demean those attempts at helping women who suffer is very undignified of you.

blackribbon said:

I was talking more about the so called inequality in wages types of issues, and where they make fun of women who choose to stay home and raise their babies and drive their kids to soccer games.

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This last statement shows you really have no understanding of what wage equality is. In western nations, a woman will receive the same wage as a man for doing the same job (mostly), but its NOT the case in developing nations.

Wage equality in western nations is more about the wage difference between vocations. A predominantly female role eg Child Carer; will receive a far lower salary than a predominantly male role eg welder. Now this has been reviewed statistically correlating work value with wages. Its not an out of date, ill-informed view from a grumpy old person. Its the statistical analysis of wage parity that has occurred in every nation.