work-value remuneration is pursued through industrial arbitration commisions with feminist lawyers seeking to get fair pay according to the designated work-value of the vocation. I thought this was common knowledge.
I'm not familiar with the situation in the US, so it's not common knowledge to me. Are the decisions of Industrial Arbitration Commissions legally binding? If so, then in my opinion that would constitute state enforcement.
Here in the UK, there are some lawyers trying to force supermarkets to pay their warehouse and store workers equally. I think it's fairly obvious that warehouse working conditions are significantly less pleasant than store working conditions (stores have to be pleasant, because that's where all the paying customers are). Due to the difference in working conditions, and also that warehouses often tend to be more difficult to commute to and from, I can understand why warehouse working is higher paid.
Tesco equal pay claim could cost supermarket up to £4bn
I'm not a lawyer, but from where I'm sitting, forcing employers to pay equally for jobs that appear similar, but have significantly different working conditions/environments, would be a flawed decision. I'd suggest that the only way such a decision could be reached is if the commission making the decision was stuffed with un-elected, right-on, PC types.
In my opinion, a similar argument would apply to your comparison of the pay for child carers and welders. Have you ever visited a welding and fabrication workshop? I'm going to guess probably not, because you'd have to be invited on a tour, or be an employee with a reason to enter workshops and in possession of appropriate PPE.
I used to work for an engineering company that had extensive welding and fabrication facilities. I visited the workshops many times, so I can tell you from first hand experience that they are fairly unpleasant places to work. Below are listed a few of the many factors that make working there unpleasant, and why welders deserve a high rate of pay for the work they do:
- In winter it will be freezing cold, unless you're very close to a hot area of the fabrication you are working on. In summer it will often be extremely hot due to the sun beating down, and all the heat generated by the manufacturing processes in use.
- The air is thick with particulate matter, from the various welding, cutting, and grinding processes. If you spend more than a few minutes in there, when you blow your nose later it will come out black.
- There are numerous hazards, such as risk of burns, risk of arc-eye, compressed gases, crush risk from heavy workpieces, overhead traveling cranes, electric shock from damaged cables, cutting and grinding equipment, and many more besides.
- Hearing protection is mandatory due to tools in use such as angle grinders, chipping guns, and plasma cutters/gougers. But it's a dirty sweaty environment, so you might get an ear infection from wearing ear plugs all day long.
- Eye protection is also mandatory, but wearing it doesn't mean you will never risk damaging your eyes and eyesight. When I worked there, one of the most common reasons for a hospital visit was 'foreign object in eye'.
- If you are working offshore most of the above will apply, and you will be flown to the worksite at huge expense by helicopter. The only way to make it economically viable is to live on the oil rig, doing a working pattern of long shifts, with 2 weeks continuous working, followed by 2 weeks off. Obviously that means you won't even see your wife/children/friends for 2 weeks at a time.
- All of the welding was for safety critical applications. The consequences of getting it wrong could be catastrophic.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the occupation of child carer, so perhaps you could be good enough to explain, in detail, the exceptional factors and working conditions that warrant much higher pay for child carers than they currently receive.
And another thing. Feminists hardly ever seem to mention the workplace fatality gap. Approximately 93% of workplace fatalities are men.
Gender Pay Gap? What About The Workplace Death Gap? | Investor's Business Daily
Feminists seem to want the same pay as exists for hazardous jobs and unpleasant working environments, but without being exposed to any hazards or unpleasant work environments. In my opinion, such a position just sows disharmony between men and women, but maybe sowing disharmony is the primary goal amongst those feminists who are also misandrists.
When writing something in the public domain, the poster needs to be aware that it is open to access. The user should elect to identify the author if re-publishing. So if, for example, you write a letter to the editor of a newspaper, this can be used and referenced by a third party.
What you are describing is appropriate attribution, citation, referencing, and avoiding the situation where you could be accused of plagiarism. And that is totally different from checking that you have the right to publish what someone has written. Newspapers are generally quite careful about only printing material that they have permission to publish. Typically they will state that 'Letters submitted to the editor must be clearly marked as 'For Publication''', or they may do it the other way around, by stating that 'All material submitted to the Editor is deemed to be for publication'.
You can argue all you like that when people post on a public forum that 'the poster needs to be aware that it is open to access', but that still does not absolve you from the additional ethical responsibilities that come with being a social sciences researcher. And from what you've previously written here, you do seem to consider yourself as some kind of researcher. Certainly anyone who copies material from CF with the intention of using it in some kind of social sciences project would fit that description.
Your proposal that quotations from CF will all be correctly referenced and attributed is even worse than I feared. Even without attribution, Google allows anyone reading your work to rapidly search for the original source, and adding a proper citation will only make that easier. Why would you want to risk a situation where someone comes on CF searching for the original author, finds them, and then engages in harassment and attempts to dox them because of the views they hold? You need to be aware that you are lifting material from a fairly quiet sub-forum of a little-known website, and there may be unpleasant consequences for someone who did little more than air what are often considered fairly mainstream views.
I looked on your profile page, and there does not seem to be anything there that suggests you are here to study other forum members, and nothing in your signature either. I think people have a right to know if you are using them and their posts for your social sciences project, and that you need to ask for permission before copying people's posts. Adhering to the principle of informed consent is just basic social sciences research ethics.
As I said before, if you want to do social sciences research, please enroll on appropriate courses of study, where you will be taught research ethics as part of your studies. Certainly no reputable university would let you engage with human participants until you have been appropriately trained in that area. And that training will include the importance of gaining informed consent before you start using your fellow humans as research material.
And if anyone's wondering, yes, I did recently post a poll here that gathered a small amount of data on people's current dating activity. But unlike Zoii, I don't intend to do anything with the data or disseminate it more widely. When asked what I was going to use the data for, I was totally honest, and responded with the word 'Nothing'.
On that note ,I shall not post further in this thread. I'm not here to inflame but to state alternative views to what were being expressed. I have achieved that.
Thank you all for the discussion.
That's a shame. I don't think the debate is anywhere near finished. Why don't you stay and respond to all the alternative views?
