Those Tormenting Locusts!

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blessedbe

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lared said:
Help......... they're everywhere!

What can we do about the locusts of Revelation 9:2-11?

What are they or who are they?

Do you feel their sting? Is it bothersome? How do you respond to them?


I shouldn't even reply to this thread, but I can't help it. I was appalled when I found out you actually BELIEVE that you are the locusts! When I read the JW version of that Chapter, I about fell over! How can you believe some of the stuff you are told??????
 
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Serapha

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lared said:
Help......... they're everywhere!

What can we do about the locusts of Revelation 9:2-11?

What are they or who are they?

Do you feel their sting? Is it bothersome? How do you respond to them?
Hi there!

:wave:

"We"... if you mean "me"... I don't do anything.... I won't be on the earth. Raptured, you know... I get spared God's wrath... and



lared, I know you don't believe it, but you can be spared from God's wrath also.


~serapha~
 
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GodsWatchman

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Pr 30:24-28* There be four things which are little upon the earth, but they are exceeding wise:* The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer; The conies are but a feeble folk, yet make they their houses in the rocks; The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands;* The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces.

Ps 78:46* He gave also their increase unto the caterpiller, and their labour unto the locust.

Their works are CONSUMED- that is - their works are BURNT UP. Good works - works of the Spirit in Love stand in the heat. They don't get "chewed" up by the locust. Remember

Flesh is as Grass - Grass is the locusts primary meal.

No doubt that the Locusts are a tool of God to "expose" the fleshly deeds of that last day "church/harlot". But Satan is a "tool of God" - and not something I would choose to show myself apart of.
 
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gort

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I shouldn't even reply to this thread, but I can't help it. I was appalled when I found out you actually BELIEVE that you are the locusts! When I read the JW version of that Chapter, I about fell over! How can you believe some of the stuff you are told????
??


Hello blessedbe,

enlighten us if you would please....enquiring minds need to know!


<><
 
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blessedbe

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According to the book "Revelation It's Grand Climax at Hand!" Chapter 22, the plague of the locust had fulfillment in the first century and the 20 century also. They say that the book of Joel describes a plague of insects, including locusts, that is similar to the one that John sees. It was to cause much discomfort to apostate Israel but would also result in individual Jews' repenting and returning to Jehovah's favor. The first century fulfillment came when the newly annointed 1st century christians were relentlessly preaching. " The individuals who responded received his favor to a remarkable degree. But to the ones who refused the invitation, the first-century christians became like a devastating swarm of locusts."...... "The "plaguing" continued until the "fear inspiring day" in 70 C.E., when Jehovah brought the Roman armies against Jerusalem to destroy it."

The 20th century Plague

"Reasonably, we could expect Joel's prophecy to have a final fulfillment in the time of the end. How true this has proved to be! At the Bible Students' convention at Cedar Point, Ohio, U.S.A, September 1-8, 1919, a notable outpouring of Jehovah's spirit activated his people to organize a global campaign of preaching. Of all professed Christians, they alone, recognizing that Jesus had been enthroned as heavenly King, spared no effort in publishing abroad that good news. Their relentless witnessing, in fulfillment of prophecy, became as a tormenting plague to apostate Christendom.---Matthew 24:3-8, 14; Acts 1:8
Revelation, written some 26 years after Jerusalem's destruction, also describes that plague..............."And the fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him......At Revelation 9:11, John tells us that the locusts have "a king, the angel of the abyss." Both verses must refer to the same individual, since the angel holding the key of the abyss would logically be the angel of the abyss. and the star must symbolize Jehovah's appointed King, since anointed Christians acknowledge only the one angelic King, Jesus Christ.
The account continues: "and he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the pit as the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun was darkened, also the air, by the smoke of the pit. and out of the smoke locusts came forth upon the earth; and authority was given them, the same authority as the scorpions of the earth have." Scripturally, the "abyss" is a place of inactivity, even of death.... The small band of Jesus' brothers spent a short time in such an "abyss" of relative inactivity at the end of the first world war. but when Jehovah poured out His spirit upon his repentant servants in 1919, they swarmed forth to meet the challenge of the work that lay ahead."


(from here out I'm going to selectively quote parts of the rest of the chapter because it is way to long to put all of it in here.....)

pg. 144 ".......the locust are to harm only those men who do not have the seal of God on their forheads, those in Christendom who claim to be sealed but whose record belies that claim. Thus the tormenting utterences of these modern-day locusts were directed first against the religious leaders of Christendom. How these self assuming men must have been tromented at hearing it publicly announced that not only were they failing to lead their flocks to heaven but they themselves would not get there!............pg 147......The modern day locusts had a job to do, the Kingdom good news had to be preached. Errors had to be exposed, Lost sheep had to be found. As the locust went about these tasks, the world was forced to sit up and take notice........(and finally!) "rather than announce the incoming Kingdom of God, Christendom's clergy have chosen to remain with Satan's world. they want no part with the locust band and their KING, concerning whom John now observes. "They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. IN Hebrew his name is Abaddon(meaning "destruction", but in Greek he has the name Apollyon (meaning "destroyer'). Revelation 9:11. As 'Angel of the abyss' and 'destroyer' JESUS has truly released a plaguing woe on Christendom.
 
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blessedbe

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GodsWatchman said:
No doubt that the Locusts are a tool of God to "expose" the fleshly deeds of that last day "church/harlot". But Satan is a "tool of God" - and not something I would choose to show myself apart of.


Yet they gladly align themselves! Believing Apollyon/Abaddon to be JESUS! they mistakenly think that since Jesus HOLDS the Keys to the Abyss, he must be the Angel OF the abyss!! Not so!! Jesus hold the keys to the abyss because he has total CONTROL over Satan. Satan can only do what he is ALLOWED to do! And when Jesus lets out the "locusts", they can only do what JESUS ALLOWS THEM TO DO! But the "angel OF the abyss" is Satan, and he is the "leader" of the locusts. He directs the locusts, but ultimately, Satan can also only do what JESUS ALLOWS.

It goes something like this. The locust are from the abyss, their "leader" is Apollyon/Abaddon(Satan), but Jesus "holds the keys" and decides WHEN TO LET THEM OUT for the plague. They cannot leave the abyss until Jesus unlocks them, and then they are only given limited authority.

Definately a "tool" of God!
 
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ukok

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i find it hugely confusing that Jesus is thought by J.W's to be the Archangel Michael and now the angel of Hell... i also find it difficult to fathom how you often complain about nothing being simply stated..like "Why isn't it clearly written that Jesus is God?"..and yet you have Jesus popping up in passages throughout the Bible that don't refer to Jesus at all...and yet you claim they do...odd that.


I would love for you to show me how Jesus is Abaddon and perhaps if we are really fortunate, the Archangel Michael. :)
 
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blessedbe

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Ok, my problem is not so much that you believe Jesus is Apollyon/abaddon, but that you believe you are the locust that come FROM the abyss.

Any reading of this particular chapter reads that Jesus lets out the demons(locusts) from the abyss to torment non-believers for 5 months. And it's pretty easy to see that at the end, it tells WHO their leader is---Apollyon/Abaddon. The Angel with the keys is NOT the same as the leader of the abyss, unless you want to believe that the locusts are not what they are.


You know what I find highly amusing?? The fact that everything in the book of revelation is taken as symbolic EXCEPT the part about the 144,000 in heaven. That is of course a LITERAL NUMBER! Why? If everything else is symbolic, why not this number? Everything before and after the number is symbolic also.

I read the book Revelation, Grand Climax at Hand, and I have to say, it's an engenious reading of the book! But about as true as the Seventh Day Adventists version! It must have taken a whole lot of thinking to come up with some of the stuff in that book.

This is part of the reason I am leaning towards the preterist view of the "end times". There is flat out too much contradiction and confusion in the book if it is actually a future event. Any person with a good imagination and a dotrine to uphold can come up with an interpretation of Revelation that fits their beliefs, and to an unsuspecting person, or a person who wants to believe, it'll sound good; reasonable, even.
 
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G4m

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blessedbe said:
Ok, my problem is not so much that you believe Jesus is Apollyon/abaddon, but that you believe you are the locust that come FROM the abyss.

Any reading of this particular chapter reads that Jesus lets out the demons(locusts) from the abyss to torment non-believers for 5 months. And it's pretty easy to see that at the end, it tells WHO their leader is---Apollyon/Abaddon. The Angel with the keys is NOT the same as the leader of the abyss, unless you want to believe that the locusts are not what they are.


You know what I find highly amusing?? The fact that everything in the book of revelation is taken as symbolic EXCEPT the part about the 144,000 in heaven. That is of course a LITERAL NUMBER! Why? If everything else is symbolic, why not this number? Everything before and after the number is symbolic also.

I read the book Revelation, Grand Climax at Hand, and I have to say, it's an engenious reading of the book! But about as true as the Seventh Day Adventists version! It must have taken a whole lot of thinking to come up with some of the stuff in that book.

This is part of the reason I am leaning towards the preterist view of the "end times". There is flat out too much contradiction and confusion in the book if it is actually a future event. Any person with a good imagination and a dotrine to uphold can come up with an interpretation of Revelation that fits their beliefs, and to an unsuspecting person, or a person who wants to believe, it'll sound good; reasonable, even.
blessedbe,

I've wondered about the symbolism of the 144,000 too. But what would the number be only symbolic of? What about the 12 gates of the new Jerusalem? Obviously they symbolise the 12 tribes and also the 12 apostles, but would you also agree that the city actually has 12 gates?

I see the same thing with the 144,000, the number itself is obviously symbolic, in that it is 12 x 12,000. However, wouldn't the number itself also be an actual amount of people?
 
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btony

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blessedbe said:
You know what I find highly amusing?? The fact that everything in the book of revelation is taken as symbolic EXCEPT the part about the 144,000 in heaven. That is of course a LITERAL NUMBER! Why? If everything else is symbolic, why not this number? Everything before and after the number is symbolic also.

Revelation 6:11 Each of them was given a long white robe and they were told to rest for a little longer, until the full number was reached of both their fellow servants and their brothers who were going to be killed just as they had been.

Here we find that they are told to rest until “the full number was reached”. Clearly, there is indicated a predetermined number that would have to be filled, and once filled they would no longer have to rest. We understand two groups to be spoken of here, with “their brothers who were going to be killed” not being “their fellow servants”, or with it at least being a subset of “their brothers”.

Why though does Revelation 7 break it down into twelve tribes? Unlike the number 144,000, we find that twelve does have a spiritual significance, signifying completeness. Examples of twelve being used can be found in the apostles, the loaves of show bread (Lev. 24:5), the stones Elijah took (1Ki. 18:31), the twelve governors appointed by Solomon (1Ki. 4:7), etc. Thus, broken into twelve tribes, as the literal nation of Israel was (though we do note that Revelation 7’s list of tribes varies from the original 12 tribes, hence the listing), we find significance in divine completeness.

 
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blessedbe

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Actually, I'm not saying that I think the number is only symbolic. I don't have a problem with the number being actually 144,000. But what gets me is that the JW's interpretation of the rest of Revelation is very very symbolic, I'm just not sure why they are so hung up on only 144,000 going to heaven when they don't seem to take anything else in Revelation literally. My guess is that the bible makes it clear that there are people in heaven and that goes against their teaching of us all living on paradise earth. So there has to be some who are good enough to get to heaven. But that leads to numerous other problems, like who get to go to heaven, and how do you know, and what happens if someone "loses" their annointment(which to me is a whole nother can of worms) etc etc.

I do believe that there are 144,000, but I think they are actually Isrealites, and men, and virgins, just as it says. And I don't think they are the only ones in heaven.
 
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G4m

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blessedbe said:
I do believe that there are 144,000, but I think they are actually Isrealites, and men, and virgins, just as it says. And I don't think they are the only ones in heaven.
But there is a fair bit of symbolism in their not lying and virginity. Not literal but deeply symbolic...
 
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