Thorn in My Side

[Halbhh]

The most powerful way to change the situation with another person is to your own gains inside, yourself. All people can grow and gain, so of course it's part of the wonderful blessing you can have as much as anyone else, but when you gain and grow, then she won't be able to relate to you the same way in time. Part of what is happening is that her weakness (wrong way of dealing with life traumas) is connecting to your weakness. But through Christ you can gain and gain, and then as you pray for growth and change and healing in yourself, day after day, such as by praying the Lord's prayer (which you know is perfectly following God's will and so you can pray it with the required total belief), and then adding special requests such as (from my own personal life for me): "Father, change my heart so that I can forgive my neighbor fully" (my own example right from my own life in the last few years) -- you can get powerful change, growth, healing, gains. It's so wonderful, what Christ can do for us, when we take His words in more fully, and listen, and let His words change us.

I left out a part of what's helped us so much, though those two were crucial.

The 3rd thing is also to pray for her, such as by including her in the "our" as one prays the Lord's Prayer, so that she gets divine aid, and additionally some prayer for specific problems/old-wounds you see she needs aid from above to help heal.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I can’t trim the trees, but I know how I’d like it done because of where the cardinals nest and where the light hits my tomato garden.

I can’t dig up the front walk, but because I’m doing a project after, there’s a specific way it has to happen.

I can’t mow the lawn, but I tell my husband where to mow and where to not.

Just last week I had bags of dirt and compost in the car. He went to unload them and open them into our wheelbarrow, but I said it would be easier if he could do one bag of each dumped together at a time so I could mix it better.

I can’t get the vacuum up the stairs, but I ask him to take them up the front stairs and not the back because the back stairs are soft wood floors and get dinged up fast.

Not at any point when I asked my husband to do these things did he say he was being micromanaged, that I was treating him like an idiot, or did he respond by being pouty for the day. He figured the job needed doing a certain way for some reason. Some of it he already knew the reason (like the vacuum up the front stairs) and he just said “yup, I got it!” and went along with his day. The other things he had no idea why I asked them done a certain way (the front walk) but figured I had a reason and did it that way because it’s what I asked and he assumed if I asked, I probably had a bigger plan.

Asking for help with tasks or detailing how yiud like them done isn’t treating a partner like a slave. It’s part of living with another person, taking care of property, and approaching life as a team. I do it to him, he does it to me, and instead of spending the whole day seething over being told how to do something we know how to do, we move along with life. When he showed me how to fold socks, I didn’t get all huffy that at 36 years old I’ve been folding socks for 25 years and I know how to fold socks and how dare he micromanage me. I just figured he had a reason and asked about it, and he did, and I changed how I folded socks.

The only real times there are issues is when one or the other of us tries to “micromanage” each other in the kitchen (“that looks like it’s not done,” “you put in too much salt,” “that’s not how I cook that”) and we do a “yes dear” and go on with what we were doing anyway. We both know we are type A to the extreme when cooking and just kind of let the other have their bossy pants moment. Ruining one of the finite days we have on earth together being pouty over him telling me how to cook chicken despite the fact that I’ve cooked more chicken than the Col. is a total waste of time that accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end.

 

[OK Jeff]

I bought her a riding lawn mower several years ago. The specific task at hand was moving heavy items formerly intended for decoration out of the yard. I was using machinery to lift and carry them away, being careful not to damage them as I’m 100% sure they’ll be back somewhere down the line. She would stand over me telling me how to hook onto it. She seriously could not do this herself. I finally told her to go to the house. She can’t see how I conclude she thinks I’m an imbecile. I’m less angry than I was this morning when I opened the topic. But this isn’t the first time we’ve had this conflict.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

It sounds like she was just making sure things didn’t get damaged and was trying to help in directing you on where to hook it for the same reason sometimes passengers in a car tell the driver when their side is clear before making a turn. It doesn’t seem like something one should internalize as an attack or interpret as being called an idiot.

Especially considering you had/have issues with rage/anger control/emotional moderation as well as effective communication with your wife and having your own “micromanaging” tendencies, it seems this is a symptom of that over-reaching problem. Even if she was micromanaging you, going on two days of being angry is a disproportionate response to what happened. You can’t control what she does, but you can control how you respond to it. At this point it isn’t her doing something to you that’s making you upset, it’s you keeping yourself upset.

 

[DZoolander]

lol - this is a funny topic for me - because my wife and I sometimes get into these types of discussions. So on the one hand I can see OK Jeff's point of view. I also can see TW's point of view - because it's what I've had explained to me on numerous occasions.

What I've deduced is that the difference between us is that she places far more emphasis on process than I do - whereas I'm only concerned with the end result.

(might be a bad example - but it's the first thing that pops to mind) -

If I were to ask you to help me with the laundry - the only thing that I care about is "did the pile of clothes that was previously in the hamper suddenly and miraculously end up folded or hung up - and clean?" That's it. 100%. I care not what the process was involved in getting from A to Z. It's the fact that they were once over there - now they're over here that makes me happy.

Now, I say it's a bad example because everyone's going to say "There's a certain way of doing laundry". Fine. I'll grant that maybe towels ought not be thrown in with bras (for some reason about abrasive textures vs. delicate textures). So there are some rules. But really - in the end - it's "was it finished" that I care about.

Dishes, same thing. Was the stuff in the sink put into the dishwasher and then put away? Cool. I don't care what the process was (unless I find food still on it after it's put away). If there's no food - whatever you did worked.

That's how I approach things. Hell, when I was single, I didn't even pay attention to the "rules" of laundry. Personally, I think most of that is a bunch of bunk...lol I did my own laundry for over 20 years. I started out believing that you needed to separate colors - in case things might bleed. I think in my whole life I've only had one item that ever bled. Eventually I came to realize that it didn't matter if you threw in the reds with the whites, 99.9% of the time they came out just as red and just as white as before. Throwing the towels in with the t-shirts and jeans made no difference. So I would pretty much just organize laundry piles into equal sized loads irregardless of what was in it - and was always good to go.

But, not gonna argue it, apparently bras and other things are different due to texture.

That's my take on it.

That's not my wife's take on it. Things have a process. They have a correct process.

So - for the sake of marital harmony - it's best to put off doing things until late at night after they've all gone to sleep. That way you get all the benefit of credit for having done the things - and none of the aggravation of being told you're doing it wrong

And for the things you must do in their presence - just do it how they like it and keep your mouth shut. lol

 

[OK Jeff]

DZoolander, I still do much of my own laundry. I have been asked not to do any other after the sweater incident. I was all my clothes together, in cold. I hang my shirts and jeans until they’re mostly dry, finish them in the dryer on low heat. She just shakes her head.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I guess I don’t get the whole “be thankful I’m helping you” attitude when it comes to doing things for your partner, or the attitude that says “if you need it done but I’m doing it, you don’t get to complain or tell me how to do it.” That seems so disrespectful and egocentric. If I ask my husband to take down branches from the tree and he takes them from the wrong side and knocks out my tomato garden, that’s not exactly helpful. If it’s time to mow and he mows through where I planted because he isn’t going to hear from me how to mow because he’s the one doing it and he knows how to mow, that’s not helpful. In OP’s case, if he moves the stuff from “her yard” but damages it in the process, that’s not helpful. You don’t know what you don’t know, so being told something so you can help your partner exactly as they need so you’re not creating more work for them seems like a pretty basic thing you would want to do anyway. I mean, if one hired a service to do these things, you’d tell them how it needs to be done and they’re professionals who do such things for a living, so why you can’t tell your spouse the same is just beyond me.

TBH the idea that you can’t expect a spouse to help you out and if they do, they’re doing you some huge favor and you have no right to say anything but “what time should your parade start?” seems more disrespectful to me. Things wouldn’t go well in my house if one or the other of us asked for a favor and was met with that attitude that says be grateful I did it and don’t you presume to tell me how to do it.

And if getting direction stresses you out, man, you’ve REALLY got to work on your thresholds. Especially if it’s two days later and you’re still stewing on it.

Like Zoolander said, if they’re there and “micromanaging,” just do it like they want it done and realize they’re just trying to be helpful and/or make sure the job gets done in such a way that it doesn’t create more work by not being done right. If they’re not, do it your way but prepare your “so sorry, should have listened to you speech” followed by their frustration over being ignored should things have not worked out.

To the laundry, the only sorting I do is white guest towels in their own hamper, cleaning rags and their own, and all else in another. We don’t sort lights and darks beyond the guest towels (guest towels are white and I can bleach them). The rags I separate out just because we don’t use paper towels and I don’t want wash rags that cleaned our toilet being cleaned with our clothes and food linens. Plus, they’re microfiber and will ruin clothes they are washed with. Beyond that... Whatever.

 

[DZoolander]

I wash everything in cold, too.

When I was in HS I bought this $120 sweater with my first $3.35 minimum wage job. Got to wear it one time before my mom washed it in hot or something and shrunk it down like 3 sizes. That’s when I started washing my own clothes lol

 

[DZoolander]

Well, towels aren’t part of the “everything in cold” deal though for full disclosure lol

 

[OK Jeff]

Yes, I am permitted to wash towels.
I once washed a load of laundry once which included the wife’s sweater. I washed it in hot, and tossed it directly in the dryer....high heat. It didn’t shrink a subtle amount. The oldest daughter was about 5 at the time. It was almost small enough for her. And that is the sweater incident.

 

[A_Thinker]

Micromanaging is annoying, but what sticks out for me is you hearing “you’re an idiot who can’t do the smallest task without I tell you how” when she tells you how to do something. That’s not what she’s saying when she tells you how something she needs done should be done ...

There's no way you could really know that.

I would say that it depends upon FREQUENCY and MANNER. There are persons who behave in this manner to control and to negatively affect their partner.

At the least, ... there needs to be some work on both sides. She needs to work on HOW to request assistance from her husband without making him feel that he is being demeaned or controlled ...

I would suggest joint counseling ...

 

[DZoolander]

LOL, towels, socks and underwear all hot and not together!

Okay, gotta ask, why not together? lol

Maybe women's underwear is different...but my boxers go just fine with socks and towels!

 

[A_Thinker]

Okay, gotta ask, why not together? lol

Maybe women's underwear is different...but my boxers go just fine with socks and towels!

My wife says that the towel lint will adhere to very fine textues, like those found in women's lingerie (i.e. satins), and age them before their time. Cotton boxers, OTOH, are impervious ...

 

[Enigma42310]

For us, if I need my husband's help with something I will specify how I would like it done..however I also tell him thank you and say things like "yay! Now that this is done I can do this, this and this!" I just show him appreciation. I think you can want things done in a certain way and tell your partner what you want without being bossy or disrespectful.

 

[st831]

I am a firm believer that we teach people how to treat us. This is especially true in women. Women have a natural drive to "test" their man. It isn't something they like about themselves, but it is a God-given instinct (if you will) to determine if her man is strong enough to take care of her and her family. Women are looking for a man who can respect themselves and stand up to them; because if we can't stand up to a woman, how will we be a protector. This "testing" never stops. It is part of life and part of being in a mature adult relationship.

How we lose as men: we retreat, lose our temper, go quiet, leave or sink into addictions...we show our weakness. Those are signs of a boy--not a man.

what we need to do is first, draw attention to the moment and commit to addressing the situation. Say something like, "Enough. I am going to go to the garage for a few minutes and then when I come back we are going to talk about this." While you are in the garage, cool down, and put your thoughts together. When you come back say something like, "okay, lets talk. New Rule..." then you set some boundaries of what is not acceptable for her to say to you. This isn't you being chauvinistic, it is you being a human part of a relationship.

Now she will probably test you again...she may even blow up bigger than you have ever seen. JUST STAND YOUR GROUND. She needs to know that you can handle her "storm." If you can handle this she will respect you. Stay there, let her talk. Let her get it all out and tell you how she "feels." This is where you can really show her you are a man and say, "you are allowed to feel however you do, But I have the same right. and this is how I feel...and if we are going to be in a relationship together you have to accept my feelings too." Alot of the things we feel, we never say--we think they should be obvious...but it is our responsibility to speak it. These are called "silent contracts"...and we are the only one's who know these imaginary rules that we have created.

Its not easy. A woman has the ability to shake our whole world with her "storm". But we have to be men who know who we are in Christ. This culture has shaken men so we don't know our place anymore. We have to get past that.

SOME GREAT RESOURCES (these are not Christian, but sadly, I couldn't find Christian material that address these issues.)
> THE NEW MAN - LISTEN TO THIS FIRST
> Knowledge for Men Podcast
> No More Mr. Nice Guy
>Book
>Sample Pages
>Audio

 

[Enigma42310]

There's no way you could really know that.

I would say that it depends upon FREQUENCY and MANNER. There are persons who behave in this manner to control and to negatively affect their partner.

At the least, ... there needs to be some work on both sides. She need to work on HOW to request assistance from her husband without making him feel that he is being demeaned or controlled ...

I would suggest joint counseling ...

Yes! You said what I was thinking but didn't know how to put into words. =)

 

[Dave-W]

For us, if I need my husband's help with something I will specify how I would like it done..however I also tell him thank you and say things like "yay! Now that this is done I can do this, this and this!" I just show him appreciation. I think you can want things done in a certain way and tell your partner what you want without being bossy or disrespectful.

That sounds delightful. My wife used to be a micromanager, not as bad as the OP, but has recently realized it was not being helpful. So she has dialed it back a good amount.

 

[A_Thinker]

She wants things done, she asks me to do it, then stands over me, micromanaging me, telling me every detail of how to do it. It drives me up the wall. Sometimes it’s downright infuriating. I’ve told her a hundred times,what I’m hearing is “you’re an idiot who can’t do the smallest task without I tell you how”. Yet it continues. Yesterday, after an afternoon of working in her yard, being talked down to, i came in and she handed me an air freshener, asking me to put the mounting bracket in it. I immediately begin examining it (its plastic so I don’t want to force it and potentially break it), after a few seconds she takes it away from me, and begins telling me how it goes together. By then i’d already figured it out BTW. I just left the room and turned on the TV. About five minutes she brings it to me, hands it back to me, telling me how to do it (which she couldn’t). I quickly slipped it together and handed it back without having said a word or looking at her. Clearly I’m still aggravated this morning. Last night I was sideways enough over it, I refused my “reward” for working in her projects. That’s very unusual for me. Just venting I guess.

So ... as a married man ... with a wife, ... I'll let you in on my experience.

My wife is a bit of an enigma, ... but. generally, she lets me do mostly everything I do ... without instruction, ... except drive.

She may, occasionally, advise me on how to do the laundry (or not), but generally, it's just the driving. Never mind that I do the majority of our driving, ... and have only had one accident (fender-bender with the other driver at fault) .... and one ticket in the 20 or so years we've been together.

I must get a half-dozen driving instructions on every trip, though this too is sometimes inconsistent. If she's busy with her phone, for example, I could drive to Timbuktu, and she would never make a comment. So, I've come to understand that it's just a reaction to her anxiety about being vunerable in traffic, ... and so, have come to learn to live with it. After 20 years, I've concluded that it's not going to go away ... and I handle it pretty well.

On occasion, however, I've had to back her off, ... as she actually can be distracting to my driving. This past Sunday, on the way to church, I was trying to figure out how to manage a tricky traffic situation (someone else was in the wrong lane), ... and she was practically yelling at me that I had a green light (of which I was aware). Problem is, ... I was more abrupt than I desire to be with her (though it may have been necessary in the moment) ... and it took us a minute to put it behind us.

So, I say all of that to say ... that there are some things you will have to learn to live with in being married to your spouse. As there are also things that your wife will have to learn to live with about you.

All that said, your situation sounds overbearing to me. I'd see if I could get a handle on how to manage it ... before it does permanant damage to your relationship. Do you think that your wife would agree to joint counseling ?

 

[Enigma42310]

That sounds delightful. My wife used to be a micromanager, not as bad as the OP, but has recently realized it was not being helpful. So she has dialed it back a good amount.

When my husband and I first started working on things I put bible quotes and parts of sermons about marriage around the house so we could both see them. I put this near my vanity area where I go every morning and night;
"It would be better for a man to be exposed to the harsh heat of the sun, wind, and winter on a roof rather than live with a quarreling wife in a big and beautiful home." Lol =)

 

[akmom]

I guess I'm still stuck on your examples, Tropic Thunder. Why can't you mow your lawn, or trim your trees, or dig your own walkway?

We all approach these scenarios with our own baggage, and my baggage is that I watched my mother nag my dad into doing a gazillion projects that she was physically capable of doing, but she got stuck into this mentality that men have to do all the work. It always annoyed me. I mean, if you need to use heavy equipment and your husband is trained on it but you are not, that makes sense. Or if you're on crutches, but your husband isn't. I mean, I ask my husband to do quite a bit, but I'd like to think I exhaust my options first. Some things just need to be dead-lifted and there's no real way around that, and he is considerably stronger than me.

It sounds like you have a healthy degree of mutual understanding in your relationship, where your husband doesn't feel you are making excessive demands, you defer to each other's requests, and appreciation is freely expressed. But that isn't the situation for the OP, and maybe it's because he has an attitude, or maybe it's because she's demanding and unappreciative. Maybe she should do it herself...