This Sunday: The Feast of Pentecost

[Lulav]

how do you decide when you start counting....

do you start counting from the sabbath which is the weekly sabbath after passover, or do you start counting from the sabbath which is the first day of the feast of unleavened bread.

my understanding according to the LXX is that counting is started from the latter (which is in keeping with the Pharisaic practise as well).



Steve

Why is that Steve, does the greek indicate that the first day of unleavened is an actual Sabbath? I see it for Yom Kippur and the first and last of Sukkot but not for unleavened. I try to keep more in kairate practice or original Jerusalem practice if I have to pick one. I think the church got the day right, but not the counting, and they didn't get the day right but studying the Torah, but just because it falls out on their 'Sabbath'. But in order to count seven full sabbaths plus the next day to be the 50th day you must start counting on the Morning after the Sabbath ends. I've tried but can figure out no way else to make it work out according to Torah. Have you seen a different translation?

 

[laconicstudent]

Thanks!

The Collect Prayer for Pentecost

O God, on this day You once taught the hearts of Your faithful people by sending them the light of Your Holy Spirit. Grant us in our day by the same Spirit to have a right understanding in all things and evermore to rejoice in His holy consolation; through Jesus Christ, Your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever. Amen.

http://crookedshore.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pentecost-small-1.jpg
​

 

[Lulav]

Oh? Your Bible doesn't have Matthew chapters 1 and 2 and Luke chapter 2 in it? I happen to be sufficiently grateful that my Lord and Savior humbled Himself to be born as a human baby and live as one of us to consider it a very special day. I agree that reindeer, with or without red noses, the decoration of coniferous trees, etc., are not prescribed in Scripture. On the other hand, I'll bet very few of the people who rail against Christmas allegedly not being Biblical build shanties in their back yard and live in them for a couple of weeks in August, and I'll bet none of them observe the ninth day after Rosh Hoshanah by making a detailed confession of their sins.

Which has nothing to do with the Feast of the Coming of the Holy Spirit, the Birthday of the Church.

Shanties? what is your problem? You are speaking of the second coming and all will be required to go up to Jerusalem and build a 'shanty' else you don't get any food!

No rain for you =No food for you

You should be sufficiently gratful and honoring to care when he was born and not put his day on top of a Pagan god's day.

Well you lost your bet. Many do as instructed and we do it publicly, not in a little box.

And no it doesn't have anything to do with the pouring out from the promise of Joel 2:28. But this was not the 'beginning of the church'. The beginning of the called out ones, started in the wilderness at the foot of the Mountain called Sinai. Look it up in the Hebrew, it's called ekklesia in Greek, which is what you translate as church. Kellilah in Hebrew, but Ekklesia from the LXX.

The promises were made for Shavuot to the Jews, that was all that were there that day, Jews from every nation, but still Jews, not gentiles. So I asked why are gentiles celebrating this as the beginning of their church when gentiles weren't brought in until about 10 years later and we really don't have any writings to pinpoint a specific day. However John tells us that the Word tabernacles among us, which gives a a great time of knowing when Yeshua was born and it wouldn't have been in winter, sheep were not outside nor were the shepherds in wintertime. Especially the sheep raised for the ritual slaughter in the temple. That was why these shepherds were chosen to be told by the angels, they raised the spotless lambs, who better to tell of the birth of THE spotless lamb!
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[cyberlizard]

Why is that Steve, does the greek indicate that the first day of unleavened is an actual Sabbath? I see it for Yom Kippur and the first and last of Sukkot but not for unleavened. I try to keep more in kairate practice or original Jerusalem practice if I have to pick one. I think the church got the day right, but not the counting, and they didn't get the day right but studying the Torah, but just because it falls out on their 'Sabbath'. But in order to count seven full sabbaths plus the next day to be the 50th day you must start counting on the Morning after the Sabbath ends. I've tried but can figure out no way else to make it work out according to Torah. Have you seen a different translation?

mmm... the text of Leviticus 23 refers to the first day of unleavened bread as a day on which you shall do no ordinary work, in effect a sabbath, ref1, ref2, ref3, ref4.

the Hebrew text does not specify which Sabbath is in mind to begin the counting from however, the LXX is a little more explicit, however, let me quote from someone else rather than myself, but the academic article won't let me cut/copy, so instead you would have to read the opening paragraph of page 7 from this link, 'counting the omer, by Tim Hegg' which argues conclusively for count beginning from the sabbath which is not the weekly one.


Steve

p.s. help that helps

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

http://crookedshore.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pentecost-small-1.jpg​

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I just wonder why Chirstian will celebrate this Jewish holiday?

They don't celebrate the other six feast of the L-RD Passover, First Fruits, or unleavened bread, nor Yom Teruah, Yom Kippur or Sukkot

So why do you celebrate the one in the middle? Shavuot?

We don't.

We have taken 'it' as our own and changed it.

They are NOT one and the same.

Forgive me...

 

[MariaRegina]

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[Tangible]

Whit Monday
The celebration of Pentecost continues!
​

(Perhaps the Collect prayer for today is especially apropos given the unfortunate and embarrassing turn this thread has taken.)

O God, who gave Your Holy Spirit to the apostles, grant us that same Spirit that we may live in faith and abide in peace; through Jesus Christ, Your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever. Amen.

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[FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif]"We for our part as men charge and teach you thus: do not make our building hay and stubble and chaff, lest we suffer loss, from our work being burnt up; but make our work gold, and silver, and precious stones (1 Cor 3:12, 15)! For it lies in me to speak, but in you to set your mind upon it, and in God to make complete. Let us nerve our minds, brace up our souls, and prepare our hearts. The race is for our soul. Our hope is of things eternal. God, who knows your hearts, and observes who is sincere, and who a hypocrite, is able both to guard the sincere, and to give faith to the hypocrite; even to the unbeliever, if only he give his heart, God is able to give faith.

"So may He blot out the handwriting that is against you (Col 2:14), and grant you forgiveness of your former trespasses; may He plant you into His Church, and enlist you in His own service, and put on you the armor of righteousness (2 Cor 6:7; Rom 6:13), may He fill you with the heavenly things of the New Testament, and give you the seal of the Holy Spirit indelible throughout all ages, in Christ Jesus Our Lord, to whom be the glory forever and ever! Amen."
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[FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif]Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 7.5[/FONT]


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[FONT=Garamond,Times New Roman,Times,serif][FONT=Garamond,Times New Roman,Times,serif][FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif]Prayer: [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia,Times New Roman,Times,serif] Guard me, O Christ, by Your Holy Spirit given me in baptism. Let me live in joy in Eastertide knowing that sin and death have been blotted out by the handwriting of Your Word that is for me. Amen.

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[visionary]

We don't.

We have taken 'it' as our own and changed it.

They are NOT one and the same.

Forgive me...

Mighty men... taking on something of God's... like one of His appointed times... and changing it... You are right they are not one and the same...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Mighty men... taking on something of God's... like one of His appointed times... and changing it... You are right they are not one and the same...

Well, this is what happens to them

KJV] Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them,
[Deuteronomy 28:26-28/Ezekiel 39:17,18]

 

[Tangible]

http://www.llpb.us/MP3Hymns/SeasonalPropers/338a Hymn, Rejoice the Year.MP3

Rejoice! the year upon its way
has brought again that blessed day,
when on the chosen of the Lord
the Holy Spirit was outpoured.

On each the fire, descending, stood,
in quivering tongues' similitude,
tongues, that their words might ready prove,
and fire, to make them flame with love.

To all in every tongue they spoke;
amazement in the crowd awoke,
who mocked, as overcome with wine,
those who were filled with power divine.

These things were done in type that day,
when Eastertide had passed away,
the number told which once set free
the captive at the jubilee.

And now, O holy God, this day
regard us as we humbly pray,
and send us, from thy heavenly seat,
the blessings of the Paraclete.

To God the Father, God the Son,
and God the Spirit, praise be done;
may Christ the Lord upon us pour
the Spirit's gift for evermore.

Words: Richard Ellis Roberts, 1906

Music: Aeterna Christi Munera, Veni Creator, Finnart, Beata nobis gaudia, St. Gregory

 

[Kristos]

Apolytikion in the Plagal of the Fourth Tone
Blessed are You, O Christ our God, who made fishermen all-wise, sending
upon them the Holy Spirit and, through them, netting the world. O
Loving One, glory to You.

Kontakion in the Plagal of the Fourth Tone
When the Most High came down and confounded tongues of men (Babel), He
divided the Nations. When He dispensed the Tongues of Fire, He called all
to unity, and with one voice we glorify the Most Holy Spirit.

 

[Standing Up]

mmm... the text of Leviticus 23 refers to the first day of unleavened bread as a day on which you shall do no ordinary work, in effect a sabbath, ref1, ref2, ref3, ref4.

the Hebrew text does not specify which Sabbath is in mind to begin the counting from however, the LXX is a little more explicit, however, let me quote from someone else rather than myself, but the academic article won't let me cut/copy, so instead you would have to read the opening paragraph of page 7 from this link, 'counting the omer, by Tim Hegg' which argues conclusively for count beginning from the sabbath which is not the weekly one.


Steve

p.s. help that helps

If, for example, the 15th of Nisan was a Tuesday, making one way supposedly to count off 50 days AND 7 sabbaths, starting on Wednesday, you'd find that it is impossible to do.

The only way to count off 7 sabbaths AND the 50th day after the 7th sabbath is to start on a Sunday, the day after the (weekly) sabbath. Not the feast sabbath.

ps I doubt that they all didn't know how and agree to do it accurately, but when some rejected Jesus Messiah and temple destruction, one finds certain changes mentioned in the Talmud.

 

[Standing Up]

The repentance and baptizing of 3000 persons (Acts 2:41): The bottom line of any Evangelization is the Holy Spirit, the person most important in our lives right now, as stated in 1Pet.1:2: God the Father already created us, God the Son already redeemed us, and God the Holy Spirit is the person who is now helping us to appropriate the merits of the redemption of Christ for the glory of the Father, for the good of his Church, and for our own good&#8230;
&#8230; We are right now living in the Era of the Holy Spirit&#8230; we can not acknowledge God as Abba-Father unless moved by the Spirit, and without the Holy Spirit no one can even say "Jesus is the Lord" (1Cor.12:3, Rom.8:15).

There's something really pointed about the fact that Pentecost (50th day of the Easter Season) derives from Shavuot (feast of weeks):

1. The one commemorates the sending of the Law, the other the sending of the Holy Spirit.

2. The one celebrates the first fruits of the Earth, the other the first fruits of the Spirit.

God's Plan is subtle, isn't it?

3000 died in the 'giving of the law' (Ex. 32:28)

3000 born again in the 'giving of the spirit' (Acts. 2:41)

 

[Tangible]

Interesting, SU. I hadn't made that connection before. 3000 died under condemnation by the law, 3000 died by grace to sin and raised to new life through baptism. Cool.

 

[Lulav]

3,000 died because of idolatry
3.000 saved by not believing Jesus was an idol

That is what is interesting, considering those of Judaism believe he is an idol.

 

[Lulav]

Whit Monday
The celebration of Pentecost continues!
​

(Perhaps the Collect prayer for today is especially apropos given the unfortunate and embarrassing turn this thread has taken.)

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For those of us that never heard of this, could you explain what Whit Monday is and what it symbolizes? I've never heard of this.

 

[Lulav]

We don't.

We have taken 'it' as our own and changed it.

They are NOT one and the same.

Forgive me...

Shavuot is the day believed to be when G-d Gave the Torah to his people

They could not follow it externally so he made the promise in Jeremiah 31:31

Shavuot After Jesus' ascension is the day believed to be the one when he wrote the Torah on the hearts of his people, as promised in Jeremiah 31:31.

31 Behold, the days come , saith the L-RD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake , although I was an husband unto them, saith the L-RD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the L-RD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So you changed it, what did you change it to represent?
I can't forgive you, only G-d can.

 

[Deut 5:29]

For those of us that never heard of this, could you explain what Whit Monday is and what it symbolizes? I've never heard of this.

It's just another man made non biblical tradition.
And we know how many times Jesus, and the Bible in general, warns us
not to get involved in that sort of thing.

 

[Deut 5:29]

We don't.

We have taken 'it' as our own and changed it.

They are NOT one and the same.

Forgive me...

Jeroboam would be proud of you.