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Excellent advice! I'm glad we have you on our side.Prov 14:12
12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death .
NIV
Prov 3:5-8
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the LORD and shun evil.
Praise God for both of your testimonies! What a beautiful example of the sanctification process that is inherent to all true believers in our Lord Jesus Christ. Sadly, Satan can and does use even some of God's own precious children to try and derail us from glorifying God. It is so terribly sad how often those who claim to support "tolerance" work so hard to try and cause their obedient brothers and sisters to stumble, defending and even encouraging sin. I pray you both keep on glorifying Christ in your lives, and hold strong to the truth of our Lord amidst all persecution.
In the case of a homosexual struggle, I can imagine that you must be attacked from all sides constantly. From those who cannot forgive a past that God has already forgiven you for, and from those who refuse to accept or encourage your obedience to our Master. Stay strong, brother!
Praise God.
If you want to read something even more "pathetic", take a look at the "Congregation" Section.
Out of 20 groups, only three are either "Fundamentalist", "Baptist", or "Reformed".
Tomorrow morning, people will be transubstantiating, consubstantiating, baptizing babies, listening to female pastors and priests, perhaps not even studying the Scriptures literally, and maybe even welcoming the riff-raff and the hoi polloi such as gays and lesbians, single women with children, women who have had abortions, Democrats, liberals and socialists and perhaps even the French* into their congregations!
One would think people would know by now that the churches are supposed to be the Exclusive Country Club of the Sanctified Elect and in particular, only conservative, fundamentalist heterosexuals (no one else need apply).
----------==========**********O**********==========----------
*It's bad enough that gays and lesbians, single women with children, women who have had abortions, Democrats, liberals and socialists somehow manage to sneak into the churches and spoil things for the rest of the "normal" people but the French! Why, they wouldn't even support the President when he decided to invade Iraq!
Ain't fittin'. It just ain't fittin'.
Perhaps. But where they contradict each other, they both can't be right.I can understand your frustration, but you need to realize that this isn't a respect issue. We see the world in two entirely different ways.
Tomorrow morning, people will be transubstantiating, consubstantiating, baptizing babies, listening to female pastors and priests, perhaps not even studying the Scriptures literally, and maybe even welcoming the riff-raff and the hoi polloi such as gays and lesbians, single women with children, women who have had abortions, Democrats, liberals and socialists and perhaps even the French* into their congregations!
One would think people would know by now that the churches are supposed to be the Exclusive Country Club of the Sanctified Elect — and in particular, only conservative, fundamentalist heterosexuals (no one else need apply).
----------==========**********O**********==========----------
*It's bad enough that gays and lesbians, single women with children, women who have had abortions, Democrats, liberals and socialists somehow manage to sneak into the churches and spoil things for the rest of the "normal" people — but the French! Why, they wouldn't even support the President when he decided to invade Iraq!
Ain't fittin'. It just ain't fittin'.
Do you have documentation for these facts, because I need to let my pastor know we have people in our church that aren't suppose to be there.
It is a very small church with maybe 100-150 people every Sunday, but I know we have at least 1, hmmmm come to thing of it it may 2 woman who had an abortion. There are several Democrats, and I will have to wait to next Sunday to count how many single woman with children are there so I will get back with you on that one.
Boy, will my pastor and church leaders be so shocked when they find out so many people that are coming to our church aren't suppose to be there.
Thanks so much for letting me know so I can get this info to my church leaders, and as soon as you can get me that documentation so I can show them, well that will be really great.
[/color][/b]Then I'd say you might want to speak to your pastor about this. After all, conservatives and fundamentalists DO say that George Bush is our "Christian" President and it is our Christian duty to support him.
Yup. Fortunately, reality dictates that the position with the evidence is probably the right one.Perhaps. But where they contradict each other, they both can't be right.
I got so many kind reps from this thread so I decided to pop my head back in for a minute. Just wanted to comment on a couple of posts.
Praise God for both of your testimonies! What a beautiful example of the sanctification process that is inherent to all true believers in our Lord Jesus Christ. Sadly, Satan can and does use even some of God's own precious children to try and derail us from glorifying God. It is so terribly sad how often those who claim to support "tolerance" work so hard to try and cause their obedient brothers and sisters to stumble, defending and even encouraging sin. I pray you both keep on glorifying Christ in your lives, and hold strong to the truth of our Lord amidst all persecution.
In the case of a homosexual struggle, I can imagine that you must be attacked from all sides constantly. From those who cannot forgive a past that God has already forgiven you for, and from those who refuse to accept or encourage your obedience to our Master. Stay strong, brother!
Most of this thread (and most of the threads in this forum really) cause atheists and agnostics to smirk and giggle, and I'm sure Satan is thrilled. But such rays of light as these two testimonies stand high above the muck and mire. Praise God.
Could it be that the passage in Proverbs that talks about a way seeming right to man, but in the end it leads to death, is speaking to exactly this? What makes a way seem right to man? Logic? Evidence? While the scriptures tell us to covet wisdom, they do not tell us to to base our wisdom on the"evidence" that the sinful world gives us. Rather, we are to have faith in the one who is bigger than the evidence.Yup. Fortunately, reality dictates that the position with the evidence is probably the right one.
Ah, but God dictates what the real truth is, regardless of what "evidence" anyone attempts to promote. My philosophies and your philosophies are meaningless if they are not in line with God's unchanging, perfect truth. That is ultimately reality.Yup. Fortunately, reality dictates that the position with the evidence is probably the right one.
Society and the fact that we now understand that people do have differing sexual orientations.. Cultural norms, and (cultural) expectations and purposes for marriage have pretty much overridden marrying who one really wants for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of history.
Excepting possibly in theology God doesn't inspire people to write outside of what they could understand, and their audience to get to grips with. God didn't inspire Paul to condemn slavery. God didn't inspire the writers of the Torah with a recipe for soap that would have made all that washing so much more effecive. God doesn't stomp on our humanity in that way.
They wrote (occasionally) about same-sex sex. They couldn't write about homosexuality because they had no knowledge of sexuality.
The problem isn't with their writing - it's with your dodgy translation that reads back a 20th century concept into a 1st century text.
[/QUOTE]See above. My problem is not with the text but with your reading of it, whereby you assume that Paul's greek translates directly into modern social-science technical words.
The world around us is God's truth.Ah, but God dictates what the real truth is, regardless of what "evidence" anyone attempts to promote. My philosophies and your philosophies are meaningless if they are not in line with God's unchanging, perfect truth. That is ultimately reality.
One group believes that the righteous path entails seeking tranquility and by loving other people; the other believes that adhering to an absolute will is paramount, ignoring all circumstances and changes in the world.
I could have been referring to the liberal and conservative views expressed in this thread, but I was not. I was speaking of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers who the Apostle Paul preached to in Acts 17.
Both philosophies resulted in pride, arrogance, and self-sufficiency, as indicated by their initial response to Paul (What does this babbler want to say?).
Could it be that our hearts are so hardened by our worldviews that we're too jaded to listen for Gods loving voice?
Just asking.
We would all do well to take these words to heart.One group believes that the righteous path entails seeking tranquility and by loving other people; the other believes that adhering to an absolute will is paramount, ignoring all circumstances and changes in the world.
I could have been referring to the liberal and conservative views expressed in this thread, but I was not. I was speaking of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers who the Apostle Paul preached to in Acts 17.
Both philosophies resulted in pride, arrogance, and self-sufficiency, as indicated by their initial response to Paul (What does this babbler want to say?).
Could it be that our hearts are so hardened by our worldviews that we're too jaded to listen for Gods loving voice?
Just asking.
True! His word tells us that we are without excuse because of the evidence of His creation.This is the world around us. The views that people in the world have, are not evidence. Again, I ask you, what about the real evidence that is in your face everyday? The evidence of such things as sexual orientation, are not evidence at all, but merely theories based on human wisdom, and no evidence at all.The world around us is God's truth.
Theories are always based on evidence. Always. You just don't like this one.True! His word tells us that we are without excuse because of the evidence of His creation.This is the world around us. The views that people in the world have, are not evidence. Again, I ask you, what about the real evidence that is in your face everyday? The evidence of such things as sexual orientation, are not evidence at all, but merely theories based on human wisdom, and no evidence at all.
Even if it contradicts a literal reading of scripture, yes.Even if it contradicts Scripture?
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