THIS IS CERN'S SCHEDULE

[Oafman]

They have scheduled very much stronger collisions in 2025

I don't think that's quite accurate. CERN hopes for a tenfold increase in 'luminosity' (basically, the number of observable collisions) rather than any drastic increase in energy levels. They're limited by the size of the LHC stucture.

This is why the Chinese will shortly start work on a collider which is at least twice the size of the LHC. That should be capable of generating energy levels significantly greater than is possible at the LHC, so is pretty exciting for physicists. But work won't start on it until 2020, and my guess is that it will take at least a decade to build (these things being very complicated), so I doubt we'll start to see results much before 2030.

 

[malvina]

I don't think that's quite accurate. CERN hopes for a tenfold increase in 'luminosity' (basically, the number of observable collisions) rather than any drastic increase in energy levels. They're limited by the size of the LHC stucture.

This is why the Chinese will shortly start work on a collider which is at least twice the size of the LHC. That should be capable of generating energy levels significantly greater than is possible at the LHC, so is pretty exciting for physicists. But work won't start on it until 2020, and my guess is that it will take at least a decade to build (things things being very complicated), so I doubt we'll start to see results much before 2030.

Well that was on their schedule

 

[Look Up]

This is CERN'S schedule ... Collisions Pb + Pb Nov. 20 - Dec. 13
: Full Power 1.15 PeV
collisions of Ions of Lead @ 1,148 TeV (1.15 PeV)

This is the CENTER OF MASS ENERGY of Lead Particles

Highest energy to date is 13 TeV with Protons

Tera = 10 followed by 12 zeros Peta = 10 followed by 15 zeros Collisions of Lead Ions will produce 1,148 TeV, exceeding the 13 TeV from collisions of Protons.

Technical Stop Dec. 14 through end of 2015

--AND--

...I know this field. Lead being extremely heavy needs a ton of force, using voltage to get it to move fast. In my machine, I forget if it was electons or protons, (A Hydrogen atom with an electron removed), but I could make I think a proton move at one tenth the speed of light, with just that 300,000 volts. Lead, to do that requires 237 or so times more voltage, as it is 237 times or so, heavier to the force called voltage. (in this work, mass is normally used, but heavy is the concept.)

The cool thing about lead, is it is the heaviest atom which does not fall apart on it's own. Atoms naturally fall apart on their own, if they are heavier (have more protons and neutrons in the center of them), than lead. ...

I'm a novice, and not up to date on CERN. I had thought the facility "blew a gasket" (my metaphor) so management had to shut down the place for months to replace, correct, and clean up--with plans to try lesser power in hopes it would not make a mess of the machine. Perhaps such testing after re-start ran well enough. In any case it sound as if the Nov 20 - Dec 13 period will be used to crank the amps way up (with images in my mind of large pre-Lanthanides loud speakers wired to old fashioned stereo amplifiers--Back to the Future style).

It is a big jump from protons to Pb atoms (nuclei). If these babies do hold together until collision as you suggest katerinah1947, what is the point of cranking up the power to what per your claim seems is the other side of the circular dial--minimum to maximum usable atomic weight? I suspect they are not (just?) trying to increase the numbers of possible collisions. Been there, done that--Higgs boson and all. In comprehensible (to me) Newtonian terms, momentum seems an aim--mass times velocity. But then as velocity approaches "c" with some "heavy" sort of mass ... um, now what? Even squaring the "c" does not get to infinite energy, though 1.15 PeV is pretty impressive (scary?). Are they looking for empirical evidence somehow indirectly suggesting String Theory? Or is that on the "Wish List" while the more reasonable goal is what? Aiming at generating net energy from fusion? Finding smaller particles outside the Standard Model (or again confirming the Standard)? Seeking to know why we are matter and not antimatter?

When they talk of getting to reproduction of 10 to the minus big number second of Big Bang (undergirded partly with the usual theoretical guesswork I guess), I suppose they are trying to make the "big number" bigger (closer to the Bang), but what that means is more than I may be capable of understanding. And if I could, what would be the point(s)--aside from the religious overtones associated with origins?

In layman's terms in other words, what are they after with Pb?

 

[Oafman]

Well that was on their schedule

From which schedule?

This is from the article I linked to:

"Cern was quick to point to its own plans for a major upgrade to the LHC. It said it aimed for a tenfold increase by 2025 in the “luminosity” of the LHC, meaning the rate of particle collisions that the machine can generate.


“The LHC already delivers proton collisions at the highest energy ever,” Cern chief Rolf Heuer said in a statement.


“The High-Luminosity LHC will produce collisions 10 times more rapidly, increasing our discovery potential and transforming the LHC into a machine for precision studies: the natural next step for the high-energy frontier,” he insisted."

 

[katerinah1947]

This is so interesting Thankyou Katerinah I see you have answered Armoured? I cannot see the post I blocked one earlier on with profile of a sick Trump - it might be him.
I think it is good to discuss it and hear everyone's input on the subject especially as it's all about to happen. They have scheduled very much stronger collisions in 2025 I don't know if we'll be around that long the way the world is going

Hi,

Really do please try to understand his truth through sarcasm. He really is spot-on. I sense the soldier in him, but I sense also an incredible adherance to what is right and what is just.

This might help.

One day, at work, a guy walks up to me. It is the biker dude, with tatoos, a scragly beard, who has been in many a fight, including trying out for tough man in the ring. He and I like each other, but most people are just totally afraid of him. And, they are surprised by all those external features about me, matching in any way this man, that could possibly explain my lack of fear, and like for this guy.

He sits down next to me at in the office. I am doing something. He talks. "Why are you always so upset with us? Is it because we are huring your feelings?" YES. Yes I said, and he left and went away. Of course this rude crude mean set of ex-military guys working with me the rather delicate and erudite egg head intellectual who is thrown into the fray as an engineer amonst the working class folks, is hurt constantly by what those men were saying to me. How could they ask me such a question.

Two weeks later, he sit down again, and in the same place. He starts to talk. "When I call you a Slacker, it is because you are not. That man over there, I would never call a slacker." I looked, and he is actually our Resident Narcissist with all of those features resident in Narcissists of which laziness is rampant. (I would diagnose him later, as that was a side issue, and researchers research all things. Apparently and I got this out of him, his Psychiatrist in the Miitary that gave him a deferment for being depressed backed up my diagnosis from his symptoms alone to me, of Narcissism. When I approached and tested that theory, he admitted that he is diagnose Narcissist and then retracted it, out of not really wanting anyone to know that, which is also typical for them. It comes primarily from a horrible horrible childhood, sufficient to cause the brain to be damaged or not form normally.)

I started to understand. He then talked some more: "What we would like to do with you, is get you to the point, that no matter what we say to you, you don't react even if it hurts. In the mean time, we will pick on you for all the things in your life that upset you. When you get to the point that you no longer get upset, we will stop. And, we will also let you know each time you fail to do that. The best of us is Scott."

I looked back, and it's the ex Air Force guy. He is looking at me and he starts to talk. "Yes, even if it hurts, I do not react."

Let me tell you what that is good for, but first I want to tell you, that took 8 1/2 years for me to be as good as Scott, by getting through his stuff also and his ways. Now the good part.

Eventually and all people who are trained nicely this way, a problem came up, but for someone else. It was my daughter and her son in law. They were being hassled, by several people and were besides themselves. Construction done improperly by some family members was also the issue, along with the family members. The neighbors werer a horror. The management of the condos was a horror.

I asked if I could help. They said yes. I did apply for and get all requirements for Oregon's General Contractors license finished, and I am familiar with construction, but my first customer was such a horror that I decided I did not want to work in that field, if I had to deal with people like that, so I never applied for my bond.

Anyway, it worked and they all said to me: "How did you do that?" They said that with an open mouth, a mouth agape. Part of the reason, is the number of battles that I have been in, and that mental hardening, those ex military guys graced me with. Yes, God did much also, and may have really done all of it, and just let me think that I did all the work. In any event, I was the tool, and I was well trained.

Arnoured I think is like me, in the experienced warrior class of people. If you can give him a chance, as with that humor, in very few words he says much, and is out of line only occasionally with people like me, but.

But, he is dealing with people who are not like me, and he can do things that I don't think I can do. Do you remember with that debt in the Bible, the man Jesus talked about in Parable form, how people in this world are great at handling people in this world, and so much so that Jesus commented about that?

Arnoured, seems to be perfect Religiously in fairness and accuracy and intent.

LOVE,

 

[Michael]

Thanks for the update. I share your excitement; CERNs ability to collide lead ions could reveal some very interesting things about the early universe.

The work going on at CERN is a wonderful example of international cooperation, so it's great that you've made a thread to celebrate their latest endeavours.

One cannot help but wonder what happens if it *doesn't* reveal anything else all that interesting, and the net effect on Lambda-CDM.

 

[Armoured]

In layman's terms in other words, what are they after with Pb?

Transmuting it to gold, obviously. That's always been the aim of science. You know how those research scientists love their fat paychecks from anti-tobacco and anti-fossil fuel liberals.

 

[Armoured]

Hi,

Really do please try to understand his truth through sarcasm. He really is spot-on. I sense the soldier in him, but I sense also an incredible adherance to what is right and what is just.

This might help.

One day, at work, a guy walks up to me. It is the biker dude, with tatoos, a scragly beard, who has been in many a fight, including trying out for tough man in the ring. He and I like each other, but most people are just totally afraid of him. And, they are surprised by all those external features about me, matching in any way this man, that could possibly explain my lack of fear, and like for this guy.

He sits down next to me at in the office. I am doing something. He talks. "Why are you always so upset with us? Is it because we are huring your feelings?" YES. Yes I said, and he left and went away. Of course this rude crude mean set of ex-military guys working with me the rather delicate and erudite egg head intellectual who is thrown into the fray as an engineer amonst the working class folks, is hurt constantly by what those men were saying to me. How could they ask me such a question.

Two weeks later, he sit down again, and in the same place. He starts to talk. "When I call you a Slacker, it is because you are not. That man over there, I would never call a slacker." I looked, and he is actually our Resident Narcissist with all of those features resident in Narcissists of which laziness is rampant. (I would diagnose him later, as that was a side issue, and researchers research all things. Apparently and I got this out of him, his Psychiatrist in the Miitary that gave him a deferment for being depressed backed up my diagnosis from his symptoms alone to me, of Narcissism. When I approached and tested that theory, he admitted that he is diagnose Narcissist and then retracted it, out of not really wanting anyone to know that, which is also typical for them. It comes primarily from a horrible horrible childhood, sufficient to cause the brain to be damaged or not form normally.)

I started to understand. He then talked some more: "What we would like to do with you, is get you to the point, that no matter what we say to you, you don't react even if it hurts. In the mean time, we will pick on you for all the things in your life that upset you. When you get to the point that you no longer get upset, we will stop. And, we will also let you know each time you fail to do that. The best of us is Scott."

I looked back, and it's the ex Air Force guy. He is looking at me and he starts to talk. "Yes, even if it hurts, I do not react."

Let me tell you what that is good for, but first I want to tell you, that took 8 1/2 years for me to be as good as Scott, by getting through his stuff also and his ways. Now the good part.

Eventually and all people who are trained nicely this way, a problem came up, but for someone else. It was my daughter and her son in law. They were being hassled, by several people and were besides themselves. Construction done improperly by some family members was also the issue, along with the family members. The neighbors werer a horror. The management of the condos was a horror.

I asked if I could help. They said yes. I did apply for and get all requirements for Oregon's General Contractors license finished, and I am familiar with construction, but my first customer was such a horror that I decided I did not want to work in that field, if I had to deal with people like that, so I never applied for my bond.

Anyway, it worked and they all said to me: "How did you do that?" They said that with an open mouth, a mouth agape. Part of the reason, is the number of battles that I have been in, and that mental hardening, those ex military guys graced me with. Yes, God did much also, and may have really done all of it, and just let me think that I did all the work. In any event, I was the tool, and I was well trained.

Arnoured I think is like me, in the experienced warrior class of people. If you can give him a chance, as with that humor, in very few words he says much, and is out of line only occasionally with people like me, but.

But, he is dealing with people who are not like me, and he can do things that I don't think I can do. Do you remember with that debt in the Bible, the man Jesus talked about in Parable form, how people in this world are great at handling people in this world, and so much so that Jesus commented about that?

Arnoured, seems to be perfect Religiously in fairness and accuracy and intent.

LOVE,

Thanks for that.

 

[malvina]

Hi,

Really do please try to understand his truth through sarcasm. He really is spot-on. I sense the soldier in him, but I sense also an incredible adherance to what is right and what is just.

This might help.

One day, at work, a guy walks up to me. It is the biker dude, with tatoos, a scragly beard, who has been in many a fight, including trying out for tough man in the ring. He and I like each other, but most people are just totally afraid of him. And, they are surprised by all those external features about me, matching in any way this man, that could possibly explain my lack of fear, and like for this guy.

He sits down next to me at in the office. I am doing something. He talks. "Why are you always so upset with us? Is it because we are huring your feelings?" YES. Yes I said, and he left and went away. Of course this rude crude mean set of ex-military guys working with me the rather delicate and erudite egg head intellectual who is thrown into the fray as an engineer amonst the working class folks, is hurt constantly by what those men were saying to me. How could they ask me such a question.

Two weeks later, he sit down again, and in the same place. He starts to talk. "When I call you a Slacker, it is because you are not. That man over there, I would never call a slacker." I looked, and he is actually our Resident Narcissist with all of those features resident in Narcissists of which laziness is rampant. (I would diagnose him later, as that was a side issue, and researchers research all things. Apparently and I got this out of him, his Psychiatrist in the Miitary that gave him a deferment for being depressed backed up my diagnosis from his symptoms alone to me, of Narcissism. When I approached and tested that theory, he admitted that he is diagnose Narcissist and then retracted it, out of not really wanting anyone to know that, which is also typical for them. It comes primarily from a horrible horrible childhood, sufficient to cause the brain to be damaged or not form normally.)

I started to understand. He then talked some more: "What we would like to do with you, is get you to the point, that no matter what we say to you, you don't react even if it hurts. In the mean time, we will pick on you for all the things in your life that upset you. When you get to the point that you no longer get upset, we will stop. And, we will also let you know each time you fail to do that. The best of us is Scott."

I looked back, and it's the ex Air Force guy. He is looking at me and he starts to talk. "Yes, even if it hurts, I do not react."

Let me tell you what that is good for, but first I want to tell you, that took 8 1/2 years for me to be as good as Scott, by getting through his stuff also and his ways. Now the good part.

Eventually and all people who are trained nicely this way, a problem came up, but for someone else. It was my daughter and her son in law. They were being hassled, by several people and were besides themselves. Construction done improperly by some family members was also the issue, along with the family members. The neighbors werer a horror. The management of the condos was a horror.

I asked if I could help. They said yes. I did apply for and get all requirements for Oregon's General Contractors license finished, and I am familiar with construction, but my first customer was such a horror that I decided I did not want to work in that field, if I had to deal with people like that, so I never applied for my bond.

Anyway, it worked and they all said to me: "How did you do that?" They said that with an open mouth, a mouth agape. Part of the reason, is the number of battles that I have been in, and that mental hardening, those ex military guys graced me with. Yes, God did much also, and may have really done all of it, and just let me think that I did all the work. In any event, I was the tool, and I was well trained.

Arnoured I think is like me, in the experienced warrior class of people. If you can give him a chance, as with that humor, in very few words he says much, and is out of line only occasionally with people like me, but.

But, he is dealing with people who are not like me, and he can do things that I don't think I can do. Do you remember with that debt in the Bible, the man Jesus talked about in Parable form, how people in this world are great at handling people in this world, and so much so that Jesus commented about that?

Arnoured, seems to be perfect Religiously in fairness and accuracy and intent.

LOVE,

 

[malvina]

Thanks it's just a pity I can't agree with you

 

[katerinah1947]

--AND--



I'm a novice, and not up to date on CERN. I had thought the facility "blew a gasket" (my metaphor) so management had to shut down the place for months to replace, correct, and clean up--with plans to try lesser power in hopes it would not make a mess of the machine. Perhaps such testing after re-start ran well enough. In any case it sound as if the Nov 20 - Dec 13 period will be used to crank the amps way up (with images in my mind of large pre-Lanthanides loud speakers wired to old fashioned stereo amplifiers--Back to the Future style).

It is a big jump from protons to Pb atoms (nuclei). If these babies do hold together as you suggest katerinah1947, what is the point of cranking up the power to what per your claim seems is the other side of the circular dial--minimum to maximum usable atomic weight? I suspect they are not (just?) trying to increase the numbers of possible collisions. Been there, done that--Higgs boson and all. In comprehensible (to me) Newtonian terms, momentum seems an aim--mass times velocity. But then as velocity approaches "c" with some "heavy" sort of mass ... um, now what? Even squaring the "c" does not get to infinite energy, though 1.15 PeV is pretty impressive (scary?). Are they looking for empirical evidence somehow indirectly suggesting String Theory? Or is that on the "Wish List" while the more reasonable goal is what? Aiming at generating net energy from fusion? Finding smaller particles outside the Standard Model (or again confirming the Standard)? Seeking to know why we are matter and not antimatter?

When they talk of getting to reproduction of 10 to the minus big number second of Big Bang (undergirded partly with the usual theoretical guesswork I guess), I suppose they are trying to make the "big number" bigger (closer to the Bang), but what that means is more than I may be capable of understanding. And if I could, what would be the point(s)--aside from the religious overtones associated with origins?

In layman's terms in other words, what are they after with Pb?

Hi,

Yes, our power supply was blowing up constantly in the beginning. We only used low voltages, or low forces until I found out what was going on.

Fires, blown components and my nerves and everyone elses were constantly being frayed. When I started in the beginning going above 100,000 volts back in those day, people in my lab practically ran out the door, to avoid handling the Crack, sound when it failed.

I used to clap my hands in front of me constantly to try and stave of the shock effects to my nerves. (After finding a small amount of oil, under an insulator in the high voltage section and removeing it, the machine never broke down again, at those low or high voltages. How they missed it I know. Those particular people did not understand vacuum, and voltage, at the time.)

Voltage is speed. The Voltage is applied, but heavy things Pb (Lead) do not go as fast as light things (Hydrogen). I know you said proton. If you remove and eletron from Hydrogen, usually by other electrons hitting the hydrogen in a vacuum, then it is just a proton.

Voltage works only on things with a charge. Hydrogen has no charge. Neithe do any of the atoms, including Lead. So, what is done is in a vacuum, small amounts, very small amounts of lead or hydrogen are put in and then removed by vacuum pumps to the outside world, however. However, in being put in, they are put into areas where electrons are shot at them, again using voltage to move those electrons.

In those collisions with with the hydrogen or lead that is introduced typicall in a gas form, yes lead gas if you will, some of those become charged.

Charged things can be moved in a vacuum. Thus whatever power supplies you have can be used to move those charged things.

How fast they actually go, depends upon how heavy they are. Light things like light cars move so fast with 100hp engines. On the other hand a Semi weighs 30,000 pounds empty and will be moved less fast by that same 100 horse power engine. Voltage and Horsepower are similar in ideas.

Lead is easily broken by collisions that is why it is used.

LOVE,

 

[malvina]

I don't think that's quite accurate. CERN hopes for a tenfold increase in 'luminosity' (basically, the number of observable collisions) rather than any drastic increase in energy levels. They're limited by the size of the LHC stucture.

This is why the Chinese will shortly start work on a collider which is at least twice the size of the LHC. That should be capable of generating energy levels significantly greater than is possible at the LHC, so is pretty exciting for physicists. But work won't start on it until 2020, and my guess is that it will take at least a decade to build (these things being very complicated), so I doubt we'll start to see results much before 2030.

I will get the info for you

 

[katerinah1947]

Thanks it's just a pity I can't agree with you

Hi,

Have you heard of Napoleans female arch enemy, who he says about her: "She teaches people to think that do not know how to think and she teaches people to think that have forgotten how to think"?, well one of her favorite phrases from her book Corrine, that I have used for years and others have used also goes something like this: "To know all is to forgive all."

I will look her up and post it right here as soon as I can find her online:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_de_Staël

LOVE,
...Mary Kate., .... .

 

[malvina]

Have you decided to stand in for Armour then?
I blocked him for very good reason.

 

[Armoured]

Have you decided to stand in for Armour then?
I blocked him for very good reason.

Yes, because I kept asking for citations and specific examples.

 

[Oafman]

One cannot help but wonder what happens if it *doesn't* reveal anything else all that interesting, and the net effect on Lambda-CDM.

Yeah, the absence of certain things is as good as finding them, in the sense that it will send people back to the drawing board with a bunch of new data to consider. Either way, we're learning.

 

[Armoured]

Yeah, the absence of certain things is as good as finding them, in the sense that it will send people back to the drawing board with a bunch of new data to consider. Either way, we're learning.

 

[katerinah1947]

Have you decided to stand in for Armour then?
I blocked him for very good reason.

Have you decided to stand in for Armour then?
I blocked him for very good reason.

Have you decided to stand in for Armour then?
I blocked him for very good reason.

Hi,

I have only asked you to give him another chance. I do not really know what your issue with him is. I am not in the middle, as no one has asked me to be. I can be in the middle, and will not object to that if wanted.

I accept your decisions as you have made them, but I wanted you to at least know that I so far do not understand the issue between you two, not that it's my business, in this case.

Also, I do not know what "stand in for Armour means.", but as a scientist, I do not get emotional over things at work, and this is work.

I am sorry I do not understand you. I love your posting on CERN. I love that you are interested in CERN. And if you have any fears, I hope the things that you are learning about the ordinariness of atoms bumping into other atoms, lessens your fears.

LOVE,

 

[Gentle Lamb]

This is CERN'S schedule

Machine Development Nov. 4 - 8

Technical Stop Nov. 9 - 13

...
Recommissioning Beam Nov. 14 - 15

Set up of Ions of Lead Nov. 16 - 19

Collisions Pb + Pb Nov. 20 - Dec. 13
: Full Power 1.15 PeV
collisions of Ions of Lead @ 1,148 TeV (1.15 PeV)

This is the CENTER OF MASS ENERGY of Lead Particles

Highest energy to date is 13 TeV with Protons

Tera = 10 followed by 12 zeros Peta = 10 followed by 15 zeros Collisions of Lead Ions will produce 1,148 TeV, exceeding the 13 TeV from collisions of Protons.

Technical Stop Dec. 14 through end of 2015

Thanks on the update, where did you find this information?

 

[sfs]

One cannot help but wonder what happens if it *doesn't* reveal anything else all that interesting, and the net effect on Lambda-CDM.

I don't see why their findings would have much effect on Lambda-CDM either way. They're trying to understand the interaction of quarks and gluons at high density and energy, which is interesting but isn't likely to change fundamental physics.

What gives me the willies about these heavy ion collisions is the sheer messiness of the events -- they produce a massive number of charged particles, all of which need to be tracked. In a previous life I was the tracking coordinator for a particle physics experiment, and the software challenge in these collisions is quite severe. But they manage somehow.