This generation

[claninja]

Both Peter & Jude use the same language, and speak of the whole Messianic or Gospel age/era. This same time is elsewhere likened to "last days".

so, just to clarify, your argument is that John knew it was the “gospel/messianic era” (which you seem to believe = the last hour) because many antichrists had arrived and left the church?

 

[claninja]

claninja said: ↑
the “son of man coming on the clouds” is a reference to Daniel 7:13. You can’t just separate that reference from Matthew 24:30 just because it doesn’t agree with your presupposition.


Here Christ is seen going to heaven, to the Ancient of days, it is not Christ returning to earth with the clouds of heaven on the last day.

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

claninja said:↑
Jesus tells the Sanhedrin that from NOW on they would “see” Christ sitting at the right hand AND coming on the clouds.
↑
matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Powerj and coming on the clouds of heaven.

matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

How did the 1st century Sanhedrin “see” Christ sitting at the right and coming on the cloud? Did they literally see this?

1.) Again, the son of man “coming n the clouds” is a reference to Daniel 7, when Christ, in this vision, would receive dominion, power, kingship, and where all peoples of every nation would serve him.

Daniel 7:14, 27 14And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

27And the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’

so, I equate the son of man “coming on the clouds” with Christ’s kingdom, and dominion, in which all peoples should serve him. Which of course occurred in the first century

Luke 21:31-32 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place.

Matthew 26:64 64Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

2.) Your post is kind of messed up, so I’ll have to paste what you typed, as I can’t select it to quote:

@rwb said:
“Christ did not say the Sanhedrin would "see" Christ sitting on the right hand of power. Because in Mt. 25:31 Christ says when He comes in glory with the angels, then He will sit upon the throne of His glory.”

Per the NT, Christ sat at the right hand of power upon his death, resurrection, and ascension:

acts 2:33-35 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,“‘The Lord said to my Lord,“Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

1 peter 3:23 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Acts 5:31 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

so, how did the Sanhedrin from NOW on “see” this?

 

[claninja]

In other words, they were of the same generation (family)

genea means contemporaries. You are conflating genea and genos.

 

[claninja]

And indeed As Christ prophesied, the Old Testament congregation's abominations have left it desolate. All the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel whom Cain slew, to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, all fell upon that generation or family. The same generation of evil that is offended by Christ's Word today.

you are using the word generation incorrectly. Can’t just make up definitions, to fit a presupposition.

Generation:
“all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.”

 

[claninja]

Of course, one might have the objection, how could one living in the time of Christ be responsible for the blood of Abel, whom Cain slew.

the objection is easily rectified when one understands what it means to “fill up the measure of the father’s sins”. the first century generation “filled up the measure of their father’s sins”, thus the righteous blood came on them, as evidenced by 70ad.

 

[claninja]

claninja said: ↑
the “son of man coming on the clouds” is a reference to Daniel 7:13. You can’t just separate that reference from Matthew 24:30 just because it doesn’t agree with your presupposition.

Daniel 7:13 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Here Christ is seen going to heaven, to the Ancient of days, it is not Christ returning to earth with the clouds of heaven on the last day.

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:9 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Matthew 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

claninja said:↑
Jesus tells the Sanhedrin that from NOW on they would “see” Christ sitting at the right hand AND coming on the clouds.
↑
matthew 26:64 You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Powerj and coming on the clouds of heaven.

matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

How did the 1st century Sanhedrin “see” Christ sitting at the right and coming on the cloud? Did they literally see this?

I agree with bensons commentary regarding the reference to the “soon Of man coming on the clouds”

“Luke 21:27-28. Then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud — They shall see the accomplishment of what Daniel foretold, by the figurative expression of, “the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven;” for the destruction of the Jewish nation by the Roman armies, and, in after ages, of other persecuting and antichristian powers, and the spreading of my gospel in consequence thereof, according to this my prediction, shall demonstrate to all unprejudiced persons, that I am the Son of man, prophesied of by Daniel, and that the conversion of the world to Christianity is the glorious universal kingdom which Daniel foretold was to be given to the Son of man; and this is the true sign from heaven, about which the Jews have been so solicitous. See note on Matthew 24:30-31. With regard to the destruction of the Jewish nation, and the consequent downfall of their religious institutions, which they all along opposed to Christianity, it may be observed, that no events whatever could have contributed so effectually to the conversion of both Jews and Gentiles.

“For it is a known fact, that while the Jewish constitution subsisted, the spreading of the gospel was hindered, both by the believing and unbelieving Jews; the former disgusting the Gentiles, by endeavouring to subject them to the law of Moses; and the latter, terrifying them by the persecutions which they raised against the disciples, even in heathen countries. But the abolition of the Mosaical institutions confuted the error of the one, and the destruction of the nation brake the power of the other. The success, therefore, of the gospel, depending in a great measure upon the downfall of the Jewish state, was very properly predicted as the natural consequence thereof. Moreover, as this prophecy described so minutely the catastrophe of the Jewish state, its accomplishment could not but make a strong impression upon the minds of the Gentiles, as we know in fact it did bring over many of them to Christianity.” When these things begin to come to pass — The things I have been predicting; then look up — With firm faith; and lift up your heads — With joy; for your redemption — Out of many troubles; draweth nigh — By God’s destroying your implacable enemies.”

 

[rwb]

1.) Again, the son of man “coming n the clouds” is a reference to Daniel 7, when Christ, in this vision, would receive dominion, power, kingship, and where all peoples of every nation would serve him.

Daniel 7:14, 27 14And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

27And the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’

so, I equate the son of man “coming on the clouds” with Christ’s kingdom, and dominion, in which all peoples should serve him. Which of course occurred in the first century

Luke 21:31-32 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place.

Matthew 26:64 64Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

2.) Your post is kind of messed up, so I’ll have to paste what you typed, as I can’t select it to quote:

Daniel 7:13 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

You omitted vs 13 which clearly says the Son of man went UP to heaven, where the Ancient of days is, and it is at that time He "was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

I notice to you omitted the passage from Acts 1 which says

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:10-11 (KJV) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

These men of Galilee physically witnessed Christ ascending up to heaven, and were told that He would come in like manner as they saw Him go into heaven.

Have no idea what happened in that post, I agree it is very messed up.

“Christ did not say the Sanhedrin would "see" Christ sitting on the right hand of power. Because in Mt. 25:31 Christ says when He comes in glory with the angels, then He will sit upon the throne of His glory.”

"When Christ says "hereafter" He is saying to the Sanhedrin it is because of this very hour that ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Matthew 26:64 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Hereafter - just now:—this day (hour), hence(-forth), here(-after), hither(-to), (even) now, (this) present.

Clearly the Sanhedrin did not see Christ coming in the clouds or sitting on the right hand of power that day. Nor did they "see" this in 70 AD, as the men of Galilee were told He would physically return. That's because that is not what Christ is telling us. Christ says because of this day (hour) the men of the Sanhedrin, like all mankind will see, in the same manner He ascended up, coming again in the clouds in glory.

John 1:51 (KJV) And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

In the same way Christ was not telling Nathanel that from that moment on he would see heaven open and angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. Christ is saying because Nathanel had said "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." In reply to Nathanel Christ said "Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these." Because of what Nathanel had said that very moment (hereafter) he would see angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man.

Luke 12:8-9 (KJV) Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

Per the NT, Christ sat at the right hand of power upon his death, resurrection, and ascension:

acts 2:33-35 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,“‘The Lord said to my Lord,“Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

1 peter 3:23 22who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

Acts 5:31 31God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

so, how did the Sanhedrin from NOW on “see” this?

None can see what has not yet happened. However because of that very hour, or that very day, when the Sanhedrin condemned Christ to die. Of course without His death there would be no resurrection, ascension, or returning again.

 

[rwb]

so, just to clarify, your argument is that John knew it was the “gospel/messianic era” (which you seem to believe = the last hour) because many antichrists had arrived and left the church?

I'm just cutting and pasting my reply because you seem to be omitting many passages from Scripture proving this age/day/last hour are all telling us the Day of the Lord, Gospel/Messianic era began with the advent of Christ and will end when He returns on the last day of this age/day/last hour/last time/last days.

1 John 2:18-19 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The last - ἔσχατος éschatos, es'-khat-os

a superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):—ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Peter 3:3 (KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Jude 18 (KJV) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[rwb]

I agree with bensons commentary regarding the reference to the “soon Of man coming on the clouds”

“Luke 21:27-28. Then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud — They shall see the accomplishment of what Daniel foretold, by the figurative expression of, “the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven;” for the destruction of the Jewish nation by the Roman armies, and, in after ages, of other persecuting and antichristian powers, and the spreading of my gospel in consequence thereof, according to this my prediction, shall demonstrate to all unprejudiced persons, that I am the Son of man, prophesied of by Daniel, and that the conversion of the world to Christianity is the glorious universal kingdom which Daniel foretold was to be given to the Son of man; and this is the true sign from heaven, about which the Jews have been so solicitous. See note on Matthew 24:30-31. With regard to the destruction of the Jewish nation, and the consequent downfall of their religious institutions, which they all along opposed to Christianity, it may be observed, that no events whatever could have contributed so effectually to the conversion of both Jews and Gentiles.

“For it is a known fact, that while the Jewish constitution subsisted, the spreading of the gospel was hindered, both by the believing and unbelieving Jews; the former disgusting the Gentiles, by endeavouring to subject them to the law of Moses; and the latter, terrifying them by the persecutions which they raised against the disciples, even in heathen countries. But the abolition of the Mosaical institutions confuted the error of the one, and the destruction of the nation brake the power of the other. The success, therefore, of the gospel, depending in a great measure upon the downfall of the Jewish state, was very properly predicted as the natural consequence thereof. Moreover, as this prophecy described so minutely the catastrophe of the Jewish state, its accomplishment could not but make a strong impression upon the minds of the Gentiles, as we know in fact it did bring over many of them to Christianity.” When these things begin to come to pass — The things I have been predicting; then look up — With firm faith; and lift up your heads — With joy; for your redemption — Out of many troubles; draweth nigh — By God’s destroying your implacable enemies.”

Yes, I've noticed you often rely upon commentaries to prove your doctrine. You must know that I could find commentaries that clearly dispute your doctrine. What do you do when you find both supporting commentaries, and those that dispute your doctrine? How do you determine which correct?

 

[keras]

you are using the word generation incorrectly. Can’t just make up definitions, to fit a presupposition.

Generation:
“all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively.”

Right; so it will be all the people living when they see the 'fig tree bud'. That is: The re-establishment of the Jewish nation in the holy Land and their survival and prosperity. As we see them today.
WE have seen that happen and will see the rest of the prophesied end time events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years.

 

[Hammster]

Right; so it will be all the people living when they see the 'fig tree bud'. That is: The re-establishment of the Jewish nation in the holy Land and their survival and prosperity. As we see them today.
WE have seen that happen and will see the rest of the prophesied end time events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years.

There’s nothing about budding fig trees in the OD. You really need to stop making that claim.

 

[rwb]

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Take this verse for instance. Look at how many times Jesus used the pronoun 'you' in this verse. Obviously, He was meaning them, so, that is not disputable. What is disputable, since He was saying this to them at the time, this means He was only meaning them and no one else as well. IOW, one can't interpret this to also mean that this 'you' also means you and me and anyone else reading these same words 2000 years later. As if Jesus can't also be saying these things to someone else in future generations because He uses pronouns such as 'you', 'ye' etc, therefore, He was only meaning them and no one else as well.

As if, only those He was speaking to at the time, are to love their enemies, so on and so on, but anyone in future generations, since He used the pronoun 'you', these things don't apply to them as well.

Christ also added whosoever reads, that also expands the "you" to whosoever read.

 

[keras]

There’s nothing about budding fig trees in the OD. You really need to stop making that claim.

Matthew 24:32 is part of the Olivet Discourse.
You really need to read and understand your Bible.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 24:32 is part of the Olivet Discourse.
You really need to read and understand your Bible.

Please point out where it says anything about budding.

 

[keras]

Please point out where it says anything about budding.

Matthew 24:32 Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its tender shoots appear and are breaking into leaf, you will know that summer is near. REBible
This is plain prophecy about Judah, who did blossom and flourish, as the Jews became a nation again in 1948.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 24:32 Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its tender shoots appear and are breaking into leaf, you will know that summer is near. REBible
This is plain prophecy about Judah, who did blossom and flourish, as the Jews became a nation again in 1948.

Once again, there’s nothing about blooming in the OD. I asked that you point out where it says anything about blooming. You have yet to do so.

 

[claninja]

I'm just cutting and pasting my reply because you seem to be omitting many passages from Scripture proving this age/day/last hour are all telling us the Day of the Lord, Gospel/Messianic era began with the advent of Christ and will end when He returns on the last day of this age/day/last hour/last time/last days.

1 John 2:18-19 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The last - ἔσχατος éschatos, es'-khat-os

a superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time):—ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost

1 Peter 1:5 (KJV) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Peter 3:3 (KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Jude 18 (KJV) How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2 Timothy 3:1 (KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Hebrews 1:2 (KJV) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Right, I understand you believe the “last days” equal the messianic/gospel age. But that’s not what I’m trying to clarify.


I’m trying to clarify your belief of 1 john 2:18-19. You believe John knew it was the last hour/messianic age because many antichrists had appeared and left the church, correct? That’s how he knew it was the “last hour”?

 

[claninja]

Yes, I've noticed you often rely upon commentaries to prove your doctrine. You must know that I could find commentaries that clearly dispute your doctrine. What do you do when you find both supporting commentaries, and those that dispute your doctrine? How do you determine which correct?

incorrect. I never post commentaries as “proof”. There seems to be many amongst CF, including staff and moderators, that are unaware that the belief that the olivet discourse is completely fulfilled is NOT exclusive to full preterism. The commentators are there to demonstrate that partial preterism can hold that the olivet discourse was completely fulfilled.

 

[claninja]

Daniel 7:13 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

You omitted vs 13 which clearly says the Son of man went UP to heaven, where the Ancient of days is, and it is at that time He "was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

I notice to you omitted the passage from Acts 1 which says

Acts 1:2 (KJV) Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:10-11 (KJV) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

These men of Galilee physically witnessed Christ ascending up to heaven, and were told that He would come in like manner as they saw Him go into heaven.

Have no idea what happened in that post, I agree it is very messed up.

“Christ did not say the Sanhedrin would "see" Christ sitting on the right hand of power. Because in Mt. 25:31 Christ says when He comes in glory with the angels, then He will sit upon the throne of His glory.”

"When Christ says "hereafter" He is saying to the Sanhedrin it is because of this very hour that ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven."

Matthew 26:64 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Hereafter - just now:—this day (hour), hence(-forth), here(-after), hither(-to), (even) now, (this) present.

Clearly the Sanhedrin did not see Christ coming in the clouds or sitting on the right hand of power that day. Nor did they "see" this in 70 AD, as the men of Galilee were told He would physically return. That's because that is not what Christ is telling us. Christ says because of this day (hour) the men of the Sanhedrin, like all mankind will see, in the same manner He ascended up, coming again in the clouds in glory.

John 1:51 (KJV) And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

In the same way Christ was not telling Nathanel that from that moment on he would see heaven open and angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man. Christ is saying because Nathanel had said "Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel." In reply to Nathanel Christ said "Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these." Because of what Nathanel had said that very moment (hereafter) he would see angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man.

Luke 12:8-9 (KJV) Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.

.

I didn’t “omit” it. The “son of man coming on the clouds” is a reference to Daniel 7. In that VISION, Christ come to the Father on the clouds of heaven and receives all power, authority, dominion, and an everlasting kingdom where all peoples worship him. You can’t separate vs 13 from 14.

So I stated, I believe the “coming in the clouds” is a reference to Christ’s kingdom.

Luke 21:31 31So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near

benson commentary on Matthew 24:30-31
“Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven — Christ proceeds here in the same figurative style, and the plain meaning of his words is, that the destruction of Jerusalem and of the Jewish state, civil and religious, would be such a remarkable instance of divine vengeance, and such a signal manifestation of Christ’s power and glory, that all the Jewish tribes should mourn, and many should be led from thence to acknowledge him for the true Messiah. To explain this further it may be observed, “The sign from heaven, which both the disciples and Pharisees expected, was some visible appearance of the Messiah in the clouds, and some miraculous interposition of his power, by which the Romans, the masters of the world, were to be destroyed, and a universal empire over all nations erected in behalf of the Jews. This sign they were led to expect, because Daniel had said prophetically, of the Son of man, (Daniel 7:13,) that he saw him coming in the clouds of heaven, and that there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, &c. Nevertheless, by the coming of the Son of man in the clouds, Daniel meant his interposing for the destruction of his enemies, particularly the unbelieving Jews; and the erection of his own kingdom over all nations; a spiritual kingdom, a new dispensation of religion, which should comprehend the whole world within its pale. Therefore, to show the disciples that they had mistaken the prophecy, which referred wholly to the destruction of Jerusalem, and to the conversion of the Gentiles, he adopted it into his prediction of these events, and thereby settled its true meaning.” — Macknight. The figurative expression, Coming in the clouds of heaven, in several other passages of Scripture, signifies God’s interposing evidently and irresistibly, to execute vengeance on a wicked generation, and to assert his own government over the world.”

benson commentary Luke 21:27-28
“Then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud — They shall see the accomplishment of what Daniel foretold, by the figurative expression of, “the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven;” for the destruction of the Jewish nation by the Roman armies, and, in after ages, of other persecuting and antichristian powers, and the spreading of my gospel in consequence thereof, according to this my prediction, shall demonstrate to all unprejudiced persons, that I am the Son of man, prophesied of by Daniel, and that the conversion of the world to Christianity is the glorious universal kingdom which Daniel foretold was to be given to the Son of man; and this is the true sign from heaven, about which the Jews have been so solicitous.”

None can see what has not yet happened. However because of that very hour, or that very day, when the Sanhedrin condemned Christ to die. Of course without His death there would be no resurrection, ascension, or returning again.

so just to clarify, you don’t believe Christ is presently sitting at the right hand of God?

 

[claninja]

Right; so it will be all the people living when they see the 'fig tree bud'. That is: The re-establishment of the Jewish nation in the holy Land and their survival and prosperity. As we see them today.
WE have seen that happen and will see the rest of the prophesied end time events, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus to reign on earth for the next thousand years.

I disagree the fig tree parable is about Israel becoming a nation again. It seems more related to vs 33, as Jesus connects it with “so also”

Matthew 24:32-33 From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.