This generation

[Hammster]

How would you know something like that? Have you read every commentary ever written? Matthew Henry is one that had a different interpretation than you do. If you look at Meyer's NT commentary you can see that he interpreted it as you do but also mentions about 20 other people who don't. There is clearly not anything near a consensus on this, so why act as if there is?

Because there’s no reason to think otherwise. The plain reading of the text shows that He had that generation in view when He said those words. Also, I can’t find where Henry disagrees.

 

[Hammster]

Hmmm. That's not a convincing response. I see no basis whatsoever for thinking that Jesus referred to more than one coming of the Son of man in the Olivet Discourse. I believe only doctrinal bias can lead someone to that conclusion.

There is only one second advent. Chapter 25 may be referring to that. 24:30 does not.

 

[Hammster]

Does this imply you mainly rely on Commentaries for your understanding of things? As if Commentators are infallible and can never be wrong about anything.

I don’t rely mainly on commentators. But I do use them, even ones I disagree with.

 

[JosephZ]

There was no second coming at the destruction of the temple, so I don't know what you're talking about here.

Maybe the "coming" that Jesus was asked about by His disciples had nothing to do with the second coming that comes to mind in 2022?

The Greek word for "coming" is parousia, which also translates to arrival or presence. Young's Literal Translation translates Matthew 24:3 like this: And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

The disciples wouldn't have asked Jesus about a second coming if they never expected Him to leave.

 

[Eloy Craft]

despite first century apostate Israel not killing Abel several thousand years ago, they would “fill up the measure of their fathers sin” by murdering Christ, who is the reason anyone is righteous, and pay the price.

thus it would come upon their generation, and it did in 70ad.

Jesus was telling them that Jerusalem was the harlot that rides the beast. On her hands is all the blood ever shed on earth. Sounds like everyone who ever bled doesn't it? When Abel's blood was shed his blood was all the blood ever shed on earth. By accusing the Jewish leaders of being responsible for Abel's murder He is revealing them to be the murderer of the prophets the Mother of harlots.
That He is identifying them as the harlot of babylon means to Jesus their generation stretches back to the very beginning.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Because there’s no reason to think otherwise.

Oh, well, that settles it then. How can I argue with that?

But, there are reasons to think otherwise and I've already told you what they are.

The plain reading of the text shows that He had that generation in view when He said those words. Also, I can’t find where Henry disagrees.

Go here and look at the left side (second one down): Matthew 24:34 Commentaries: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

He said regarding Matthew 24:34 "Our Lord declares that the Jews should never cease to be a distinct people, until all things he had been predicting were fulfilled. His prophecy reaches to the day of final judgment; therefore he here, ver. 34, foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure."

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Maybe the "coming" that Jesus was asked about by His disciples had nothing to do with the second coming that comes to mind in 2022?

Of course it did. He talked about His second coming being accompanied by things like the gathering of the elect (Matt 24:30-31), the destruction of all His enemies (Matt 24:37-39) and the judgment of all people (Matt 25:31-46). Clearly, those things have not happened yet.

The Greek word for "coming" is parousia, which also translates to arrival or presence. Young's Literal Translation translates Matthew 24:3 like this: And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

The disciples wouldn't have asked Jesus about a second coming if they never expected Him to leave.

Why are you acting as if He never talked to them about His second coming before the Olivet Discourse?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

He said the above before the Olivet Discourse. You don't think they would want to ever ask about more details relating to His coming in glory with His angels?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I don’t rely mainly on commentators. But I do use them, even ones I disagree with.

You're putting a lot of trust in commentators that you disagree with when it comes to how to understand what "this generation" means. Is that wise? I don't think so.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is only one second advent. Chapter 25 may be referring to that. 24:30 does not.

Sure it does. And, obviously, verse 27 comes before verse 34 as well.

Matthew 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Is this not one of "all these things" that would have to be fulfilled before this generation passes away? Are you going to try to tell me that this verse is not referring to the second advent, either, even though it refers to "the coming of the Son of Man"?

Also, if Matthew 25 refers to the second advent (it clearly does) then why did Jesus talk about that if He supposedly wasn't asked about it?

 

[JosephZ]

Why are you acting as if He never talked to them about His second coming before the Olivet Discourse?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

He said the above before the Olivet Discourse. You don't think they would want to ever ask about more details relating to His coming in glory with His angels?

Jesus says He's going to Jerusalem where He will be Killed and raised up. He doesn't say anything about leaving the earth.

From that time Jesus began to point out to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go to Jerusalem and to suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised up on the third day. And yet Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You!” But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Matthew 16:21-28)

Even after Jesus' death and Resurrection the disciples still had no concept about a "second coming."

So, when they had come together, they began asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time that You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6)

The disciples expected Jesus to set up His Kingdom when He arrived the first time.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Jesus says He's going to Jerusalem where He will be Killed and raised up. He doesn't say anything about leaving the earth.

From that time Jesus began to point out to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go to Jerusalem and to suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised up on the third day. And yet Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You!” But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what good will it do a person if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul? Or what will a person give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every person according to his deeds.

“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Matthew 16:21-28)

Even after Jesus' death and Resurrection the disciples still had no concept about a "second coming."

So, when they had come together, they began asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time that You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6)

The disciples expected Jesus to set up His Kingdom when He arrived in Jerusalem the first time.

Again, it doesn't matter what the disciples understood at the time. Regardless, it's quite clear that Jesus spoke about His second coming. Why would you deny something so obvious? Has the gathering of the elect already occurred? No. Has Jesus already destroyed all His enemies? No. Has the day of judgment of all people already taken place? No. You need to interpret the Olivet Discourse with all of those things in mind.

 

[Hammster]

Oh, well, that settles it then. How can I argue with that?

But, there are reasons to think otherwise and I've already told you what they are.

Go here and look at the left side (second one down): Matthew 24:34 Commentaries: "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

He said regarding Matthew 24:34 "Our Lord declares that the Jews should never cease to be a distinct people, until all things he had been predicting were fulfilled. His prophecy reaches to the day of final judgment; therefore he here, ver. 34, foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure."

You said

I don't interpret the other uses of "this generation" the way you do, either.

What does your post have to do with the other usages?

 

[Hammster]

Of course it did. He talked about His second coming being accompanied by things like the gathering of the elect (Matt 24:30-31), the destruction of all His enemies (Matt 24:37-39) and the judgment of all people (Matt 25:31-46). Clearly, those things have not happened yet.

He doesn’t say anything about a second advent here. And those things happened.

 

[Hammster]

You're putting a lot of trust in commentators that you disagree with when it comes to how to understand what "this generation" means. Is that wise? I don't think so.

Why not?

 

[Hammster]

Sure it does. And, obviously, verse 27 comes before verse 34 as well.

Matthew 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Is this not one of "all these things" that would have to be fulfilled before this generation passes away? Are you going to try to tell me that this verse is not referring to the second advent, either, even though it refers to "the coming of the Son of Man"?

Also, if Matthew 25 refers to the second advent (it clearly does) then why did Jesus talk about that if He supposedly wasn't asked about it?

That’s not the second advent. That’s the judgment on Israel. Coming on the clouds is judgement language.

 

[Timtofly]

The disciples had no concept of a "second coming" when those questions were asked, so the end of the age they would have been referring to had to be something related to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. In all likelihood, the end of the Mosaic age, the Law, and its regulations that governed the nation of Israel was the age that the disciples were referring to.

Why not?

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe."

 

[Spiritual Jew]

He doesn’t say anything about a second advent here. And those things happened.

You say those things happened, but you're unable to explain how in a convincing way at all. Okay.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Why not?

Are you serious? So, you think it's a good idea to put your trust in the commentary of commentators that you disagree with. Okay.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

That’s not the second advent. That’s the judgment on Israel. Coming on the clouds is judgement language.

I referenced Matthew 24:27 where He spoke about "the coming of the Son of Man". Why should we think that is a different coming of the Son of man than is referenced later in Matthew 24 and in Matthew 25? I believe only doctrinal bias can lead someone to come to that conclusion.

 

[claninja]

You continue to not understand my view. And maybe I'm not being clear enough.

Yes, I do believe that Jesus was talking about the destruction coming upon the Jewish scribes and Pharisees He was talking to. Or at least any who would still be alive when the destruction came. He was talking about destruction coming upon them and He described them as "this generation". But not in terms of the chronological generation they were living in but rather as the type of people who murdered innocent people. People like their forefathers and like Cain.

So, in terms of Matthew 24:34, I believe what Jesus was saying is that the type of people like Cain, like the scribes and Pharisees He railed against, and like their forefathers, would not pass away until all the things He talked about were fulfilled. Obviously, the ones He was talking to were not the last of that type of people to ever live

I have no idea what a “chronological generation” is. Do you mean a group of people living at the same time? That’s just called a generation.

Genea does not refer to throughout time or history unless it is plural, as in “14 generationS from Abraham to David” or used back to back as in “generation to generation”. So to say genea (singular) refers to a specific type of people throughout time or history is really twisting the definition to fit a presupposition.

but we know that Jesus, in Matthew 23:36, was talking about a group of people living at the same time because he said “upon you” will come all the righteous blood shed AND he said that they would “fill up the measure of their father’s sin”.

It makes absolutely zero sense to claim “this type of people from Cain to first century apostate Israel” wil fill up the sins of their fathers.

it makes complete sense that this generation (group of people living at the same time) will fill up the measure of their fathers sins. You have yet to address what this phrase means.

“upon you” will come all the righteous blood shed. All these things will come “upon this generation”. “Upon you” and “upon this generation” both refer to apostate Israel in the first century.