This generation

[claninja]

I have repeatedly addressed this in detail and you have repeatedly avoided the biblical evidence. I refer you back.

Ok, let’s see if your claim is true. You responded to post my 997 in post 999 with:

“All you are doing is forcing Preterism on the meaning of the Greek and then dismissing each meaning if it does not accord with your obsession with AD70. This shows the fragility of your position. The Preterist approach to every topic here is classic eschatological eisegesis – reading into Scripture whatever you want.”

Nope, no evidence there. Just typical generic denigration with no evidence. Care to actually try to counter post 997 to help not only me but the readers understand where you get you definition from?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Ok, let’s see if your claim is true. You responded to post my 997 in post 999 with:

“All you are doing is forcing Preterism on the meaning of the Greek and then dismissing each meaning if it does not accord with your obsession with AD70. This shows the fragility of your position. The Preterist approach to every topic here is classic eschatological eisegesis – reading into Scripture whatever you want.”

Nope, no evidence there. Just typical generic denigration with no evidence. Care to actually try to counter post 997 to help not only me but the readers understand where you get you definition from?

Try before that: 995.

I'm already presented the evidence to you and you have already sidestepped it. Both the Greek words genos and genea refer to race - in this case the Jewish race. I believe it means “this race” - as in "the successive members of a particular genealogy." Notwithstanding, the detail before the references to “this generation” in the parallel passages describe the second coming of Jesus in the future, not the coming of Titus in AD70. So even if a limited physical generation was required of the text it would be one preceding Christ's return.

The word genea means:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

As usual, you are selective in quoting the meaning in order to place a Preterist slant on the word. You avoided the main meanings of 1, 2, 2a, 2b and 2b1 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. You have to in order for Preterism to fit. Preterists are typically very bias and selective in their quotes in order to sustain their position. This is not being fair or accurate. It is not being totally honest and transparent.

The reality is: Preterists insist on a secondary meaning of the Greek word genea to support their beliefs. This shows the fragility of the whole doctrine. It is manifestly not built on solid ground.

 

[rwb]

One More Coming of The Messiah, not Two!

The Old Covenant prophets often write using imagery and symbols, much like we find in Rev 20. Their prophesy is often referencing the Messiah who was to come. When these Old Covenant prophets wrote of the coming Messiah it’s good to note that they did not live to see His coming, although they did prophesy about it.

Therefore when attempting to discern the imagery and symbols of their prophesy it would be good to remember that they did not anticipate two separate comings. They believed all of prophesy about Him would be fulfilled when the Messiah finally came. Why would they think in terms of two comings since the Messiah had not yet come? That makes no sense. Their prophesy about the Day of the Lord coming does not anticipate a single day of the Lord, but rather an age when the Messiah would come and all they foretell about His coming will come to pass in that day/age. When we attempt to interpret the writings of the Old Covenant prophets about the coming Messiah, our interpretation much fit into His first coming.

For example look at the prophesy of Joel. We know this prophesy was fulfilled when Christ came because Peter tells us in the book of Acts that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was fulfillment of the prophet Joel in these last days. And this is when man began to call upon the day of the Lord. Clearly according to Peter, the Great and terrible day/age of the Lord has come just as the prophets said it would.

Joel 2:28-32 (KJV) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Acts 2:14-21 (KJV) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

History shows us the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was the beginning of the Day of the Lord, but is it the last days that Joel also prophesied and Peter quoted? We witnessed the outpouring of the Spirit just as spoken by the prophet Joel in the day of the Lord’s coming, but how can it be the last days that Peter says it is being fulfilled? There has been no witnesses of wonders in the heavens and earth, blood and fire, pillars of smoke, the sun turned to darkness, the moon into blood before the day of the Lord comes. But we have witnessed whosoever calling upon the name of the Lord being saved, which is why the Spirit was poured out.

In order to make sense of the prophesy we must put Joel’s prophesy of the day of the Lord’s coming into all of these last days which is what this age is referred to in Scripture. Clearly Joel’s prophesy is not about the second coming of the Lord because the Spirit was poured out at Pentecost the first days of the Lord’s coming, not the last. Since not all of Joel’s prophesy was fulfilled at Pentecost, we must look for a time it will be fulfilled in these last days of the Messianic Age. And we find fulfillment from the words of Christ on the Mt. Of Olives as he tells His disciples what to expect just before He comes again. We also have the words of Peter.

Acts 1:8-11 (KJV) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27 (KJV) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:25-28 (KJV) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The way to interpret the writing of the prophets of Old concerning the Messiah who would come, is to interpret their words within the proper age, which is the Day/Age of the Lord coming to earth as man in these last days or Messianic era. This is the time that runs from the Lord’s first coming, to His coming again on the clouds of glory. All prophesy regarding the Messiah is fulfilled in this age that continues until the last trumpet sounds His coming again, and time is no more, and the dead are raised and changed.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

John 6:39 (KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40 (KJV) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 (KJV) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

All the prophets of Old, prophesy of this age, the Messianic Age, the Great and terrible Day of the Lord’s coming. Therefore all the prophesy concerning Him must be interpreted to come to pass during this day/age of the Lord. None of the prophets anticipated more than a single coming day/age of the Lord coming. Nor did they speak of another thousand years of time after believers are caught up and changed from mortal to immortal. In fact the Old Covenant saints saw the Messianic Age as eternal. They believed the Messiah would establish His eternal Kingdom on the earth, a kingdom that would have no end, and rule and reign from Old Jerusalem on the throne of His father David, when the day/age of the Lord would finally come.

But we who have the advantage of living after His life, death, cross and resurrection see the Day of the Lord coming ‘again’. But ‘day’ for New Covenant believers looking for His coming again is not coming again with more time, but His coming again in glory will be the LAST DAY of this Messianic Age Christ ushered in. The Lord tells us repeatedly that when our bodies are raised to life again it will be the last day. And the angel sounding the seventh or last trumpet at the Lord’s return to the earth signals that there will be no more time! Time, symbolized as a thousand years is for this Messianic Age/day, but when Christ comes again in glory believers will enter into a new era, a new heaven and earth where there will be no more sin or death, but dwelling with Christ in glory forever...Amen!

 

[claninja]

Try before that: 995.

I'm already presented the evidence to you and you have already sidestepped it. Both the Greek words genos and genea refer to race - in this case the Jewish race. I believe it means “this race” - as in "the successive members of a particular genealogy." Notwithstanding, the detail before the references to “this generation” in the parallel passages describe the second coming of Jesus in the future, not the coming of Titus in AD70. So even if a limited physical generation was required of the text it would be one preceding Christ's return.

The word genea means:

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

As usual, you are selective in quoting the meaning in order to place a Preterist slant on the word. You avoided the main meanings of 1, 2, 2a, 2b and 2b1 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. You have to in order for Preterism to fit. Preterists are typically very bias and selective in their quotes in order to sustain their position. This is not being fair or accurate. It is not being totally honest and transparent.

The reality is: Preterists insist on a secondary meaning of the Greek word genea to support their beliefs. This shows the fragility of the whole doctrine. It is manifestly not built on solid ground.

And I countered in post 997 to your incorrect understanding of definition 1, 2a, 2b:

“successive members of a genealogy” means generations, as in “14 generationS (PLURAL) from Abraham to David”. Genea in this case is plural, NOT singular.

From definition 2a, which the use in the plural sense is found in Matthew 1:17:
“the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17”

genea in Matthew 24:34 is singular NOT plural, so your application of definition 2a is completely unfounded and makes no sense. Christ didn’t say “these generations” will not pass away…..

- - - -

“definition 1 is an old use of the word found in the works of Homer (late 8th century bc). Definitions of words do change over time. also the Bible is “koine” Greek, So we should always look at how the Bible uses the word to understand it. There are no biblical uses in the NT or LXX of definition 1.

definition 2a is not being used, because Christ isn’t talking about multiple generations, as genea in matthew 24:34 is not plural.

Definition 2b is used to group contemporaries by characteristics, not only genealogy. We can see this use when jesus stated “this wicked generation asks for sign”. Who asked for a sign? The wicked and adulterous contemporaries of first century israel that literally stood in front of Jesus asking for a sign.

Outside of Matthew 24:34, genea is never used biblically, whether in the LXX or NT, to describe a singular group of people throughout history. The singular use of genea always describes “contemporaries”, whether characteristically or biologically. The only time genea means throughout history is when it is plural as in “14 generationS from Abraham to david” or duplicated, as in “generation to generation”.”

- - - -

why is the use of genea, in Matthew 24:34, grouped into definition 3 and not 2a or 2b in thayers? Well, genea is not plural and is not used to talk about a genealogy, so 2a is not correct. Genea, in this case, is also not tied to a specific characteristic, like wicked/adulterous/shrewd, so 2b would be inaccurate as well.


Still waiting on an actual counter to my argument, and not just a generic denigration.

 

[sovereigngrace]

And I countered in post 997 to your incorrect understanding of definition 1, 2a, 2b:

“successive members of a genealogy” means generations, as in “14 generationS (PLURAL) from Abraham to David”. Genea in this case is plural, NOT singular.

From definition 2a, which the use in the plural sense is found in Matthew 1:17:
“the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17”

genea in Matthew 24:34 is singular NOT plural, so your application of definition 2a is completely unfounded and makes no sense. Christ didn’t say “these generations” will not pass away…..

- - - -

“definition 1 is an old use of the word found in the works of Homer (late 8th century bc). Definitions of words do change over time. also the Bible is “koine” Greek, So we should always look at how the Bible uses the word to understand it. There are no biblical uses in the NT or LXX of definition 1.

definition 2a is not being used, because Christ isn’t talking about multiple generations, as genea in matthew 24:34 is not plural.

Definition 2b is used to group contemporaries by characteristics, not only genealogy. We can see this use when jesus stated “this wicked generation asks for sign”. Who asked for a sign? The wicked and adulterous contemporaries of first century israel that literally stood in front of Jesus asking for a sign.

Outside of Matthew 24:34, genea is never used biblically, whether in the LXX or NT, to describe a singular group of people throughout history. The singular use of genea always describes “contemporaries”, whether characteristically or biologically. The only time genea means throughout history is when it is plural as in “14 generationS from Abraham to david” or duplicated, as in “generation to generation”.”

- - - -

why is the use of genea, in Matthew 24:34, grouped into definition 3 and not 2a or 2b in thayers? Well, genea is not plural and is not used to talk about a genealogy, so 2a is not correct. Genea, in this case, is also not tied to a specific characteristic, like wicked/adulterous/shrewd, so 2b would be inaccurate as well.


Still waiting on an actual counter to my argument, and not just a generic denigration.

I have showed you repeatedly over the years that you are cherry-picking meanings that suit Preterism. That is exactly what Preterism is!

 

[claninja]

I have showed you repeatedly over the years that you are cherry-picking meanings that suit Preterism. That is exactly what Preterism is!

You keep saying I’m “cherry picking”, but then provide no examples. So I have no idea what your talking about. Please, for my benefit, show what/how/where I am cherry picking in post 997.

what exactly am i cherry picking?

 

[sovereigngrace]

You keep saying I’m “cherry picking”, but then provide no examples. So I have no idea what your talking about. Please, for my benefit, show what/how/where I am cherry picking in post 997.

what exactly am i cherry picking?

I have explained this numerous times and you refuse to acknowledge it. It is pointless. Do a word search and you will find the evidence. I am over going in circles with you.

 

[claninja]

I have explained this numerous times and you refuse to acknowledge it. It is pointless. Do a word search and you will find the evidence. I am over going in circles with you.

No you haven’t. You just make up some generic denigrating response every time.

Additionally, I can’t recall ever thoroughly discussing/going through definitions 1, 2a and 2b with you before.

so, any counter to my argument that your understanding of definitions 1,2a, and 2b is incorrect (post 997)?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hebrews 3:7-19 tells us that there was hope for them during that 40 years in the wilderness, but they were being given an opportunity for 40 years during both periods to demonstrate faith in God, but they (only those of them who failed), failed each time.

You made me think about a possible link between the biblical meaning of "the last days" (Hebrews 1:2) and "this generation" in Matthew 24:34:

[*StrongsGreek*]
01074
γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'
from (a presumed derivative of) 1085;
a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

Hey bro, can you message me?

 

[Blade]

I am only guessing there is more to the bible then Matt-John ooh what if Jesus was really telling them all that in "Aramaic"? When Jesus was here they were still under the Law and it was only to Israel He came first. He even said the children's bread is not for the dogs haha. He was not talking to any Christian or Church at the time. WOW look what this thread is about and as I am typing the song playing is "Our God is Coming Back" By Patrick Mayberry. What are the odds.. Praise YOU FATHER.. love this! And yeah 1min into the song.. before I even noticed..

Words yes the meaning be it org Hebrew/Greek matter. Yet what can GOD do with a word? Hard for me to explain this but I was once reading the word and talking to God about a elderly man I visited in a home. He could only moan not move. He LOVED hearing the word so I read read it or have it played to him. So as I was talking to God I said "you gave me this burden for him so I have a right to ask why he is not being healed". I didn't expect lol God to answer but He did. He said "remember when Daniel prayed?" <--- that right there is what I am talking about "remember when Daniel prayed". Its so hard to explain but those words just like expanded or like exploded. He said so much with just 4 words.

The rest is.. I said ok if this is really you were is that written? He answered "Daniel 10 9-12". Whats the big deal? I had never read the OT nor the book of Daniel. Oh I knew when he asked me about Gab coming to Daniel but lol no clue where it was.

Some will understand some will not. Whats written will happen. Just like the OT the Jews knew about Messiah yet face to face they still missed it. Oh but were different huh He is coming.. dead will rise we will go up also. He made a home for us in at His Fathers house so where (key word) He is we will be. WHEN that happens gets skipped but.. keep telling others how you understand how you see it as if that is how it has to be

 

[DavidPT]

You made me think about a possible link between the biblical meaning of "the last days" (Hebrews 1:2) and "this generation" in Matthew 24:34:

[*StrongsGreek*]
01074
γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'
from (a presumed derivative of) 1085;
a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time.

Are you maybe meaning something like this? The last days will not pass away, until all is fulfilled? If so, can't say I ever thought of it like that, yet it makes sense. If not, I'm not certain what you are meaning in that case? Everything that Jesus talked about in the OD involve the last days. What happened in 70 AD happened in the last days. What is happening now and things that are yet to happen, happen in these same last days.

 

[Zao is life]

Are you maybe meaning something like this? The last days will not pass away, until all is fulfilled? If so, can't say I ever thought of it like that, yet it makes sense. If not, I'm not certain what you are meaning in that case? Everything that Jesus talked about in the OD involve the last days. What happened in 70 AD happened in the last days. What is happening now and things that are yet to happen, happen in these same last days.

The word aoin (age/s) is translated wrongly as "world" in Hebrews 1:2. For some reason the KJV and many other English translations almost always translate "age" wrongly as "world", almost as though to make everything fit Amillennialist doctrine:

Hebrews 1:1-3 "God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the ages, who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, having made purification of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high."

"The last days" before the flood began 120 years before the flood when God said the following:

Genesis 6:13-14a
"And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them. And, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make an ark of Cyprus timbers. You shall make rooms in the ark..."

It was 120 years before the flood came:

Genesis 6:3
"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, in his erring; he is flesh. Yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years."

Genesis 6:5-7
"And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD repented that He had made man on the earth, and He was angry to His heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air. For I repent that I have made them."

So God had already judged the world before the day the flood came upon the world , and the world had already been found guilty. The sentence had been decreed, but not carried out yet. There was still a chance to get into the ark, and many were no doubt called into the ark, but few (8 souls) were chosen.

The ark is a type of Christ:

John 12:31-32
"Now is the judgement of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself."

Revelation 12:9-11
"And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven,

Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death."

Christ our Ark:

John 3:17-18
"For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God."

Hebrews 11:7
"By faith Noah, having been warned by God of things not yet seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance."

So my thinking is that we have been living in the last days since the death and resurrection of Christ, who is our Ark of salvation. So every generation since Christ has been "this generation".

That might be stretching it a little (2,000 years is quite a stretch) but I'm linking "the age", "the last days" and "this generation" together (which is what Preterists do, except that they have "the age" ending in 70 A.D and Christ returning after 70 A.D, and the NHNE as being what we have now).

 

[Zao is life]

“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children,
— Matthew 11:16


“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children,
— Matthew 11:16

The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.
— Matthew 12:41-42


Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”
— Matthew 12:45


Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation.”
— Matthew 12:45

And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.”
— Matthew 17:17


Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:36


Sighing deeply in His spirit, He said, “Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
— Mark 8:12


For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
— Mark 8:38


And He answered them and said, “O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to Me!”
— Mark 9:19


Etc.

What do these all have in common? They are all taking about the generation that Jesus is speaking. However, there are eschatological views that expect us to ignore this language in Matthew 24.


Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34

Ideas and words must be added or read into this to make it fit a particular view. However, taken at face value, like the other instances, simply means that the generation that Jesus was speaking to were those in view, not some eisegesical generation in the future.

"This generation" is the generation that Jesus is speaking about. Does it of necessity mean that it's the generation that Jesus is speaking to?

"God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the Ages [αἰών aiṓn], who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, having made purification of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high." Hebrews 1:1-3

In the above verse, the last days is being linked to the age (the words "by whom He made" show that the word aeon is plural).

Preterists obviously take the last days to mean the final days/years before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, but Christ's ministry began in a Jubilee year which completed the last days of Daniel's 70 'weeks' prophecy.

Going according to Daniel's 70 'weeks' prophecy,

either the Age Hebrews 1:1-3 refers to as the last days began after Christ's ascension (the words in Hebrews 1:1 are "has in these last days spoken", meaning He had already spoken, it was now past tense),

or it's referring to the final 40 years, which is part of Daniel 9:26-27:

Subject of verse 24: The Messiah.
Subject of verse 25: The Messiah.
Subject of verses 26-27: The Messiah, and the destruction of the city and the sanctuary:

The Messiah:
26 And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.
27 And he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease.

City & Sanctuary:
26 And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war.
27 and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It's typical of Apocalyptic literature to do this. Verse 26 says the city and sanctuary will be destroyed. Verse 27 says why it will be destroyed. Compare:

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and all of you would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The chapter divisions in the New Testament were only inserted in the year 1227 A.D. Before this there was no division between what Jesus said at the close of Matthew 23 about their house being left to them desolate and what He said at the beginning of chapter 24 about the destruction of the temple.

Hebrews was written before the destruction of city and sanctuary, so to me it's quite possible that its author (I believe it was Paul), being mindful of the destruction of city and sanctuary mentioned by Daniel, and being mindful of what Jesus had said in the Olivet Discourse, was expecting the destruction of city to come at any time, and in this context He spoke of the Messiah who had spoken to them in these last days.

I will always be honest with the scriptures (God help me to always be honest with the scriptures and not ever try to force them to comply with an eschatological or theological premise), so I don't believe that Christ has returned yet, because I don't believe the things written about the beast and false prophet and those being beheaded for refusal to worship the beast, and Satan being bound, have occurred yet.

But I've noticed that Preterists and Partial-Preterists are completely dishonest when they make what Jesus said about great tribulation and the tribulation of the saints all about what happened to the Jews in 70 A.D (which only Luke's gospel speaks about and refers to as the great distress that will come upon the people when the wrath of God comes upon the city, and links it to the gathering of armies around Jerusalem, Luke 21:20-24).

The rest of Luke's account (as Matthew and Mark's accounts) is talking about the persecution and tribulation of the saints.

The fact of the matter is Jesus linked the appearance of the Son of Man and sending out of His angels to the tribulation and great tribulation of the saints, not of the Jews.

Revelation too links the ascending of the beast out of the bottomless pit both to the beast's war against (and overcoming of) the saints, and to the killing of the two witnesses "when they complete their testimony".

The beast would have to have been Judea (or maybe Nero/Rome), and its 7th 'head' either Nero or the city of Jerusalem if "this generation" Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:34 has already come and gone in the 1st century.

 

[Zao is life]

covfefe
Maybe someday someone will tell me how to delete a post made by accident. Until then, call me President (but not of the US).

 

[Hammster]

"This generation" is the generation that Jesus is speaking about. Does it of necessity mean that it's the generation that Jesus is speaking to?

Yes, it does. One, I presented the evidence in the OP. Two, the second person plurals (you) He uses throughout leave no other explanation than He was addressing those people. And three, if it were another generation, He would have said “that generation”.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, it does. One, I presented the evidence in the OP. Two, the second person plurals (you) He uses throughout leave no other explanation than He was addressing those people. And three, if it were another generation, He would have said “that generation”.

What would the Greek word for "that generation" be?

 

[Hammster]

What would the Greek word for "that generation" be?

I don’t know. I can find out. Why does it matter?

 

[Zao is life]

I don’t know. I can find out. Why does it matter?

It matters for proof of your premise regarding the words "this generation". You said Jesus would have said "that generation" if He were speaking of another generation, so now you have to show that Greek has different words for "this generation" and "that generation", instead of only one word that could mean either "this generation" or "that generation".

If the Greek has only one word for both "this generation" and "that generation" then you cannot prove what you say.

 

[claninja]

This generation" is the generation that Jesus is speaking about. Does it of necessity mean that it's the generation that Jesus is speaking to?

Did the following events occur during the disciples’ generation?

1.) persecutions
2.) famine
3.) earthquakes
4.) wars
5.) gosple preached throughout Roman world
6.) false prophets
7.) temple destruction

 

[Hammster]

It matters for proof of your premise regarding the words "this generation". You said Jesus would have said "that generation" if He were speaking of another generation, so now you have to show that Greek has different words for "this generation" and "that generation", instead of only one word that could mean either "this generation" or "that generation".

If the Greek has only one word for both "this generation" and "that generation" then you cannot prove what you say.

Okay.