This generation

[3 Resurrections]

People still get possessed by demonic evil today.

Not according to scripture. Just according to Hollywood.

 

[Timtofly]

You are missing the point of the Great Tribulation period that would never be duplicated. What made that AD 66-70 period one which would never be duplicated after then was the 7-fold presence of the entire demonic realm that descended upon that "wicked generation in its "last state", just as Christ predicted in Matthew 12:43-45. There has never been a city in the entirety of history where every devil and unclean spirit was concentrated within its walls at one time. This is what happened to Jerusalem for the duration of the Great Tribulation period. Every unclean spirit was confined within its walls, as Revelation 18:2 and Isaiah 24:21-23 said would happen. God used that setting to "cause the unclean spirits to pass out of the land", as Zechariah 13:2 predicted.

Sheer numbers of casualties and level of bloodshed and / or genocide were not the determining factor that made this Great Tribulation period in Israel an unprecedented time. It was the demonic, Satanic torment of the inhabitants in the city of Jerusalem that would never come upon a city like that again in the future.

And you think Hitler was not involved in demonic activity? Hitler was more into the occult than any Roman emperor of the first century. Demons come from reprobate humans. There were way far more reprobate souls and demonic activity in the 2 WW's, than anything you claim about 70AD. Perhaps the concentration around Jerusalem was great. But during the 20th century there were way more cities with that concentration. Yet nothing will compare with the GT when Satan will no longer hide in the shadows, but will be holding press conferences. No one wrote they actually saw Satan in 70AD.

 

[Timtofly]

Regardless, that generation was their generation, the generation in which Jesus spoke the words, not the generation of today in which we are now reading the words; but, the generation in which Jesus was carrying out His ministry in the first century A.D.. While Jesus did say that nobody would know the “hour or the day” of his return, Jesus definitely prophesied that all things would take place before the end of that generation.

That generation passed away, but certainly all did not see 70AD.

Yet those who saw the fig tree bloom, will also see the Second Coming. So which fig tree bloomed in the first century?

 

[Timtofly]

Execution in AD70 was mass crucifixions with multiple victims per cross. Unheard of in WW2.

The Romans did not have gas chambers, or you may have a closer point.

 

[Jamdoc]

Not according to scripture. Just according to Hollywood.

Revelation, written after 90AD, has the beast being possessed by Satan, Isaiah 14 also speaks to that effect, referring to Lucifer, then talking about a man who deceived all the nations and buried in a mass grave (like Gog)

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus declared it to be great tribulation that would never be surpassed ("nor ever shall be"), with no mention of execution methods.

And it will be. So although WW2 was worse than 70AD, the coming GT will be worse than both 70AD and WW2 combined.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Peter's NHNE is the same as John's Revelation 21.

The same NHNE is mentioned by Peter and John and Isaiah, but the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21-22 is another subject John brought up and described for us. It is a reality in place AFTER Christ's bodily second coming and a GWT judgment seat in Revelation 20. The New Jerusalem certainly does have wickedness present and operating outside its gates, which tells us that Revelation 21 cannot be describing the final, purified condition of this world, but only a major step forward towards that end.

But Isaiah's new heaven and earth is not Revelation 21 but the 1,000 year reign of Christ the Prince.

Isaiah does not mention anywhere in his writings a specific period of a thousand years. That one thousand years of Satan's binding is only described in the Revelation 20 chapter.

There are no sinners born in Isaiah 65.

Childbirth takes place in the NHNE. That means the NHNE cannot be the eternal state, because there is no marriage nor giving in marriage in the resurrected state. Unless you want to say that these are all illegitimate children born to the righteous in heaven.

Isaiah 65: 23 (LXX) "My chosen shall not toil in vain, neither shall they beget children to be cursed; for they are a seed blessed of God, and their offspring with them."

 

[JosephZ]

This all happened 40 years before your "end date". This was all finished and completed in 30AD. Not a single verse in this quote points to 70AD. The Word of God on the Cross is, "IT IS FINISHED".

The Old Covenant and New ran parallel to one another until the temple was destroyed.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)

The temple, the sacrificial system, and the priesthood, were done away in 70AD and the Jews could no longer look to them for redemption or atonement. From that day forward forgiveness and mercy could only be found through Jesus Christ and His work on the cross alone.

“The coming of Christ in A.D.70 was a coming in judgment on the Jewish nation, indicating the end of the Jewish age and the fulfillment of a day of the Lord. Jesus really did come in judgment at this time, fulfilling his prophecy in the Olivet Discourse...

The most significant, redemptive, historical action that takes place outside the New Testament, is the judgment that falls on Jerusalem, and by which judgment the Christian Church now emerges as The Body of Christ" -- R.C. Sproul

 

[3 Resurrections]

Revelation, written after 90AD,

This is a modern-day presumption, and does not take into consideration the multitude of time-relevant terms and date indicators within Revelation itself. This combined internal evidence all points directly to a composition date between late AD 59 and early AD 60 - no later, or there would not have been a Laodicean church to write to after the cataclysmic AD 60 Laodicean earthquake.

Isaiah 14 also speaks to that effect, referring to Lucifer

Lucifer is not Satan. Lucifer is called "the man that made the earth to tremble..." in Isaiah 14:16.

the beast being possessed by Satan

Possession was rampant in the closing days of AD 66-70. Christ had already predicted this desperate "last state" for that wicked generation in Matthew 12:43-45. Satan was operating at full steam, knowing he had just a "short time" left to do whatever damage he could (Revelation 12:12). That "short time" for Satan expired by the end of AD 70. Jerusalem as a "furnace of fire" / "Lake of fire" was "prepared for the Devil and his angels" to be cast into it. The entire demonic realm was imprisoned within Jerusalem (Revelation 18:2) for the duration of the AD 66-70 war. By the close of that period, Satan the erstwhile anointed cherub had been destroyed to ashes, so that he would exist no more (Ezekiel 28:18-19). And his unclean spirits all "passed out of the land" (Zechariah 13:2) by the end of the siege against Judah and Jerusalem.

 

[Jamdoc]

This is a modern-day presumption, and does not take into consideration the multitude of time-relevant terms and date indicators within Revelation itself. This combined internal evidence all points directly to a composition date between late AD 59 and early AD 60 - no later, or there would not have been a Laodicean church to write to after the cataclysmic AD 60 Laodicean earthquake.



Lucifer is not Satan. Lucifer is called "the man that made the earth to tremble..." in Isaiah 14:16.



Possession was rampant in the closing days of AD 66-70. Christ had already predicted this desperate "last state" for that wicked generation in Matthew 12:43-45. Satan was operating at full steam, knowing he had just a "short time" left to do whatever damage he could (Revelation 12:12). That "short time" for Satan expired by the end of AD 70. Jerusalem as a "furnace of fire" / "Lake of fire" was "prepared for the Devil and his angels" to be cast into it. The entire demonic realm was imprisoned within Jerusalem (Revelation 18:2) for the duration of the AD 66-70 war. By the close of that period, Satan the erstwhile anointed cherub had been destroyed to ashes, so that he would exist no more (Ezekiel 28:18-19). And his unclean spirits all "passed out of the land" (Zechariah 13:2) by the end of the siege against Judah and Jerusalem.

and this cursed, sin glorifying, homosexuality exalting, lawless, depraved, degenerate, reprobate world is your idea of the fulfillment of the New Heavens and New Earth at the end of Revelation?

If I at all thought you might be right.. I'd be so disappointed I'd be considering suicide.
I don't, because I think you're flat out wrong.
But that's the fruit of preterist teaching to me.

 

[Timtofly]

I’m dealing with someone who is going to question the canon.

The majority support for Matthew is a post 70 AD writing.

So you yourself already question the Canon, to fit your bias. I am not questioning the Canon, but just pointing out the facts.

 

[Timtofly]

He could have said “that generation”. He didn’t.

It is the generation that sees the fig tree blooming. So if you do not see the fig tree as Israel, that would be every single year for the last 1992 years.


"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

This generation is the one signified by the parable of the fig tree blooming. Jesus did say it to them, with the criteria specified of the parable. The parable is part of these things. Jesus did not say, "your generation that sees these things". Jesus said, "this generation that sees these things".

 

[DavidPT]

Jesus really did come in judgment at this time, fulfilling his prophecy in the Olivet Discourse...

If we compare that to the following though, and that if one believes that the Father and Son are not the same person, but that the following is pertaining to what happened in 70 AD, nowhere does it record that the Son comes in judgment in any sense.

Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

In verse 2, obviously a certain king is meaning the Father since His Son is obviously meaning Jesus.

Which means in verse 3, it is a certain king, the Father, who sent forth His servants.

In verse 4 it is still a certain king, the Father, sending forth other servants.

In verse 7, since we have already established in verse 2 that a certain king is meaning the Father, that means the king meant in this verse is still meaning the Father. That means the Father was wroth. That means the Father sent forth His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.


Where then does it record in this parable that the Son came in judgment in 70 AD?

Clearly, according to the Discourse, the Son comes in judgment, but not in 70 AD, in the end of this age is when He comes in judgment. But if I am wrong, I guess this means the Father and Son are the same person since that is the only way Jesus could have come in judgment in the parable above. But even then, the text tells us that His armies are sent, meaning the Father's armies, thus neither the Father nor the Son coming in judgment in 70 AD in any sense. There is no coming by God in any sense connected with what happened in 70 AD. Meaning where God Himself participated like He did during the events recorded in Genesis 19, for example, when the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven. That is an example of God coming in judgment since it involves Him personally participating in the judgment.

 

[jgr]

You left out starvation, and it happened for a lot longer during WW2 than the 7 months of 70AD.

Guess who were the test subjects for the Bayer company during WW2? Many were deliberately infected as human test subjects for several medications.

The Germans did not view the Jews as humans, so they suffered way more than just facing instant death.

So you know more about Jewish history than the Jews know about Jewish history.

Contemporary Jewish historians rebut:

"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."

How many WW2 Jews roasted and dined on their children?

 

[jgr]

And it will be. So although WW2 was worse than 70AD, the coming GT will be worse than both 70AD and WW2 combined.

How many WW2 Jews roasted and dined on their children?

 

[jgr]

The Romans did not have gas chambers, or you may have a closer point.

They had swords and spears, infinitely more merciful than crucifixion.

You'd rather be crucified than gassed?

 

[jgr]

Disconnecting the events to say that some were fulfilled in AD70 and the second coming comes 2000 years after the "signs" that were intended to precede it is unbiblical, and frankly makes no sense.

It is the Scriptural antidote to futurist fallacy and fantasy.

Jesus answered the disciples' questions, which related to both AD70 and His Second Coming, in their entirety.

The disciples didn't go for coffee during Jesus' discourse. They listened, and remembered and heeded His warning years later when they and the Judean Christians fled, thus ensuring their survival.

The futurist insistence that nothing that Jesus said was of relevance to the disciples' era is errant and aberrant.

Thankfully, the disciples and Judean Christians were not dispensational futurists.

 

[Jamdoc]

It is the Scriptural antidote to futurist fallacy and fantasy.

Jesus answered the disciples' questions, which related to both AD70 and His Second Coming, in their entirety.

The disciples didn't go for coffee during Jesus' discourse. They listened, and remembered and heeded His warning years later when they and the Judaean Christians fled, thus ensuring their survival.

The futurist insistence that nothing that Jesus said was of relevance to the disciples' era is errant and aberrant.

Thankfully, the Judaean Christians were not dispensational futurists.

[Staff Edit]
He said, all these things will be fulfilled within the same generation.
No second coming... well
then that's not the primary fulfillment.
Something significant happened, but without Christ's return, that means we still have to watch, because the world is trending towards lawlessness outside of your seven mountains mandate echo chamber that insists everything is rosy and good.

 

[jgr]

[Staff Edit]
He said, all these things will be fulfilled within the same generation.
No second coming... well
then that's not the primary fulfillment.
Something significant happened, but without Christ's return, that means we still have to watch, because the world is trending towards lawlessness outside of your seven mountains mandate echo chamber that insists everything is rosy and good.

You apparently believe that the Judean Christians were wrong to heed Jesus' warning and flee.

They should have stayed put and been slaughtered.

 

[Hammster]

The same things happen, I even color coded them.
if you want to see Matthew 24 as not being the same event as Revelation 6, and all the Old Testament passages talking about the Day of the Lord, I don't know what to say, except annoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Because Jesus is coming back, and it will be preceded by the signs He gave.

Those signs, however, were about the judgement coming upon Jerusalem. Hence “this generation”. Again, you have assumed your conclusion.