This fumes me.

[Babel Fish]

I can't argue with that.

I guess I'm just tired of catering to their every need, you know? They get better health care than a lot of people with actual health insurance. Did you know that? An illegal immigrant can get an expensive wheelchair for their child because we have programs to help them like that. But a person who is a citizen here, pays their taxes, and has insurance, can't get that same wheelchair for their child because their insurance doesn't cover it. That isn't to say that the illegal immigrant's child doesn't deserve the wheelchair, I'm just saying that we shouldn't deny our law-abiding citizens the things that illegals can get.

And they should at least attempt to speak English. If I were moving to a different country, I would make every effort to learn that country's language so I could communicate. I'm very tired of hearing Spanish everywhere I go. And I'm tired of having all the phone messages at businesses give the options in Spanish. And I'm tired of seeing signs and banners and things with English and Spanish on them. It's unfair of them to expect everyone to learn their language just so we can communicate with them when they're living in our country. I don't know. I just see the need for a lot of change. I don't want to hurt them and I don't want them to die in poverty. We've got a tough situation on our hands and I have yet to see anyone come up with a good answer to this problem.

Stop complaining and just learn the language. It's not that hard and it is extremely practical. It's the number two language in the world. Should we just kill off the language because the lazy american doesn't want to disrupt her life? Just because you're tired of seeing the spanish language? Give me a break.

 

[TriptychR]

Stop complaining and just learn the language. It's not that hard and it is extremely practical. It's the number two language in the world. Should we just kill off the language because the lazy american doesn't want to disrupt her life? Just because you're tired of seeing the spanish language? Give me a break.

Whoa, whoa. I think your "lazy American" barb crossed the line there. Shouldn't the burden of learning be on the people who come into the country? Otherwise, going through immigration history, we all should've learned Italian, German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, etc. But we didn't, because they learned, as any American with plans to live in any of their countries of origin would have the responsibility of learning that nation's language.

Oh wait; what? There are more foreigners in our country than Hispanics?

 

[KomissarSteve]

Whoa, whoa. I think your "lazy American" barb crossed the line there. Shouldn't the burden of learning be on the people who come into the country? Otherwise, going through immigration history, we all should've learned Italian, German, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, etc. But we didn't, because they learned, as any American with plans to live in any of their countries of origin would have the responsibility of learning that nation's language.

Oh wait; what? There are more foreigners in our country than Hispanics?

You're speaking from a very "it's not fair" viewpoint, though; shouldn't you be looking at this from a "is it practical?" perspective instead?

I, certainly, think it's practical, and it would be very, very wise to start teaching the next generation Spanish, regardless of whether or not it's fair on some esoteric level.

 

[KomissarSteve]

It's the number two language in the world.

To be fair, that would be number two in terms of native speakers; a LOT of people in India, Africa, and continental Europe speak English as a second or third language.

 

[JPPT1974]

A lot of people like speak different
Kind of "English languages" you are trying to say right?

 

[Photios]

No, because there is no major difference in their English outside of accents and slang.

 

[KomissarSteve]

No, because there is no major difference in their English outside of accents and slang.

Precisely. Somebody living in Mumbai learning English from an early age will be able to communicate effectively with a native speaker in the U.S.

 

[TriptychR]

You're speaking from a very "it's not fair" viewpoint, though; shouldn't you be looking at this from a "is it practical?" perspective instead?

I, certainly, think it's practical, and it would be very, very wise to start teaching the next generation Spanish, regardless of whether or not it's fair on some esoteric level.

Any sort of education like that is an advantage, certainly, depending on whether where you live has a high population of people who speak Spanish and no English. Don't you feel you are understating the fairness aspect of this, however? Do we accommodate others based only on sheer numbers? If the citizens of Quebec started crossing our northern border in droves, would you suggest we all learn French as well? Should those around Chinatowns and Little Italy's all learn Chinese and Italian?

To tell the truth, if I was in any of those situations (which, alas, I am not, living in rural New York state), I would venture picking up some of those languages out of sheer interest. However, is it practical to demand it?

 

[KomissarSteve]

Don't you feel you are understating the fairness aspect of this, however? Do we accommodate others based only on sheer numbers? If the citizens of Quebec started crossing our northern border in droves, would you suggest we all learn French as well? Should those around Chinatowns and Little Italy's all learn Chinese and Italian?

Certainly! Focusing on subjective considerations like whether or not it's "fair" serve no one; we ought to be worrying over whether or not our current policy provides us any benefit whatsoever - and I'm pretty convinced that it doesn't.

However, is it practical to demand it?

Demand, no. Provide an incentive for it, though? Without a doubt.

 

[Photios]

Not actually taking a position here, but "fair" is not really a subjective issue. Fairness is, in this sense, another word for justice. It is unjust to expect natives to learn the language of immigrants, legal or otherwise, whatever the practicality.

Also, there are incentives for them to learn English, such as fully functioning in their new homeland. As I understand, though I can't cite anything, there are other incentives, as well as programs to make it easier.

 

[Sketcher]

If the U.S. REALLY wants to stop losing jobs, the government will subsidize higher education further than it already has.

So the trustees of the universities waste more money on pet projects, rather than benefiting the students? I don't see this going anywhere at all.

Being a lifelong Californian myself, my impression of illegal workers is that they are, on average, hard-working, honest, God-fearing people who do jobs that the rest of us don't want to do, and unfortunately, they are a completely necessary part of our societal infrastructure. California's number one export is agriculture; it would be a shame for that industry to come to a screeching halt just because we decided to crack down on illegals.

This sounds like an argument for terminating the minimum wage more than anything. Do that, and you keep the agriculture industry alive, you don't drain the schools and hospitals, and you drastically reduce drug trafficking and communicable disease.

If we are going to be a nation of immigrants, it only makes sense to be in control of who we let in. As it stands right now, someone with cholera or tuberculosis can come right in without being tracked, mix around, and be a public health hazard. It is also possible for criminals and even terrorists to waltz in unchecked. This is not a stereotype of any race or nationality of people here, this sort of problem is inevitable if you just leave your door open to anybody. Some bad apples are going to come in and they are going to cause problems. Not only that, they can just disappear since millions of undocumented aliens are living in the US. Also, if you are going to have public services that rely on tax revenue (especially property tax) you cannot have a large population of illegals because they take the benefits without paying back into the system. When hospitals close and schools get bogged down, you've got to do something about that.

 

[TriptychR]

Demand, no. Provide an incentive for it, though? Without a doubt.

I would certainly be in favor of more incentives to increase language education in the U.S., simply for the intellectual strengthening learning a new language provides. We're definitely behind most of the world in languages. Heck, an embarrassing number of native-born Americans don't seem to have a firm grasp of their own language, let alone any other's.

However, I also agree with Photios in the sense that those who speak other languages than English should have even more incentive to learn English if they're in America. Do the foreign-speaking people in our country currently have enough access to good English language education? If they do, are they properly taking advantage of it? Those are important questions.

 

[Gam3rG1rl4Chr1st]

Incentive is good, for both sides. Being forced to learn a language just because a large number of people coming into your country are speaking it....is not. That was what I was saying. And I'm not a "lazy American" by the way and I don't think I said anything that should have warranted that comment. I didn't attack anyone else here and if I offended anyone then I apologize. I just don't like having stuff shoved down my throat every day by people who by all rights shouldn't be here unless they are here legally.

And I'm with Twistedsketch. We're in a state of war right now and we should have our borders regulated, on all sides so that we know who's in our country at a given time. It's just not smart to let anyone and everyone in unchecked. And about the taxes as well. Illegal aliens are benefitting from them and not paying a dime into the fund. Not only that, but there's a proposed bill that's going to go through the houses of congress soon that will qualify illegals for Social Security based on work that they did while they were here illegally, even if they were under a stolen identity. That makes no sense to me. For years people have been worrying that there isn't going to be enough money for people after the Baby Boomers start collecting their Social Security. So why in the world would we give what little remaining money there is to people who have never in their lives contributed to Social Security?? If we do that then we're ensuring that the money will run dry. It's incredible that anyone would even consider it, much less work it into a bill. If an illegal is granted amnesty and then wants to receive Social Security then they should receive it based on the work they do after they became citizens, not before.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

It is, for lack of a better word, interesting how people who are angry about illegal immigration in the U.S. take their anger out on the immigrants but not on the employers who illegally employ such immigrants.

It is interesting how people who are angry about illegal immigration in the U.S. get wound up over having to "press 1" for service in English but not over a company being staffed with immigrants with fake Social Security numbers.

Now why would anybody get the idea that such anger is about race and nationality?

 

[Sketcher]

It is, for lack of a better word, interesting how people who are angry about illegal immigration in the U.S. take their anger out on the immigrants but not on the employers who illegally employ such immigrants.

It is interesting how people who are angry about illegal immigration in the U.S. get wound up over having to "press 1" for service in English but not over a company being staffed with immigrants with fake Social Security numbers.

Now why would anybody get the idea that such anger is about race and nationality?

Who said we weren't angry about the employers?

 

[Gam3rG1rl4Chr1st]

I am equally frustrated with companies that employ illegals. If it weren't for these companies, I don't think we would have as much problem as we have today. Because without these companies, illegal immigrants wouldn't have as much incentive to come over here illegally. But these companies "overlook" the fact that these people are illegal and they "overlook" it when people come in with fake ID's and actually then give them more of a reason to come over the borders. These companies are certainly a big part of the problem and need to stop employing illegals if we ever want to get out of this mess we're in.

Like I said, I see a big need for some change in this country regarding illegal immigrants and I have yet to see anyone come up with a reasonable solution to this problem that doesn't completely write off the illegal immigrants, but yet protects our actual citizens.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

I'm so sick of the union-leader mentality. If you can't get paid as much as you used to for the same amount of work, don't cry and whine about it. Economics are about supply and demand, and if your skill set is oversupplied, there will be less demand for it. Everyone is paid what they're worth. The higher demand your skill set generates, the more you're worth.

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah you get paid by how you have
The most or least experience
And by getting to the most you have to
Start somewhere and work your way up
Honesty and truthfully donig good but honest work.

 

[LOVEthroughINTELLECT]

Who said we weren't angry about the employers?

With respect to immigration in the U.S. the only person who I have heard express any outrage over employers breaking the law and the government not harshly punishing those employers is CNN's Lou Dobbs.

 

[Photios]

With respect to immigration in the U.S. the only person who I have heard express any outrage over employers breaking the law and the government not harshly punishing those employers is CNN's Lou Dobbs.

Just a quick question: since when does the news actually represent what the people of our country really think?