Third Temple is a Wrong Teaching

[Interplanner]

But it is not simple OneA. Not when the raised-up fallen tent of David is the entrance of the Gentiles into faith. At that rate, T. Scott's commentary is best, safest: the destruction of what stood for the old to give way to the new in Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Attention everyone!

I must announce that I am going to attend a meeting, then I will be driving home, then I will be attending a couple of classes. So I may not be present for several hours.
Please be so kind as to refrain from the ever so bold use of the "coward" slur based on my absence.
In the meantime, the office will be open to the ad hominems of "Mormon", "JW," "Muslim," "atheist," or other fun slurs.

Thanks.

That may take a miracle......

Ok "heretic".....hurry back

Btw, when ya do get back, can ya think about joining our "heretic" club

http://www.christianforums.com/groups/351/

For everyone who as at some point or another been told that they are a heretic, or that their views are heresy by another CF member

Showing 10 of 95 Member(s)

 

[briancfcf]

The Apostle Paul always taught that God's Temple during the New Testament Era would be His people, and the Temple for the believer is the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
This means that Ezekiel's temple is the Lord Jesus Christ, which is a Temple that has been built by God's hands and not man's hands. And so, once God's temple falls away from Biblical truth then the man of sin would be revealed within His New Testament Temple. And this means that all of this occurs within the corporate Church, and not the State of Israel.
Source: endtimesalert.com

 

[jsimms615]

Is Amos 9:14-15 fulfilled.

Yes or no?

I know you weren't talking to me, but I am going to answer anyway.
I don't see how you can answer this yes if you believe that the Northern Kingdom was Israel. I don't really see a fulfillment of this scripture at all. Perhaps it is talking about a future time? So, the answer is no.

 

[JLB777]

The Apostle Paul always taught that God's Temple during the New Testament Era would be His people, and the Temple for the believer is the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
This means that Ezekiel's temple is the Lord Jesus Christ, which is a Temple that has been built by God's hands and not man's hands. And so, once God's temple falls away from Biblical truth then the man of sin would be revealed within His New Testament Temple. And this means that all of this occurs within the corporate Church, and not the State of Israel.
Source: endtimesalert.com

We are indeed the Temple of God.

What does that have to do with the temple described by Paul, in his letter to the Thessalonians?

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God...And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4,8


How does a "man" of sin occupy all of the body of Christ at the same time?

Are you trying to teach us that a "man of sin" is somehow Omnipresent, and can be everywhere at once like God?

A physical man can not be "in" all the individual believers that make up the Temple of God, a dwelling place in the Spirit.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

Are today's Jews from the northern tribes? If not, then Amos isn't about them. If you think they are, maybe there's more to discuss.



...Amos isn't about the Jews. Amos is about Israel/the Northern Kingdom.



Like I said, you have an angle that you're trying to push in your loaded question that is based on a set of assumptions that are themselves founded on historical ignorance. Undoubtedly you have some sort of pre-canned responses that you're itching to put out there that are themselves based on your incorrect assumptions. We've identified one assumption that is incorrect already - that Amos 9 is about the Northern Kingdom and it's cities of Bethel and Samaria (among others), not Judah. We've also identified your historical shortcomings which further put into question whatever assumptions you are making about Amos 9.

If you want to state your case about Amos 9:15, I'm all ears, but I'm not really interested in loaded questions based on ignorance.



Your problem is the assumptions behind your question.

Do you believe this scripture has come to pass, whereby all of the inhabitants of Israel shall see Jesus as Messiah, whom they pierced, and that Jesus will physically destroy those that surround Jerusalem.

In that day," says the Lord, "I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.' 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place--Jerusalem. 7 "The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:4-12


JLB

 

[Yekcidmij]

Do you believe this scripture has come to pass, whereby all of the inhabitants of Israel shall see Jesus as Messiah, whom they pierced, and that Jesus will physically destroy those that surround Jerusalem.

In that day," says the Lord, "I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, 'The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.' 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place--Jerusalem. 7 "The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:4-12


JLB

John seems to think it was:

Jn 19:36 For these things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled, “Not a bone of his will be broken.” 19:37 And again another scripture says, “They will look on the one whom they have pierced.”

 

[Yekcidmij]

Doesnt matter what my "assumption" is.

Sure it does. Watch:

Do you still abuse little animals? Yes or no.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Sure it does. Watch:

Do you still abuse little animals? Yes or no.

No, I punched my brothers dog when I was younger because she chewed my coffee table.

To this day I wont forget scaring her to the point she peed on my carpet, and to this day I regret and feel terrible about it.

So no, I dont abuse animals anymore.


What does this have to do with you answering whether or not Amos 9:14-15 has been fulfilled or not?


(actually, I killed a possum on the side of the road with a bat because its spine was ripped out when it was hit by a car, I put it out of its misery, so Im not sure if that qualifies for abuse or not, I wept over the situation)

 

[OneAccordRM]

I know you weren't talking to me, but I am going to answer anyway.
I don't see how you can answer this yes if you believe that the Northern Kingdom was Israel. I don't really see a fulfillment of this scripture at all. Perhaps it is talking about a future time? So, the answer is no.

Thank you, so this is a still future prophecy according to you.


Thanks for answering.

 

[OneAccordRM]

John seems to think it was:

Jn 19:36 For these things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled, “Not a bone of his will be broken.” 19:37 And again another scripture says, “They will look on the one whom they have pierced.”

You forgot one.

Rev_1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

 

[JLB777]

John seems to think it was:

Jn 19:36 For these things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled, “Not a bone of his will be broken.” 19:37 And again another scripture says, “They will look on the one whom they have pierced.”

Yes, Jesus side had to be pierced so that the prophecy spoken might be fulfilled.

It hadn't been fulfilled as this same John wrote these words in Revelation -

Every eye will see Him, EVEN those who pierced Him.

The prophecy will be fulfilled when Jesus returns and all of Israel will see Him and mourn -

As it is written -

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.



JLb

 

[OneAccordRM]

Yes, Jesus side had to be pierced so that the prophecy spoken might be fulfilled.

It hadn't been fulfilled as this same John wrote these words in Revelation -

Every eye will see Him, EVEN those who pierced Him.

The prophecy will be fulfilled when Jesus returns and all of Israel will see Him and mourn -

As it is written -

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.



JLb

He also forgot about Revelation.

Rev_1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Yes, Jesus side had to be pierced so that the prophecy spoken might be fulfilled.

It hadn't been fulfilled as this same John wrote these words in Revelation -

Every eye will see Him, EVEN those who pierced Him.

The prophecy will be fulfilled when Jesus returns and all of Israel will see Him and mourn -

As it is written -

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.



JLb

You forgot one.

Rev_1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

So do you guys think that John 19:36 does not indicate fulfillment on the cross?

 

[OneAccordRM]

So do you guys think that John 19:36 does not indicate fulfillment on the cross?

That prophecy is clearly fulfilled on the cross.

The beginning of the fulfillment of 19:37 began at the cross and culminates when Christ returns, and then the prophecy will be fulfilled.

as it is written.

 

[Interplanner]

Jn 19 is one of several that show that Zech 12 was being fulfilled. I wouldn't bother with any assertions from Zech 12-14 unless the apostles already interpreted it.

 

[NannaNae]

Jn 19 is one of several that show that Zech 12 was being fulfilled. I wouldn't bother with any assertions from Zech 12-14 unless the apostles already interpreted it.

it seems you have eliminated as frivolous the whole old testament. except certain verses and only those quoted by the apostles..

you know it says here that

" Jhn 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.."

you only adhere to that one verse that they did quote out of thousands they could have even from their own words , and you won't even see the whole prophesy Jesus was pointing too .

you seem to take your scissors and cut up the old testament part because you don't like it.. those are the books jesus taught from for a reason.
Jesus has real brothers , he has clan and he has a nation, it appears as if he turned his back on them for awhile so that he could love you and thus to fullfill a larger plan. he didn't really turn his back them . it only appears like that ..( parable of the 1000 talents) .. and you have no right to take scissors and cut them out of their promises and their inheritances or to do anything to the book that Jesus himself used to teach us who HE and the Father is .

 

[jsimms615]

Thank you, so this is a still future prophecy according to you.


Thanks for answering.

I don't see it as having been fulfilled ever

 

[OneAccordRM]

I don't see it as having been fulfilled ever

I agree, it cannot truly be fulfilled until the return of Christ, solidifying that the Israelites are in Israel, and have dwelt there until the end when Christ returns.


And since you acknowledge that the prophecy is unfulfilled, you acknowledge the prophecy will be fulfilled in the future.

Thank you for your post.

 

[Interplanner]

What I'm not doing is not asserting anything that the apostle's didn't. He taught them 40 days between the Res and Pentecost how to use the OT. I guess he forgot the part on Zech. Or at least the ones that futurists keeping banging on about.

Our friend here, BW, a published author, does the same thing. He spends about 90% of time on the passages the apostles did not speak about. Very curious.

I'm not removing anything by scissors. What I'm doing is finding out the patterns they used FIRST and then going elsewhere. I don't "have to" know what every single OT prophecy was supposed to mean. There is enough to do with 2500 quotes and allusions already.