Third Temple is a Wrong Teaching

[Yekcidmij]

Or can you show me the Israelites in the northern kingdom were never dispersed?

Re posting:

If you're looking for Nothern Israelites that returned after the Assyrian exile of 721BC, rebuilt and never moved again there is at least some sembance of a candidate in the Samaritans living in the area. They were living in the land after the Assyrian conquest, they did rebuild, and they are still there. Many of them seem to have even been pursuaded in early Christianity that Jesus is the Messiah.

Sargon II records that the Assyrians preferred a policy of colonialization:

[the Samar]ians [who had agreed with a hostile king]...I fought with them and decisively defeated them]....carried off as spoil. 50 chariots for my royal force ...[the rest of them I settled in the midst of Assyria]....The Tamudi, Ibadidi, Marsimani and Hayappa, who live in distant Arabia, in the desert, who knew neither overseer nor commander, who never brought tribute to any king--with the help of Ashshur my lord, I defeated them. I deported the rest of them. I settled them in Samaria/Samerina.(Sargon II Inscriptions, COS 2.118A, p. 293)

The inhabitants of Samaria/Samerina, who agreed [and plotted] with a king [hostile to] me, not to do service and not to bring tribute [to Ashshur] and who did battle, I fought against them with the power of the great gods, my lords. I counted as spoil 27,280 people, together with their chariots, and gods, in which they trusted. I formed a unit with 200 of [their] chariots for my royal force. I settled the rest of them in the midst of Assyria. I repopulated Samaria/Samerina more than before. I brought into it people from countries conquered by my hands. I appointed my eunuch as governor over them. And I counted them as Assyrians.(Nimrud Prisms, COS 2.118D, pp. 295-296)

After Assyria conquers Israel and they colonize the area, they run into trouble.

2 Kings 17:24 The king of Assyria brought foreigners from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath, and Sepharvaim and settled them in the cities of Samaria in place of the Israelites. They took possession of Samaria and lived in its cities. 17:25 When they first moved in, they did not worship the Lord. So the Lord sent lions among them and the lions were killing them. 17:26 The king of Assyria was told, “The nations whom you deported and settled in the cities of Samaria do not know the requirements of the God of the land, so he has sent lions among them. They are killing the people because they do not know the requirements of the God of the land.” 17:27 So the king of Assyria ordered, “Take back one of the priests whom you deported from there. He must settle there and teach them the requirements of the God of the land.” 17:28 So one of the priests whom they had deported from Samaria went back and settled in Bethel. He taught them how to worship the Lord.

It seems to me that the Assyrians ran into trouble with the local population that still worshiped Yahweh, so they had to send priests back to placate the locals.

When the Babylonian exiles return to Judah, they are met by people still living there who claim to be worshiping Yahweh:

Ezra 4:1 When the enemies of Judah and Benjamin learned that the former exiles were building a temple for the Lord God of Israel, 4:2 they came to Zerubbabel and the leaders and said to them, “Let us help you build, for like you we seek your God and we have been sacrificing to him from the time of King Esarhaddon of Assyria, who brought us here.”

Nehemiah identifies their leader as Sanballat the Horonite, and if you know geography of the region, Horon is pretty much the foot of Mt Gerizim:

Neh 2:10 When Sanballat the Horonite ...

2:19 But when Sanballat the Horonite...

By the time of Ptolemy (3rd century BC), the Samaritans already had a temple in place:

Josephus Antiquities 13.3.4. Now it came to pass that the Alexandrian Jews, and those Samaritans who paid their worship to the temple that was built in the days of Alexander at Mount Gerizzim, did now make a sedition one against another, and disputed about their temples before Ptolemy himself; the Jews saying that, according to the laws of Moses, the temple was to be built at Jerusalem; and the Samaritans saying that it was to be built at Gerizzim.

Though Josephus places the rebuilding of their temple in the time of Alexander the Great (4th century BC) archeologists today think that the Samaritan temple on Gerizim dated back to the Persian period of the 5th century BC, which would be very close to the time of Sanballat's leadership. Based on Ezra and Nehemiah, it seems that Sanballat and the Samaritans were there in northern Israel and were sacrificing to Yahweh.

Though the leadership and elite were undoubtedly deported by Assyria, it seems that some number of the Israelite north never left. Moving peasants and farmers is an expensive undertaking with little benefit anway, especially in comparison with the benefits of moving the elites and political/military powers. Assyria colonized the North with it's own citizens, but the local Israelite population never stopped worshiping Yahweh, which is why Assyria had to send priests back. They seem to have rebuilt their temple in the 5th century BC, which is probably not coincidentally when the southern Jews also started rebuilding their temple, both undoubtedly thanks to Persian policy of tolerance to local religions in hopes of political stability.

It seems by the time of or very close to the time of Sanballat, the Samaritans were firmly in place in northern Israel with a Temple and worshiping Yahweh. Samaritan descendents are still there and have never moved.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Or can you show me the Israelites in the northern kingdom were never dispersed?

Re posting:



Sargon II records that the Assyrians preferred a policy of colonialization:



After Assyria conquers Israel and they colonize the area, they run into trouble.



It seems to me that the Assyrians ran into trouble with the local population that still worshiped Yahweh, so they had to send priests back to placate the locals.

When the Babylonian exiles return to Judah, they are met by people still living there who claim to be worshiping Yahweh:



Nehemiah identifies their leader as Sanballat the Horonite, and if you know geography of the region, Horon is pretty much the foot of Mt Gerizim:



By the time of Ptolemy (3rd century BC), the Samaritans already had a temple in place:



Though Josephus places the rebuilding of their temple in the time of Alexander the Great (4th century BC) archeologists today think that the Samaritan temple on Gerizim dated back to the Persian period of the 5th century BC, which would be very close to the time of Sanballat's leadership. Based on Ezra and Nehemiah, it seems that Sanballat and the Samaritans were there in northern Israel and were sacrificing to Yahweh.

Though the leadership and elite were undoubtedly deported by Assyria, it seems that some number of the Israelite north never left. Moving peasants and farmers is an expensive undertaking with little benefit anway, especially in comparison with the benefits of moving the elites and political/military powers. Assyria colonized the North with it's own citizens, but the local Israelite population never stopped worshiping Yahweh, which is why Assyria had to send priests back. They seem to have rebuilt their temple in the 5th century BC, which is probably not coincidentally when the southern Jews also started rebuilding their temple, both undoubtedly thanks to Persian policy of tolerance to local religions in hopes of political stability.

It seems by the time of or very close to the time of Sanballat, the Samaritans were firmly in place in northern Israel with a Temple and worshiping Yahweh. Samaritan descendents are still there and have never moved.

Thats great, why do you keep dodging the question? I answered yours


Is Amos 9:14-15 fulfilled or not?

Its simple, no need to rewrite the scripture bro, answer the question or we are clearly finished as you clearly reject the infallibility of Gods word, and one of the commandments give to Christians.

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence

The answer is yes or no, Ive made it easy for you.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Funny how no one can confirm whether or not the prophecy given by God to Amos in 9:14-15 is fulfilled or not.

Cowardice, I didnt know thats how Christians operated.

I didn't know impatience was how Christians operated either. Believe it or not, other things happen during my day that take me away from my computer for a bit. I'm sorry that I can't always respond as your timeline requires.

2Co 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ

As it is written

Yea, that verse isn't talking about the arguments you're making. It's talking about arguments being used against Paul. Specifically the arguments against him had to do with his authority, his physical presence, and manner of speech.

10:7 You are looking at outward appearances. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should reflect on this again: Just as he himself belongs to Christ, so too do we. 10:8 For if I boast somewhat more about our authority that the Lord gave us for building you up and not for tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of doing so. 10:9 I do not want to seem as though I am trying to terrify you with my letters, 10:10 because some say, “His letters are weighty and forceful, but his physical presence is weak and his speech is of no account.” 10:11 Let such a person consider this: What we say by letters when we are absent, we also are in actions when we are present. 10:12 For we would not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who recommend themselves. But when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.​

 

[Yekcidmij]

Thats great, why do you keep dodging the question? I answered yours

Is Amos 9:14-15 fulfilled or not?

Its simple, no need to rewrite the scripture bro, answer the question or we are clearly finished as you clearly reject the infallibility of Gods word, and one of the commandments give to Christians.

1Pe 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence

The answer is yes or no, Ive made it easy for you.

Can you read what I've been posting or not? I clearly just answered your question. I've explained myself and won't kowtow to your presuppositions.

We can't make headway because you can't see Amos 9:15 as talking about the Northern Kingdom.

 

[Danoh]

I'll bite, One Accord - you're wrong. The state of Israel is there as the result of a Zionist, "Never Again" will of their own.

You are confusing God's being able to foresee humanity's working out of its own will against His, with His using their intended results to His benefit. You are confusing that with what Hw has determined He will do despite man's going man's own way.

God's having allowed King Saul's own will against David, in contrast to God's Own, determined will, in King David, is a good example.

Carried to its neccessarily logical extreme, your erroneous arguement has God willing Israel to crucify Jesus in disobedience!

Fact is that the vail remains upon Israel's eyes. It declared - in blood - "we will not have this man reign over us - his blood be upon us and our children!

Fact is, that offered, not only forgiveness of that, but given a foretaste of the powers of.their PROPHESIED WORLD TO COME, they replied, in their blasphemy of the Spirit, they replied by sending Him a murdere Stephen.

Fact is, that with the close of the Book of Acts, God, allowed Israel to be scatterred by Rome, shortly thereafter.

Israel is on its own this time. For it committed the unpardonable sin. It could be blasted out of their by its many, enemies!

Fortunately, God's Covenant concerning them is with Himself!

Fortunately, He allowed their scattering to the four corners of the Earth from where HE HIMSELF will gather them back to HIS land, "OF PROMISE."

 

[OneAccordRM]

Can you read what I've been posting or not? I clearly just answered your question. I've explained myself and won't kowtow to your presuppositions.

We can't make headway because you can't see Amos 9:15 as talking about the Northern Kingdom.

Ok, did the Northern Kingdom of Israel return, never to be removed from the land again?

Amos was from Judah, prophesying in Israel.


When did the northern Kingdom return never to be uprooted from the land again?

Because it happened 3 times when they were uprooted concluding with the Romans in 70ad.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Amos was from Judah, prophesying in Israel.

Yes. And prophecying about Israel. That's why 9:14-15 is about Israel, not Judah.

When did the northern Kingdom return never to be uprooted from the land again?

In the 5th century BC they rebuilt their temple and I observe that there are Samaritans still living there. I think we could point to the time of Sanballat as a time where some sort of Samaritan leadership was established, though after the Assyrians conquer Israel not all of the people were dispersed.

Because it happened 3 times when they were uprooted concluding with the Romans in 70ad.

Source?

 

[OneAccordRM]

Yes. And prophecying about Israel. That's why 9:14-15 is about Israel, not Judah.

Great

In the 5th century BC they rebuilt their temple and I observe that there are Samaritans still living there. I think we could point to the time of Sanballat as a time where some sort of Samaritan leadership was established, though after the Assyrians conquer Israel not all of the people were dispersed.

Are the Samaritans Israelites from the Northern Kingdom to this day?

(you are going to be famous if you can prove this)

Source?

Bible

Assyria, Babylon, Rome

Common knowledge bro.

 

[OneAccordRM]

I dont understand the dancing.

No one can answer whether or not the prophecy, given by God, to Amos, in 9:14-15 is fulfilled.

Unreal.

Its yes or no, its that simple.

I cant make it easier than that.

 

[Interplanner]

There is nothing in the NT understanding of Israel that pits Israel vs Judah etc. That is just a tunnel through which to try preserve 2P2P. Eph 2-3, Gal 3, Rom 4, 9, Acts 13's sermon--none of them have it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Funny how no one can confirm whether or not the prophecy given by God to Amos in 9:14-15 is fulfilled or not.


Cowardice, I didnt know thats how Christians operated.

You again use ad-hominems along with a wide brush.....

I am surprised anyone would respond to you.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7448114-17/#post54283622
LLOJ Branded a heretic

Branded (in color) - YouTube


.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Here is an example.

Is Isaiah 7:14 fulfilled.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.


Yes, prophecy fulfilled.


See how easy that was?

 

[OneAccordRM]

You again use ad-hominems along with a wide brush.....

I am surprised anyone would respond to you.......

http://www.christianforums.com/t7448114-17/#post54283622
LLOJ Branded a heretic



.

If you had the answer, you would gladly and easily give it.


Christians defend the faith boldly, we dont back down.


And we certainly dont dance around scripture.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Are the Samaritans Israelites from the Northern Kingdom to this day?

(you are going to be famous if you can prove this)

There have been DNA studies done, but I'm not a geneticist. I take their claims at face value as I take the claims of Jews and their tribal lineage claims at face value.

Bible

Assyria, Babylon, Rome

Common knowledge bro.

Rome didn't wipe out the Samaritans or expell as they didn't pose the same sorts of problems as the Jews, though Rome didn't treat them too kindly either. It really wasn't until the Bar Kokhba revolt that Judaism was banned and the Jews were banned from Jerusalem. Samaritans weren't exiled though. They seem to have rebuilt their temple again after Bar Kokhba (which was later destryoed in Byzantine timesby Zeno)

 

[OneAccordRM]

There have been DNA studies done, but I'm not a geneticist. I take their claims at face value as I take the claims of Jews and their tribal lineage claims at face value.



Rome didn't wipe out the Samaritans or expell as they didn't pose the same sorts of problems as the Jews, though Rome didn't treat them too kindly either. It really wasn't until the Bar Kokhba revolt that Judaism was banned and the Jews were banned from Jerusalem. Samaritans weren't exiled though. They seem to have rebuilt their temple again after Bar Kokhba (which was later destryoed in Byzantine timesby Zeno)

We are talking about Israelites.

Can you confirm this prophecy as fulfilled, yes or no?

Amo 9:14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
Amo 9:15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.



Notice how God doesnt say "My people Samaritans"


Do you believe the bible is Gods written word?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you had the answer, you would gladly and easily give it.


Christians defend the faith boldly, we dont back down.


And we certainly dont dance around scripture.

Are you saying I and others aren't Christians?
You are borderline on getting reported and may go the way yer bro Old Timer did, if yer not more carefull the way you post.......just say...


.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Rome didn't wipe out the Samaritans

We arent talking about the samaritans, you are in order to evade answering the question.

Allow me to help refresh what subject we are discussing.

Amo 9:14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
Amo 9:15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Christians defend the faith boldly, we dont back down.

Yes, calling people cowards is clearly bold. Especially when you have no idea what the other people are doing during the day. Very bold of you; a misguided bold, sure.

And we certainly dont dance around scripture.

No you just mishandle them. Remember how you misunderstood Amos 9?

 

[OneAccordRM]

Are you saying I and others aren't Christians?
You are borderline on getting reported and may go the way yer bro Old Timer did, if yer not more carefull the way you post.......just say...


.

Is that a threat?

Im willing to die for my faith and you are threatening me because you cant answer a question?

Epic

 

[OneAccordRM]

Yes, calling people cowards is clearly bold. Especially when you have no idea what the other people are doing during the day. Very bold of you; a misguided bold, sure.



No you just mishandle them. Remember how you misunderstood Amos 9?

You sure dont have any problem responding now, and you STILL have yet to affirm Amos 9:14-15 as fulfilled or not.

You are sidestepping into some nonsense about samaritans and DNA.

Stick with the topic at hand