Thinking about confession.

[Xeno.of.athens]

Here is a summary @SabbathBlessings

IN BRIEF​

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1485 "On the evening of that day, the first day of the week," Jesus showed himself to his apostles. "He breathed on them, and said to them: 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"' (Jn 20:19, (22-23).​

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1486 The forgiveness of sins committed after Baptism is conferred by a particular sacrament called the sacrament of conversion, confession, penance, or reconciliation.​

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1487 The sinner wounds God's honor and love, his own human dignity as a man called to be a son of God, and the spiritual well-being of the Church, of which each Christian ought to be a living stone.​

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1488 To the eyes of faith no evil is graver than sin and nothing has worse consequences for sinners themselves, for the Church, and for the whole world.​

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1489 To return to communion with God after having lost it through sin is a process born of the grace of God who is rich in mercy and solicitous for the salvation of men. One must ask for this precious gift for oneself and for others.​

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1490 The movement of return to God, called conversion and repentance, entails sorrow for and abhorrence of sins committed, and the firm purpose of sinning no more in the future. Conversion touches the past and the future and is nourished by hope in God's mercy.​

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1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest's absolution. the penitent's acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation.​

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1492 Repentance (also called contrition) must be inspired by motives that arise from faith. If repentance arises from love of charity for God, it is called "perfect" contrition; if it is founded on other motives, it is called "imperfect."​

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1493 One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience. the confession of venial faults, without being necessary in itself, is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church.​

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1494 The confessor proposes the performance of certain acts of "satisfaction" or "penance" to be performed by the penitent in order to repair the harm caused by sin and to re-establish habits befitting a disciple of Christ.​

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1495 Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.​

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1496 The spiritual effects of the sacrament of Penance are:
- reconciliation with God by which the penitent recovers grace;
- reconciliation with the Church;
- remission of the eternal punishment incurred by mortal sins;
- remission, at least in part, of temporal punishments resulting from sin;
- peace and serenity of conscience, and spiritual consolation;
- an increase of spiritual strength for the Christian battle.​

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1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church.​

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1498 Through indulgences the faithful can obtain the remission of temporal punishment resulting from sin for themselves and also for the souls in Purgatory.​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Of course not. No Catholic says such a thing.

Then I am not sure why you would post 1 John 1:9 as scripture to support confessing to a priest when Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness. There is no scripture that says we confess to a priest, and they have the authority to cleanse us from sins, if one is wanting to follow the Holy scriptures.

That kind of inexact wording is typical of Protestant critiques of alleged Catholic beliefs. What Catholics teach is this:

THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION​

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1422 "Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God's mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion."​

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I. What is This Sacrament Called?​

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1423 It is called the sacrament of conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus' call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father5 from whom one has strayed by sin.​

It is called the sacrament of Penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner's personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction.​

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1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a "confession" - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.​

It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest's sacramental absolution God grants the penitent "pardon and peace."6​

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It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: "Be reconciled to God."7 He who lives by God's merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord's call: "Go; first be reconciled to your brother."8​

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II. Why a Sacrament of Reconciliation after Baptism?​

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1425 "YOU were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."9 One must appreciate the magnitude of the gift God has given us in the sacraments of Christian initiation in order to grasp the degree to which sin is excluded for him who has "put on Christ."10 But the apostle John also says: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."11 and the Lord himself taught us to pray: "Forgive us our trespasses,"12 linking our forgiveness of one another's offenses to the forgiveness of our sins that God will grant us.​

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1426 Conversion to Christ, the new birth of Baptism, the gift of the Holy Spirit and the Body and Blood of Christ received as food have made us "holy and without blemish," just as the Church herself, the Bride of Christ, is "holy and without blemish."13 Nevertheless the new life received in Christian initiation has not abolished the frailty and weakness of human nature, nor the inclination to sin that tradition calls concupiscence, which remains in the baptized such that with the help of the grace of Christ they may prove themselves in the struggle of Christian life.14 This is the struggle of conversion directed toward holiness and eternal life to which the Lord never ceases to call us.15​

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III. The Conversion of the Baptized​

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1427 Jesus calls to conversion. This call is an essential part of the proclamation of the kingdom: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel."16 In the Church's preaching this call is addressed first to those who do not yet know Christ and his Gospel. Also, Baptism is the principal place for the first and fundamental conversion. It is by faith in the Gospel and by Baptism17 that one renounces evil and gains salvation, that is, the forgiveness of all sins and the gift of new life.​

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1428 Christ's call to conversion continues to resound in the lives of Christians. This second conversion is an uninterrupted task for the whole Church who, "clasping sinners to her bosom, (is) at once holy and always in need of purification, (and) follows constantly the path of penance and renewal."18 This endeavor of conversion is not just a human work. It is the movement of a "contrite heart," drawn and moved by grace to respond to the merciful love of God who loved us first.19​

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1429 St. Peter's conversion after he had denied his master three times bears witness to this. Jesus' look of infinite mercy drew tears of repentance from Peter and, after the Lord's resurrection, a threefold affirmation of love for him.20 The second conversion also has a communitarian dimension, as is clear in the Lord's call to a whole Church: "Repent!"21​

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St. Ambrose says of the two conversions that, in the Church, "there are water and tears: the water of Baptism and the tears of repentance."22​

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IV. Interior Penance​

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1430 Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.23​

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1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one's life, with hope in God's mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).24​

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1432 The human heart is heavy and hardened. God must give man a new heart.25 Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"26 God gives us the strength to begin anew. It is in discovering the greatness of God's love that our heart is shaken by the horror and weight of sin and begins to fear offending God by sin and being separated from him. the human heart is converted by looking upon him whom our sins have pierced:27​

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Let us fix our eyes on Christ's blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.​

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1433 Since Easter, the Holy Spirit has proved "the world wrong about sin,"29 i.e., proved that the world has not believed in him whom the Father has sent. But this same Spirit who brings sin to light is also the Consoler who gives the human heart grace for repentance and conversion.30​

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There's more, if you have an interest in reading it then click this link​

These are all Catholic sources, which do not reconcile with the scriptures.

For example, the purpose of baptism is to repent from our sin. It means one has a changed heart and is sorry for their past sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and wants to live a new life for Christ. Infants are not able to make this decision and there is no example of infant baptisms. Jesus as our example was baptized by immersion and we are called to follow His example. He was never baptized as an infant; this is a catholic tradition that does not reconcile with the scriptures.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I am not sure why you would post 1 John 1:9

The answer to that is simple to give: I posted it because it speaks of confession. The verse does not spell out to whom one confesses but it does spell out who forgives. Since the one who forgives is not in dispute, as I observed before, we are left only with the question of to whom one confesses.

Albert Barnes, a Presbyterian commentator, writes:

If we confess our sins - Pardon in the Scriptures, always supposes that there is confession, and there is no promise that it will be imparted unless a full acknowledgment has been made. Compare Ps. 51; Psalm 32:1-11; Luk 5:18 ff; Luk 7:41 ff; Pro 28:13.​

Since some sins involve harm to other human beings - in truth many do, perhaps most do - one's confession ought to follow the Lord's teaching regarding such sins, namely,

But if your brother has sinned against you, go and correct him, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you will have regained your brother. But if he will not listen you, invite with you one or two more, so that every word may stand by the mouth of two or three witnesses. And if he will not listen to them, tell the Church. But if he will not listen to the Church, let him be to you like the pagan and the tax collector. Amen I say to you, whatever you will have bound on earth, shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you will have released on earth, shall be released also in heaven.​

Matthew 18:15-18

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The answer to that is simple to give: I posted it because it speaks of confession. The verse does not spell out to whom one confesses but it does spell out who forgives. Since the one who forgives is not in dispute, as I observed before, we are left only with the question of to whom one confesses.

Albert Barnes, a Presbyterian commentator, writes:

If we confess our sins - Pardon in the Scriptures, always supposes that there is confession, and there is no promise that it will be imparted unless a full acknowledgment has been made. Compare Ps. 51; Psalm 32:1-11; Luk 5:18 ff; Luk 7:41 ff; Pro 28:13.​

Since some sins involve harm to other human beings - in truth many do, perhaps most do - one's confession ought to follow the Lord's teaching regarding such sins, namely,

But if your brother has sinned against you, go and correct him, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you will have regained your brother. But if he will not listen you, invite with you one or two more, so that every word may stand by the mouth of two or three witnesses. And if he will not listen to them, tell the Church. But if he will not listen to the Church, let him be to you like the pagan and the tax collector. Amen I say to you, whatever you will have bound on earth, shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you will have released on earth, shall be released also in heaven.​

Matthew 18:15-18

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I think this clearly tells us who we are to confess our sins to, there is nothing in this scripture that even comes close to telling us we are to confess our sins to a catholic priest or that a priest can cleanse sins.

You keep confusing if someone sins against another we need to confess to that person, not that that person can cleanse of the sin, only Jesus Christ can do that.

If you want to confess to an earthy priest your sins, feel free to do that. For me, I am going to confess my sins to Jesus Christ because only He can cleanse us from all sins and unrighteousness. We do not need a Mediator we can go directly to Jesus- AMEN!

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I think this clearly tells us who we are to confess our sins to

That's okay; you are entitled to think whatever you please. The fact, however, remains that it does not say "If we confess our sins to HIM, HE is faithful ..." It also does not say "If we confess our sins to the bishop, he is faithful ...". It says what it says, and a person must decide for himself or herself how to read it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That's okay; you are entitled to think whatever you please. The fact, however, remains that it does not say "If we confess our sins to HIM, HE is faithful ..." It also does not say "If we confess our sins to the bishop, he is faithful ...". It says what it says, and a person must decide for himself or herself how to read it.

It's a given. The whole verse is about Jesus, not anyone earthly.

 

[Valletta]

This is probably one of the most misunderstood scriptures in some denominations.

First of all Christ is the Rock, not Peter.

Deuteronomy 32:4​

“The Rock, His work is perfect, for all His ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is He.

Psalm 18:2​

The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

The Church is built on Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the power, not man, created beings.

Let’s read in context from Matthew 16:19 and what Christ is saying just before that also helps. “Simon Peter said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God’, and Jesus said, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-jona, for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my Father which is in heaven’.

And He says, ‘You are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church”. He’s not talking about the declaration of Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus is going to build the church, the church is built on Jesus Christ.

‘And I will give you the keys of the kingdom’—now He’s not talking to Peter, He’s talking to all the disciples who are there in this dialogue. And He says, ‘I’m giving you the keys to the kingdom meaning, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. They had the freedom, in delivering the gospel to people, to make an eternal difference. What they did on earth would be seen in heaven. People who are…. Evil spirits and habits that were bound on earth would be bound for the world to come and it was saying that those who were loosed from those things would be loosed in the world to come.


This is the great commission from Jesus to the diciples:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


The Church of Jesus Christ is everything Jesus taught the focus is Jesus Christ, the power is Jesus Christ and according the scripture, there is no mediator between Christ and His church. To try to insert one when Jesus said otherwise I think is a big mistake.

As I have pointed out so many times, the word "Rock" was often applied to God in the Bible. Thus it was of great importance when Jesus renamed Simon as Rock and then give Rock the keys to the kingdom. As in Isaiah, and Jesus used words parallelling Isaiah, the king gives the keys to the kingdom to his prime minister as a sign of authority. But also renaming Simon as Rock showed it was not just a civil service position being given to Rock, but a holy one.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

As I have pointed out so many times, the word "Rock" was often applied to God in the Bible. Thus it was of great importance when Jesus renamed Simon as Rock and then give Rock the keys to the kingdom. As in Isaiah, and Jesus used words parallelling Isaiah, the king gives the keys to the kingdom to his prime minister as a sign of authority. But also renaming Simon as Rock showed it was not just a civil service position being given to Rock, but a holy one.

This was already addressed here: Thinking about confession.

Just common sense alone should tell someone the church is built on Jesus Christ, He is the Rock throughout scripture. The Glory is on Jesus Christ, not humans.

There is also nothing linking Peter to the Catholic church, this is a fable of the RCC.

Perhaps this will help....

and from a former Catholic

 

[Valletta]

This was already addressed here: Thinking about confession.

Just common sense alone should tell someone the church is built on Jesus Christ, He is the Rock throughout scripture. The Glory is on Jesus Christ, not humans.

There is also nothing linking Peter to the Catholic church, this is a fable of the RCC.

Perhaps this will help....

As I said, I have so many times pointed out the Rock is used to describe God in the Bible, and thus Jesus renaming Simon as Rock was of such monumental importance. Jesus is the cornerstone of the Catholic Church. But as the Bible explains, when the king in the Davidic kingdom is gone the prime minister has full authority--and the giving by the king of the keys to the kingdom confirms it. Perhaps someday you will visit the site of Peter's burial, it is two levels down at St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City. You can look up from that location right into the dome.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There is also nothing linking Peter to the Catholic church, this is a fable of the RCC.

This sort of claim arises from anti-Catholic sources such as "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop and "The Great Controversy" by Ellen White. It is a flimsy claim built on fanciful "evidence".

Karl Keating wrote a book called "Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on 'Romanism' by 'Bible Christians' " which is useful reading for those most affected by anti-Catholic tracts, teaching, and books.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This sort of claim arises from anti-Catholic sources such as "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop and "The Great Controversy" by Ellen White. It is a flimsy claim built on fanciful "evidence".

The evidence is based on scripture and there is no scripture that says Peter is a pope or the Catholic church gets its succession from the apostles, history would indicate something different. God’s Church is a remnant according to the scriptures. Revelation 12:17 with specific traits that I do not see the RCC following. I’ve noticed a trend with Catholics they put glory back to the church when our focus and all Glory should be on Jesus Christ.

Anyway, I‘m probably going to bow out as I don’t see us coming to any agreement. We will all find out soon enough when Jesus comes back and I pray we will all be able to stand when He comes.

Take care.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

there is no scripture that says Peter is a pope

"Pope" isn't used in scripture but there is a scripture about saint Peter spoken by the Lord, Jesus Christ:

Simon Peter responded by saying, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."​

And in response, Jesus said to him:​

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."​

Matthew 16:16-19

 

[SabbathBlessings]

"Pope" isn't used in scripture but there is a scripture about saint Peter spoken by the Lord, Jesus Christ:

Simon Peter responded by saying, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."​

And in response, Jesus said to him:​

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."​

Matthew 16:16-19

There is nothing that says that Peter is a pope of the Catholic church or is the Rock in scripture. The Church of Jesus Christ is built on Jesus Christ.

Anyway- take care.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Anyway, I‘m probably going to bow out as I don’t see us coming to any agreement. We will all find out soon enough when Jesus comes back and I pray we will all be able to stand when He comes.

"Pope" isn't used in scripture but there is a scripture about saint Peter spoken by the Lord, Jesus Christ:

Simon Peter responded by saying, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."​

And in response, Jesus said to him:​

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father, who is in heaven. And I say to you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound, even in heaven. And whatever you shall release on earth shall be released, even in heaven."​

Matthew 16:16-19

Nonsense.

That was a short bow

 

[Valletta]

The evidence is based on scripture and there is no scripture that says Peter is a pope or the Catholic church gets its succession from the apostles, history would indicate something different. God’s Church is a remnant according to the scriptures. Revelation 12:17 with specific traits that I do not see the RCC following. I’ve noticed a trend with Catholics they put glory back to the church when our focus and all Glory should be on Jesus Christ.

Anyway, I‘m probably going to bow out as I don’t see us coming to any agreement. We will all find out soon enough when Jesus comes back and I pray we will all be able to stand when He comes.

Take care.

John 21:15-17 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep."

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

There is nothing that says that Peter is a pope of the Catholic church or is the Rock in scripture.

Well, aside from Jesus naming saint Peter "Rock" and calling Peter the rock upon which the Lord builds his church I suppose there are only a few hundred places where saint Peter is placed in the lead group among the apostles and a few places where Peter is given responsibility to feed the sheep, which is to say, feed the church. So okay, your post follows in the tradition of "no such scripture exists" posts that you've written only to have scripture shown that says exactly what your post says, "no scripture ever says".

One feels some sadness to see the end of such wonderful posts which supply such good opportunities to present the gospel message in response. Thank you for your contributions, I truly appreciate the work you've done.