Futurist Only There will be wars and rumors of wars but the end is not yet.

[Gregory Thompson]

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. (Matthew 24:6)

I take this to mean, if someone is teaching an "end of the world" or "end of the age" prophecy based on a war occurring, the prediction is automatically disqualified. This is because Jesus even said, the end is not yet.

 

[Unqualified]

Right. The end of the world is not WW3.

 

[Jamdoc]

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. (Matthew 24:6)

I take this to mean, if someone is teaching an "end of the world" or "end of the age" prophecy based on a war occurring, the prediction is automatically disqualified. This is because Jesus even said, the end is not yet.

War between men is part of the first stages of "the end" and helps set up "the end" but it is not itself "the end" things continue on past the war, even a nuclear war, prophetically. The first 4 seals of Revelation involve a war that results in killing 1/4 of the people on the planet, but that's early stuff, things progress past that, and to some degree recover to a "new normal" until the wrath of God falls on the Earth.

 

[keras]

The first 4 seals of Revelation involve a war that results in killing 1/4 of the people on the planet, but that's early stuff,

Right; those disasters have happened and continue now.

and to some degree recover to a "new normal" until the wrath of God falls on the Earth.

Just as Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5:3, there will be a time, [short] when
peace is achieved and people will feel secure.
THEN the enemies will try to destroy Israel, [the Jewish State and true Christian Israel] but that will trigger the Lord's fiery wrath and He will destroy them all. Psalms 7:12-16, Micah 4:11-12, +

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The first 4 seals of Revelation involve a war that results in killing 1/4 of the people on the planet

So if events resembling those 4 seals happen, world population goes 1X0.75, then later on goes 1X5.6. The sign of losing 1/4th of the population still happened. Is that the reasoning?

 

[Jamdoc]

So if events resembling those 4 seals happen, world population goes 1X0.75, then later on goes 1X5.6. The sign of losing 1/4th of the population still happened. Is that the reasoning?

Well that's the figures given in Revelation, the first 4 seals kill 1/4 of the population of earth then the 6th trumpet kills another 1/3 (so about half the population before the seals total), no death tolls are given anywhere else, but it's likely to be substantial.
But things keep happening and there are people still experiencing them so.. yeah, the war itself is not the end only "the beginning of the end".. and I think more likely, the first 4 seals are used to set up a "new normal" global government, so recovery from that war takes place to some degree, there may even be a gap of years. Revelation 6 gives no time markers for the first 4 seals, so it can be before the 70th week, the only time marker given, is the 6th seal, which per Jesus in Matthew 24, happens after the midpoint of the 70th week.
the first four seals however, I do believe point to a world war.
the 4th seal mentions beasts of the earth. People think "wild animals" but when Revelation talks about beasts, it's gentile empires, or the rulers of them.
So 4th seal, involves gentile empires going to war and killing 1/4 of the people on the planet through war, famine, and disease resulting from it. Whether this war uses nuclear or biological weapons is speculative, but I think it likely given the death toll of it.

but 3/4 survive.. and rebuild, and the wrath of God comes later (Revelation 6:17)
so the big potentially nuclear war?
not the end.
just the beginning.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well that's the figures given in Revelation, the first 4 seals kill 1/4 of the population of earth then the 6th trumpet kills another 1/3 (so about half the population before the seals total), no death tolls are given anywhere else, but it's likely to be substantial.
But things keep happening and there are people still experiencing them so.. yeah, the war itself is not the end only "the beginning of the end".. and I think more likely, the first 4 seals are used to set up a "new normal" global government, so recovery from that war takes place to some degree, there may even be a gap of years. Revelation 6 gives no time markers for the first 4 seals, so it can be before the 70th week, the only time marker given, is the 6th seal, which per Jesus in Matthew 24, happens after the midpoint of the 70th week.
the first four seals however, I do believe point to a world war.
the 4th seal mentions beasts of the earth. People think "wild animals" but when Revelation talks about beasts, it's gentile empires, or the rulers of them.
So 4th seal, involves gentile empires going to war and killing 1/4 of the people on the planet through war, famine, and disease resulting from it. Whether this war uses nuclear or biological weapons is speculative, but I think it likely given the death toll of it.

but 3/4 survive.. and rebuild, and the wrath of God comes later (Revelation 6:17)
so the big potentially nuclear war?
not the end.
just the beginning.

Interesting, guess we'll see. Possible chance of something outside the box.

 

[Jamdoc]

Interesting, guess we'll see. Possible chance of something outside the box.

With how close we've come to nuclear war in the past and it been narrowly averted? I can only see the hand of God restraining man from doing this.
If God has been sealing us from doing it? Well.. at some point God removes seals, and we see the worst of what man is capable of.
So I think it highly likely that includes nuclear and biological warfare.
The fact that the bible says 1/4 however, should reassure us that such an event, while catastrophic... is not the end. We won't end the world through such means.. or through climate change.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

With how close we've come to nuclear war in the past and it been narrowly averted? I can only see the hand of God restraining man from doing this.
If God has been sealing us from doing it? Well.. at some point God removes seals, and we see the worst of what man is capable of.
So I think it highly likely that includes nuclear and biological warfare.
The fact that the bible says 1/4 however, should reassure us that such an event, while catastrophic... is not the end. We won't end the world through such means.. or through climate change.

it could be something as simple as a forest being destroyed when the planet is already to capacity in terms of oxygen supply.

then all the war imagery is related to a conflict of greed.

 

[Jamdoc]

it could be something as simple as a forest being destroyed when the planet is already to capacity in terms of oxygen supply.

then all the war imagery is related to a conflict of greed.

eh.. scarcity certainly plays into it. the 4th seal, which I see as a world war, follows an economic collapse and hyperinflation and famine (3rd seal).. so yeah, warring because resources are scarce and economies are in shambles.
However the initial shock of peace being taken from the world happens prior to the 3rd seal. In fact most people see the second seal as the world war.

But I believe it as a conflict that later escalates into that world war.

1st seal I see as world conquered by a deception/deceiver (the rider on the white horse is not shown with arrows, therefore it's not conquest by warfare)
Actually look how Daniel 11 plays into that

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

So a ruler that is not given rulership through normal means.
Followed by peace taken from the world, okay there's your wars and rumors of wars... but it's not like.. this massive death toll war, that comes 4th seal
then 3rd seal, economic collapse, hyperinflation (what is meant by the pair of scales), and famine
THEN
the conflict, likely started in the second seal, expands and escalates to something that kills 1/4 of the world population.

So it appears as connected, but also escalating from one thing to the next.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

eh.. scarcity certainly plays into it. the 4th seal, which I see as a world war, follows an economic collapse and hyperinflation and famine (3rd seal).. so yeah, warring because resources are scarce and economies are in shambles.
However the initial shock of peace being taken from the world happens prior to the 3rd seal. In fact most people see the second seal as the world war.

But I believe it as a conflict that later escalates into that world war.

1st seal I see as world conquered by a deception/deceiver (the rider on the white horse is not shown with arrows, therefore it's not conquest by warfare)
Actually look how Daniel 11 plays into that

So a ruler that is not given rulership through normal means.
Followed by peace taken from the world, okay there's your wars and rumors of wars... but it's not like.. this massive death toll war, that comes 4th seal
then 3rd seal, economic collapse, hyperinflation (what is meant by the pair of scales), and famine
THEN
the conflict, likely started in the second seal, expands and escalates to something that kills 1/4 of the world population.

So it appears as connected, but also escalating from one thing to the next.

Ruling with flatteries is what democracy is all about.

 

[Jamdoc]

Ruling with flatteries is what democracy is all about.

That is possible yes, but Daniel 11 says he comes to power through "a small people" not a great kingdom. Daniel 7, 8, 11, the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8 always starts out small and insignificant at first. Daniel 11 it's a vile person who starts out small and insignificant and rises to power unconventionally.

The other caveat is... don't assume that the rider of the white horse, the little horn/etc is the one who's going to war in the 2nd and 4th seals. Each seal in Revelation 6 is represented by a different rider for the first 4 seals. So people looking at like, Antichrist coming from the US, or Antichrist comes from Russia or whatever, then Russia and America go to war with each other and Antichrist's led country is the victor (IE the way a lot of those who interpret Gog/Magog from Ezekiel 38 will view it, though they don't think Gog is Antichrist, but they see 1 sided Russian victory so Russia can invade Israel), would be off, if say.. Antichrist comes from the middle east, from a small people.

4th seal being world war doesn't mean Antichrist is directly involved in any participating Nation. There can be some goading and influence, but it could be Russia US with a mid east beast hanging on the sidelines, it could be China and India going at it (with more than just rocks and microwave weapons this time). It's different riders.. so.. different participants.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The other caveat is... don't assume that the rider of the white horse, the little horn/etc is the one who's going to war in the 2nd and 4th seals.

I tend to not make any assumptions since the people of faith have a bad track record of interpreting signs, leading to a majority of the nation missing their messiah. Jesus even said, it is not for you to know the signs my Father has set in His power. If that is to be interpreted literally, it would explain the various conflicting views over these prophecies.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I tend to not make any assumptions since the people of faith have a bad track record of interpreting signs, leading to a majority of the nation missing their messiah. Jesus even said, it is not for you to know the signs my Father has set in His power. If that is to be interpreted literally, it would explain the various conflicting views over these prophecies.

I thought Scripture said we can't know the day or hour, but we could know the signs, which is the point of the Olivet discourse unless you believe Jesus was referring only to the destruction of AD 70? What Scripture verses are you referring to about not knowing the signs?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I thought Scripture said we can't know the day or hour, but we could know the signs, which is the point of the Olivet discourse unless you believe Jesus was referring only to the destruction of AD 70? What Scripture verses are you referring to about not knowing the signs?

It's part of the background noise of the gospels.

We can know the signs, they're written down. However, we could be afflicted with the same spiritual malady that the teachers of the religion had at his first coming.

They knew the teachings, but did not understand, because their heart was far from God. Something to keep in mind.