There is NO risk to me if I am wrong about "certain" doctrinal positions.

[YeshuaFan]

(a number of people have asked that this topic be posted in a more open area of CF - so here it is)

Realizing first of all - that there are saved saints in all Christian denominations:

As a Seventh-day Adventist -- if I am wrong about my beliefs – there is still no risk to me.

1. IF I am wrong to be a Christian and instead Atheists have the right belief – there is no risk to me. I get the exact same “glorious ending” as the atheist true believer – the hole in ground ending

2. IF I am wrong about rejecting the secret rapture and millennial kingdom on Earth (when I say that in the future the saints are raptured at Christ's Rev 19 appearing according to Matt 24 - and the saints spend the millennium with Christ in heaven, while earth is desolate for that period of time) – there is no risk to me. I get raptured anyway and learn about the details in heaven.

3. IF I am wrong about rejecting OSAS (once saved always saved) and the OSAS groups are right – there is no risk to me. I am saved by accepting Jesus as my savior either way.

4. IF I am wrong about the Dan 7 pre-advent judgment being the 2 Cor 5:10 judgment also in Rom 2:6-16, and so then those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me.

5. IF I am wrong about the 7th day Sabbath of Ex 20, and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me – let each one observe the day as he is persuaded Rom 14.

6. IF I am wrong about God’s health message and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me. The Adventist church has one of the 5 “blue zones” in the world, and live 5-7 years longer on average.

7. If I am wrong about Rev 14 (three Angel's messages) being the final warning to mankind before the tribulation-plagues of Rev 16 and the Rev 19 appearing of Christ, and those who ignore it are right, then still there is no risk to me for reading the warning as it is scripture and so is not a problem to share it "anyway".

8. IF I am wrong about rejecting "communion with the dead" (958) and those who choose to commune with the dead are right - there is no risk to me.

958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."500 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective. "
​

In each one of these example there is an argument that could be made to show that “if I am right” on a given point above and someone rejects that point entirely, then “some risk” might exist for them.

===========================

The are other Christian groups that share some of my same beliefs above and so I think they too would also have "no risk" even if they are wrong on the position above that they share with me.

========================== Two real life examples

1. Noah - if he is wrong then he has a "boat" in his yard for a long time but nobody dies. If he is right -- then it is a huge risk to those who ignored the warning message

2. John the baptizer - and his "repent for the time is fulfilled" message about the Christ - before Jesus meets John. If John is wrong then just a lot more "repent and be baptized" sermons until he dies. But if those who ignored John's message are wrong - the nation itself is at risk of rejecting the Messiah.

If you are trusting keeping the Sabbath and Jewish dietary law helped get you saved, that is another gospel!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

WHAT IS UNACCEPTABLE RISK AND NO RISK?

For me personally, as the OP has pointed out the simple test here is who do we believe and follow; God or man, and does what we believe and follow lead us to God or away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God as shown in 1 John 2:3-4? Do we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? This will be the test coming to everyone of us according to the scriptures. A great test is coming to all of Christianity and that is who do we worship and bow down to? According to the very words of Jesus anyone following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9 so the test coming to all of us will be who do we believe and follow, God or man?

For me, there is not a single scripture in all of Gods' Word that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments written with God's own finger has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is simply a man-made teaching and tradition handed down by the Mother Church (RCC) to Protestantism as foretold in the scriptures (Daniel 7:25) that the Christian world continues to believe and follow after the great reformation. According to the scriptures Babylon has fallen and God is calling us all out (Revelation 18:1-5; Revelation 14:7-12). I believe the scriptures teach that God has His people are in every church (John 10:16) living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them through His Word and according to the scriptures, God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject them so in times of ignorance when we may not know any better God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he expects all men everywhere to believe and follow it (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17; see also John 12:47-48).

According to the scriptures, I believe that, God is calling His people, (everyone of us; myself included) where ever we might be through His Word, to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God, back to the pure Word of God (Revelation 18:1-5; Revelation 14:7-12). This is because, God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). Jesus says the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth for the father is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 17:17; John 6:64). I believe a great test is coming to the Christian world which will be over who do we choose to believe and follow; God or man? Mankind had fallen in Eden because they choose not to believe and follow Gods' Word but choose to believe and follow the words of the serpent over the Words of God. (Genesis 3). Today God has given us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); in His 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) written with His own finger (Exodus 32:16) that define sin (moral wrong doing) when broken and righteousness (moral right doing) when obeyed. The test that will come to all mankind just prior to the second coming will again be, who do we believe and follow; the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God or the Words of God?

For me personally, I see in all of Gods' Word in both the old and new testament scriptures, that the only time God pours out His judgements to mankind is only because of sin and unbelief which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of Gods' commandments and disregarding Gods Word. This is what we will be judged by according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. To take this lightly I believe when the scriptures teach that God destroyed the whole world with a flood or Sodom and Gomorrah with fire because of sin and unbelief, which are examples of what is to come before the second coming of Christ in the clouds of Heaven to all those who practice known unrepentant sin (knowingly continuing to break Gods law and rejecting God's Word), to me this is unacceptable risk in my view according to the scriptures.

Fearing God more then those who teach tradition over the scriptures, according to the scriptures is the beginning of wisdom. I believe and follow God's Word now because I love God because he has shown me that he first loved me and sacrificed everything for me so that I can be with him. All I can do now is share His Word with all those who He has given eyes to see and ears to hear according to the scriptures. As it is written Gods' sheep will hear His voice and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow do so because they are not His sheep according to the scriptures (John 10:26-27). I hope we can all meet again in God's Kingdom. For me though there is only no risk to anyone of us by believing and following what God's Word says *John 3:36.

Take Care all.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are trusting keeping the Sabbath and Jewish dietary law helped get you saved,

There is no "help get you saved" in the OP. Have you read it?

 

[BobRyan]

Then you must keep All 10 commandments "perfectly"..Not just one command in order to fulfill the law.. .

Are you talking about Rom 8?

Rom 8:
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,...."

In any case - the OP is not taking those additional steps that look into the evidence for one side or the other - just noting that at the start - there is a contrast between what view "has risk" and which one "has no risk". Noticing that detail - one still has to look into these various Bible texts to find the right answer.

No I'm referring to James 2:10...for whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumble at just ONE POINT is guilty of BREAKING ALL of it. ..

Is James 2 calling for rebellion against the Word of God in your POV?

James 2:8 8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
​

Are you saying James wants people to go ahead and murder and commit adultery so as to avoid any problem of "keeping" what God has commanded...in your POV?
Do you see any "risk" with that idea?

I appears to me that James 2 means that to "take God's name in vain" in violation of Ex 20:7 is to be guilty of "all" the moral law of God. That does not look like James calling for rebellion against God's Command in my POV, but you have free will of course and can choose as you wish.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.​

One path has risk... the other does not.

 

[BobRyan]

The Reversed version of the Bible says that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in Him and keeps the Saturday Sabbath will not perish but will have eternal life.

Does not sound like a bible text to me.

But this does...

1 Cor 7:18 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Where "the first commandment with a promise" - is "Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

Interesting how Matt 19, Rom 7, James 2, Rom 2:13-16 , Rom 13 all agree on that point in Eph 6:2

I could add something like "one person chooses to accept those texts" and ask "does this place them at risk"?

 

[pasifika]

Are you talking about Rom 8?

Rom 8:
He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,...."

In any case - the OP is not taking those additional steps that look into the evidence for one side or the other - just noting that at the start - there is a contrast between what view "has risk" and which one "has no risk". Noticing that detail - one still has to look into these various Bible texts to find the right answer.



Is James 2 calling for rebellion against the Word of God in your POV?

James 2:8 8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
​

Are you saying James wants people to go ahead and murder and commit adultery so as to avoid any problem of "keeping" what God has commanded...in your POV?
Do you see any "risk" with that idea?

I appears to me that James 2 means that to "take God's name in vain" in violation of Ex 20:7 is to be guilty of "all" the moral law of God. That does not look like James calling for rebellion against God's Command in my POV, but you have free will of course and can choose as you wish.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.​

One path has risk... the other does not.

Walking according to the flesh is shown by disobedience to the law Romans 8...and everyone falls under that category. Hence why we need to be born again through the Spirit..

Walking according to the Spirit and being lead by the Spirit will eventually make ones to obey God's law..

The way of the "Spirit" is Not the same as the "letter" ie 10 commandments since the "letter" was given through a "covenant" which different from the covenant in which the "Spirit" is given ...follow the "letter" leads to death, and the "Spirit" leads to life 2Corins..

As for James 2, hes telling those lawbreakers who broke one command that they also broke All commands as well..commandments are not independent of one another. This is regarding the law that condemn or law of Sin (10 commandments ) Not the law of the Spirit "the law of Faith"...

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Does not sound like a bible text to me.

But this does...

1 Cor 7:18 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
Where "the first commandment with a promise" - is "Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

Interesting how Matt 19, Rom 7, James 2, Rom 2:13-16 , Rom 13 all agree on that point in Eph 6:2

I could add something like "one person chooses to accept those texts" and ask "does this place them at risk"?

How about this one then?
"Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, if you keep the Saturday Sabbath, they will be as white as snow."

Here is still another one:

"For those who received Him [Christ] and keep the Saturday Sabbath, He gave them the right to be called the children of God."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How about this one then?
"Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, if you keep the Saturday Sabbath, they will be as white as snow."

Which can be also translated by some as "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet they will be as white as snow so you can continue in known unrepentant sin" Of course not! According to the scriptures, sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11) and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of Gods' dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace according to Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; 1 John 2:3-4.

Here is still another one:"For those who received Him [Christ] and keep the Saturday Sabbath, He gave them the right to be called the children of God."

Which also can be also translated by others as; "For as many as received him gave He them the right to be called the children of God and continue in known unrepentant sin"? Of course none of those statements are true. According to the scriptures no one "receives Christ" by not believing and following what God's Word says. Just as the scriptures teach that the difference between the "children of God" and the "children of the devil" is that the children of God do not practice known unrepentant sin according to 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14. God's salvation is from sin not a license to continue to practice sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments and not believing Gods' Word (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23).

Take Care.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Which can be also translated by some as "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet they will be as white as snow so you can continue in known unrepentant sin" Sin is the transgression of the law according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11) and the wages of sin is death to all those who reject the gift of Gods' dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace according to Hebrews 10:26-31; John 3:36; 1 John 2:3-4.

Which also can be also translated by others as; "For as many as received him gave He them the right to be called the Children of God and continue in known unrepentant sin"? Of course none of those statements are true. According to the scriptures no one "receives Christ" by not believing and following what God's Word says. Just as the scriptures teach that the difference between the "children of God" and the "children of the devil" is that the children of God do not practice known unrepentant sin according to 1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

Take Care.

Here is another one from the Reversed Version:

"t seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things, and above all, ensure that you keep the Saturday Sabbath in order to keep your salvation. Farewell. 30So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they assembled the congregation and delivered the letter" (Acts 15:28-30).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here is another one from the Reversed Version:

"t seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things, and above all, ensure that you keep the Saturday Sabbath in order to keep your salvation. Farewell. 30So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they assembled the congregation and delivered the letter" (Acts 15:28-30).

Great one thanks. I agree with Paul, as shown in the context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 that "circumcision" from the law of Moses is not a requirement for salvation which Acts 15:28-30 is discussing and seeking answers over. Which of course has nothing to do with God's 10 commandments being Gods' standard of right and wrong proven in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where some time latter after the decision of Jerusalem in Acts 15 Paul says to the Corinthian gentile believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. You might have your scriptures mixed up in your post. Perhaps you mean Acts of the Apostles 15:21. God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what God's Word says. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils which is why Jesus says "By their fruits you shall know them". That is who is from God and who is not (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9).

Take Care.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Great one thanks. I agree with Paul, as shown in the context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 that "circumcision" from the law of Moses is not a requirement for salvation which Acts 15:28-30 is discussing and seeking answers over. Which of course has nothing to do with God's 10 commandments being Gods' standard of right and wrong proven in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where some time latter after the decision of Jerusalem in Acts 15 Paul says to the Corinthian gentile believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. You might have your scriptures mixed up in your post. Perhaps you mean Acts of the Apostles 15:21. God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what God's Word says. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils which is why Jesus says "By their fruits you shall know them". That is who is from God and who is not (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9).

Take Care.

The only reason why the council at Jerusalem made the recommendations was to restore the unity between the Jewish and Gentile believers. They were never requirements for salvation. You should read my quote of the passage and compare it with the actual one from a standard version of the Bible. I added the extra bit about the Saturday Sabbath because that is what SDAs actually believe, rather than what the KJV version actually says.

Here is another quote that SDAs believe:

"[We] know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, except keeping the Saturday Sabbath, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and by the one work of the law, that is, the Saturday Sabbath, because by the other works of the law no one will be justified" (Galatians 2:16, Reversed Version).

 

[Acts29]

(a number of people have asked that this topic be posted in a more open area of CF - so here it is)

Realizing first of all - that there are saved saints in all Christian denominations:

As a Seventh-day Adventist -- if I am wrong about my beliefs – there is still no risk to me.

1. IF I am wrong to be a Christian and instead Atheists have the right belief – there is no risk to me. I get the exact same “glorious ending” as the atheist true believer – the hole in ground ending

2. IF I am wrong about rejecting the secret rapture and millennial kingdom on Earth (when I say that in the future the saints are raptured at Christ's Rev 19 appearing according to Matt 24 - and the saints spend the millennium with Christ in heaven, while earth is desolate for that period of time) – there is no risk to me. I get raptured anyway and learn about the details in heaven.

3. IF I am wrong about rejecting OSAS (once saved always saved) and the OSAS groups are right – there is no risk to me. I am saved by accepting Jesus as my savior either way.

4. IF I am wrong about the Dan 7 pre-advent judgment being the 2 Cor 5:10 judgment also in Rom 2:6-16, and so then those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me.

5. IF I am wrong about the 7th day Sabbath of Ex 20, and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me – let each one observe the day as he is persuaded Rom 14.

6. IF I am wrong about God’s health message and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me. The Adventist church has one of the 5 “blue zones” in the world, and live 5-7 years longer on average.

7. If I am wrong about Rev 14 (three Angel's messages) being the final warning to mankind before the tribulation-plagues of Rev 16 and the Rev 19 appearing of Christ, and those who ignore it are right, then still there is no risk to me for reading the warning as it is scripture and so is not a problem to share it "anyway".

8. IF I am wrong about rejecting "communion with the dead" (958) and those who choose to commune with the dead are right - there is no risk to me.

958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."500 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective. "
​

In each one of these example there is an argument that could be made to show that “if I am right” on a given point above and someone rejects that point entirely, then “some risk” might exist for them.

===========================

The are other Christian groups that share some of my same beliefs above and so I think they too would also have "no risk" even if they are wrong on the position above that they share with me.

========================== Two real life examples

1. Noah - if he is wrong then he has a "boat" in his yard for a long time but nobody dies. If he is right -- then it is a huge risk to those who ignored the warning message

2. John the baptizer - and his "repent for the time is fulfilled" message about the Christ - before Jesus meets John. If John is wrong then just a lot more "repent and be baptized" sermons until he dies. But if those who ignored John's message are wrong - the nation itself is at risk of rejecting the Messiah.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Since they shall all be taught by God, it indicates not everyone, or perhaps no one, will have a full understanding in this life. In general, you are right in the points you made.

There is one thing to consider. The law. There are two distinct blood covenants. Not one. Moses sprinkled blood on the people of Israel only in the first covenant. Jesus shed His own blood for all mankind in the second covenant. Many have sought to combine the two in some way and straddle the fence.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law

James 2:12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Two covenants. Two judgments. In the law of liberty, which is faith in Christ, you are completely free to rest on the Sabbath, celebrate Tabernacles, etc. The questions is, how far can you go into keeping the first covenant law before you will be judged by it? I don't know the answer.

For example, keeping the Sabbath was never a requirement in the second covenant. For those Christians that keep the Sabbath, do they do so because they just want to? Or, do they keep the Sabbath because they believe God requires them to? If the latter, does that remove them from the law of liberty and affix them to the first covenant? If so, there will be a drastic difference in inheritance in the end. Just something to think about.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The only reason why the council at Jerusalem made the recommendations was to restore the unity between the Jewish and Gentile believers. They were never requirements for salvation. You should read my quote of the passage and compare it with the actual one from a standard version of the Bible. I added the extra bit about the Saturday Sabbath because that is what SDAs actually believe, rather than what the KJV version actually says

Well that is not true or truthful at all. We believe what the scriptures say. What you posted was not what the scriptures say. As posted earlier, the context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 shows that the question being considered at Jerusalem was "Is circumcision a requirement of salvation?" Which of course has nothing to do with God's 10 commandments being Gods' standard of right and wrong. This is shown also in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where some time latter after the decision of Jerusalem in Acts 15 Paul says to the Corinthian gentile believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Here is another quote that SDAs believe: "[We] know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, except keeping the Saturday Sabbath, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and by the one work of the law, that is, the Saturday Sabbath, because by the other works of the law no one will be justified" (Galatians 2:16, Reversed Version).

There you go again being untruthful, as that is not what we believe whatsoever and your adding into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and teach. As posted earlier, God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what God's Word says. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils which is why Jesus says "By their fruits you shall know them". That is who is from God and who is not (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9). No one has ever said to you or do they believe that anyone is justified by the works of the law which is what the scriptures actually say. All the law does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith. The scripture you quoted however does not say as some believe, "[We] know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, and we are all now free to break God's 10 commandments as long as they have faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ to be disobedient to God's law, and break God's commandments, because we are not justified by law keeping therefore are free to continue sinning" (Galatians 2:16, Reversed Version).

According to the scriptures that would be the description of the wicked according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. The above interpretation of the scriptures therefore goes against the scriptures and is not biblical. Anyhow, dear friend, the OP is all about risk isn't it? We are all free to believe and do as we wish. So I guess I will leave it with you and hope to see you and everyone here in Gods' kingdom as we all answer only to God for the words of God we accept or reject come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. I guess we all have nothing to worry about if what we believe is true. Yet here we all are believing different things. The OP is simply asking the questions what is the risk to what we believe? Of course we all cannot be right and based on what you believe there is either risk or no risk as it will lead us to God through His Word or away from Him not to follow His Word. This is only a question though that each one of us can answer for ourselves personally through the test of the scriptures as shown in 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10.

Take Care.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well that is not true or truthful at all. We believe what the scriptures say. What you posted was not what the scriptures say. As posted earlier, the context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2 shows that the question being considered at Jerusalem was "Is circumcision a requirement of salvation?" Which of course has nothing to do with God's 10 commandments being Gods' standard of right and wrong. This is shown also in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where some time latter after the decision of Jerusalem in Acts 15 Paul says to the Corinthian gentile believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God.

There you go again being untruthful, as that is not what we believe whatsoever and your adding into the scriptures what the scriptures do not say and teach. As posted earlier, God's salvation according to the scriptures is "conditional" on believing and following what God's Word says. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils which is why Jesus says "By their fruits you shall know them". That is who is from God and who is not (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-9). No one has ever said to you or do they believe that anyone is justified by the works of the law which is what the scriptures actually say. All the law does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith.

The scripture you quoted however does not say as some believe, "[We] know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, and we are all now free to break God's 10 commandments as long as they have faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ to be disobedient to God's law, and break God's commandments, because we are not justified by law keeping therefore are free to continue sinning" (Galatians 2:16, Reversed Version).

According to the scriptures that would be the description of the wicked according to 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:4-10. The above interpretation of the scriptures therefore goes against the scriptures and is not biblical. Anyhow, dear friend, the OP is all about risk isn't it? We are all free to believe and do as we wish. So I guess I will leave it with you and hope to see you and everyone here in Gods' kingdom as we all answer only to God for the words of God we accept or reject come judgement day according to Jesus in John 12:47-48.

I guess we all have nothing to worry about if what we believe is true. Yet here we all are believing different things. The OP is simply asking the questions what is the risk to what we believe. Of course we all cannot be right and based on what you believe there is either risk or no risk as it will lead us to God through His Word or away from Him not to follow His Word.

Take Care.

Here is a quote directly from an official SDA site:

"When the Sabbath is kept, it is a witness to the rest that comes from trusting God alone as our sustainer, as the basis of our salvation, and as the ground of our hope in the future." (Sabbath Observance - Adventist.org)

In other words, according to SDA doctrine, anyone who does not observe the Saturday Sabbath is not converted to Christ, and has no hope for the future.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here is a quote directly from an official SDA site:

"When the Sabbath is kept, it is a witness to the rest that comes from trusting God alone as our sustainer, as the basis of our salvation, and as the ground of our hope in the future." (Sabbath Observance - Adventist.org)

In other words, according to SDA doctrine, anyone who does not observe the Saturday Sabbath is not converted to Christ, and has no hope for the future.

Not really. See Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17 along with Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Not really. See Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and James 4:17 along with Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4.

Acts 17:30-31 doesn't refer to the Sabbath at all. It refers to Judgment Day where we all have to stand before Christ and give account of ourselves.

James 4:17 also doesn't refer to the Sabbath. It is all about planning for tomorrow and not knowing what tomorrow will bring forth.

Hebrews 3 is about Jesus being greater than Moses. Observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned in the chapter.

Hebrews 4 speaks about the rest we have in Christ. It is not about observing the Sabbath. In fact the Sabbath rest does not refer to observance of the Saturday Sabbath. It refers to the rest that we have in Christ, that we rest from having to do good works, ie, by keeping the Law in order to be saved. We are set free from the labour of having to keep a set of laws in our own strength, and we rest in our dependence on Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to work His workmanship of sanctification in us.

None of your Scripture verses proves anything about having to observe the Saturday Sabbath.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Acts 17:30-31 doesn't refer to the Sabbath at all. It refers to Judgment Day where we all have to stand before Christ and give account of ourselves.

James 4:17 also doesn't refer to the Sabbath. It is all about planning for tomorrow and not knowing what tomorrow will bring forth.

Hebrews 3 is about Jesus being greater than Moses. Observance of the Sabbath is not mentioned in the chapter.

Hebrews 4 speaks about the rest we have in Christ. It is not about observing the Sabbath. In fact the Sabbath rest does not refer to observance of the Saturday Sabbath. It refers to the rest that we have in Christ, that we rest from having to do good works, ie, by keeping the Law in order to be saved. We are set free from the labour of having to keep a set of laws in our own strength, and we rest in our dependence on Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to work His workmanship of sanctification in us.

None of your Scripture verses proves anything about having to observe the Saturday Sabbath.

I think you missed the point as to why those scriptures were quoted. They were provided to show that God does not hold us accountable for sin until He gives us a knowledge of what sin is (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17). The scriptures given earlier, were not provided to prove the Sabbath as pretty much the whole bible proves the Sabbath but this is not the purpose of the OP here. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 were posted as they are warnings to show that no one enters into Gods' rest (the seventh day Sabbath) in unbelief and sin (breaking God's commandments and not believing and following Gods' Word). The above of course were provided to show your earlier claims as to what we believe once more was not truthful. Perhaps if you do not know what we believe it might be best to ask rather than spreading misinformation which in my view shows you either do not know what we believe or your bearing false witness as to what we believe, because no one believes what you are saying they do. I choose to believe you just do not know what we believe, so if you want to know what we believe I think your better off asking so you can know exactly what we believe. For example see post # 102 linked. BTW Hebrew 4 is all about the Sabbath, unbelief and sin. Happy to prove this from the scriptures if your interested.

Take Care.

 

[ChetSinger]

Here is a quote directly from an official SDA site:

"When the Sabbath is kept, it is a witness to the rest that comes from trusting God alone as our sustainer, as the basis of our salvation, and as the ground of our hope in the future." (Sabbath Observance - Adventist.org)

In other words, according to SDA doctrine, anyone who does not observe the Saturday Sabbath is not converted to Christ, and has no hope for the future.

Here's another one quote, directly from Ellen White, brought to my attention last year on this forum:

Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. The Review and Herald​

She wrote that in a vision she saw Christians prior to 1844 had been given a pass. She was shown this while being "taken off in the Spirit to the City of the living God":

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. The Present Truth​

It's no wonder SDA members are so evangelistic about observing the Jewish sabbath. Their prophet wrote that salvation depends on it.

 

[BobRyan]

How about this one then?
"Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, if you keep the Saturday Sabbath, they will be as white as snow."

Is it reading different from "if you do not take God's name in vain you will be whiter than snow"?

Is it reading like "if you take God's name in vain then you show you really understand grace and the gospel"?

Here is still another one:

"For those who received Him [Christ] and keep the Saturday Sabbath,

Sounds like "For those who received Him [Christ] and do not take God's name in vain are doing well"

James 2:8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the Law as violators.

Are you trying to avoid the points listed in the OP with this line of posting?

 

[BobRyan]

Here's another one quote, directly from Ellen White,

Nothing in the subject title or the OP is "a quote from Ellen White".

If you are looking to start and all-Ellen-White-all-the-time subject thread feel free - but that is not this thread.

And you have not addressed a single detail in the OP in that post.

Here is a quote directly from an official SDA site:

The OP points to the existence of "risk" but does not quote any denomination's web site and does not name any risk.

Rather it is left to reader to argue for or against risk in each case.

Obviously if one side is correct as noted in the OP - then the opposing view "can" have risk - but that is not always the case as the OP proves by example.

The suggestion that SDAs are the only ones that take a positive view of the Sabbath is far from the real life situation we have today (as we all can see) , so I don't see how your post addresses anything.

The OP takes the SDA example of a list of doctrinal positions where one side has no risk from a logical POV - and the opposing side as some risk logically possible.

Simply posting that "Some group agrees with that argument and I don't like them" is not addressing the OP or subject.