There is NO risk to me if I am wrong about "certain" doctrinal positions.

[SabbathBlessings]

A church that forces its members to comply with an external set of rules based on the Ten Commandments as a requirement for membership is not God's church because it is rooted in the Old Covenant with its requirement to comply with the works of the Mosaic Law. It is not based on the grace of God through faith in Christ. True, it may name Christ and talk about grace and faith, but unless the person agrees to follow the church's set of rules, they would never be given the right hand of fellowship.

The SDA Church does not force anyone to do anything, does it advocate keeping the law of God, absolutely, most churches no longer teach on the Ten commandments, which is very sad and advocate it is okay to sin, which is not coming from God.

According to scripture God's saints do keep the commandments of God so the teaching that God's saints don't need to keep God's commandments is not biblical.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The Ten commandments is our tutor that leads us to Christ, but when you stop obeying them you fall from Christ. The law doesn't bring you to Christ so you can sin freely, sin is not from God, but of the devil who wants you to think that our sin is greater than our God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, who is going to be able to judge me concerning whether I am being truly obedient to the Word of God or not?

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here's another one quote, directly from Ellen White, brought to my attention last year on this forum:

Satan is the sharpest critic that the world has ever known, and he works to hinder and pervert truth. He has induced men to strive to change the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Under his dictation the first day of the week has been adopted by the Christian world as the Sabbath. He has used his masterly mind to influence other men to adopt the same views that he himself entertains. But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. The Review and Herald​

She wrote that in a vision she saw Christians prior to 1844 had been given a pass. She was shown this while being "taken off in the Spirit to the City of the living God":

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened. The Present Truth​

It's no wonder SDA members are so evangelistic about observing the Jewish sabbath. Their prophet wrote that salvation depends on it.

This is easily addressed by considering the following scriptures from Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 and Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4 or Hebrews 6:4-8 and many other scriptures and asking the question, "Are any of us in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God if we continue in known unrepentant sin? Remember sin is the transgression of Gods' law *1 John 3:4 and not believing and following Gods' Word (Romans 14:23; John 3:36; James 2:17-26). Happy to discuss this in detail from the scriptures if your interested. Of course God does not hold anyone accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject God's Word in order to continue practicing known unrepentant sin according to Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31 and James 4:17.

Although this OP here is really all about risk isn't it. If God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is as shown in the scriptures when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) and if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments according to James we stand guilty before God of sin (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4) then of course we are standing before God guilty of sin until we seek him in repentance and forgiveness of sins (see 1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4; Proverbs 28:13; Proverbs 28:9; Isaiah 59:2). Now if God shows us the above from the scriptures and we choose to reject it in order to continue practicing sin by breaking the Sabbath (could be any commandment here) then if we are continuing to practice known unrepentant sin are we in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God while practicing known unrepentant sin? Notice here I am only providing scripture in my response and no EGW? So what is the risk here to breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing Gods' Word and continuing in known unrepentant sin? Only you can prayerfully answer that question for yourself as the risk your taking by breaking Gods' commandments and continuing in known unrepentant sin leads us away from God not to God according to Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20-28.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

there are no sabbath nor dietary laws bound on the Christian in the new Covenant now!

I see. So where is the scripture that says that Gods' 4th commandment of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest? Although this thread was never about Sunday or the Sabbath it is about the risks associated in what we believe. For me if the bible teaches that God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) as shown in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James tells us that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11 then does that not mean that breaking God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" is just as much sin as lying, stealing, committing adultery or using God's name in vain? Don't forget we are discussing scripture here not my words. If so if we continue in known unrepentant sin without confession of sins and repentance of sin are we in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God? The question here is about risk. If you are wrong in your belief what is the risk to you? This is the question we are considering here. Not God's 4th commandment or Sunday worship although this is being used as an example here. What is the risk in what we believe? Only each one of us can answer that question for ourselves as we all answer only to God come judgement day for the words of God that we accept or reject according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. I believe looking at the risk as to what we believe is simply following what the bible teaches in 2 Corinthians 13:5 where it is written "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" What is the risk in what we believe? Does it lead us to God and his Word or away from God and away from His Word? Who has our heart?

Take Care.

 

[Fervent]

I see. So where is the scripture that says that Gods' 4th commandment of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day or rest? Although this thread was never about Sunday or the Sabbath it is about the risks associated in what we believe. For me if the bible teaches that God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) as shown in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James tells us that if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11 then does that not mean that breaking God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" is just as much sin as lying, stealing, committing adultery or using God's name in vain? Don't forget we are discussing scripture here not my words. If so if we continue in known unrepentant sin without confession of sins and repentance of sin are we in a saved state with God or an unsaved state with God? The question here is about risk. If you are wrong in your belief what is the risk to you? This is the question we are considering here. Not God's 4th commandment or Sunday worship although this is being used as an example here. What is the risk in what we believe? Only each one of us can answer that question for ourselves as we all answer only to God come judgement day for the words of God that we accept or reject according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. I believe looking at the risk as to what we believe is simply following what the bible teaches in 2 Corinthians 13:5 where it is written "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" What is the risk in what we believe? Does it lead us to God and his Word or away from God and away from His Word? Who has our heart?

Take Care.

Given that you have made clear you recognize Romans 7:7 is speaking of the 10 commandments you'd do well to read what Paul wrote immediately before.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The law does not apply because those who belong to Christ are dead to it.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The point I'm making is that we can't get total victory over the presence of sin in our mortal bodies. The concept of sinning, repenting, sinning, repenting, and so on, is living by the Law and not walking in the Spirit through faith in the finished work of Christ.

It is not a matter of defeating sin with the help of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That is still in the region of self-righteousness. It is ceasing from self effort and putting our complete faith in Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to do the work of sanctification in us.

In other words, we let go trying to be holy, because we can't. Only Jesus working in us can achieve it, and while we are trying to obey the Law, we are rejecting Christ. Therefore it is Christ Himself through the indwelling Holy Spirit who works to conform us to His image. It is not us trying to do it with His help. He doesn't want us to do it. He wants to do it himself, as long as we keep our hands off ourselves, and to leave it all to Him.

I will bet your bottom dollar that I would never become a member of an SDA church with views that I have just expressed.

Oscarr, I love you as Jesus loves us, however perhaps your mixing up justification which is now in the very moment we believe Gods Word with sanctification which is the work of a lifetime of knowing God. In "justification" from sin, we receive God's forgiveness from sin the very moment we confess our sins in repentance and believe Gods' promise of forgiveness for our sins through faith in the blood of Christ (1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13)."Sanctification" on the other hand is a little different as it is the work of a lifetime of learning about God through faith in His Word and growing in the faith through a knowledge and faith in God's Word.

When we are babes in Christ we desire the sincere milk of the Word of God to learn how to grow and be Christs disciples (see John 8:31-36) and God only holds us accountable for the sins we know about, not the sins we do not know about that God sees in our hearts (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 4:17; Jeremiah 17:10) and in times of this ignorance God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word.

When we are babes in Christ (2 Peter 2:2) in order to be Christ disciples we need to continue in God's Word to grow into Christ (John 8:31-36) to follow Him who loved us and washed us with His own blood (1 Corinthians 6:11; Revelation 1:5; Revelation 7:14) so that we can walk with God in holiness without which no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). "Sanctification" does not mean from time to time we will not sin and fall away from God through temptation *James 1:12 as we learn God's Word and learn to walk in the Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31. It is not God's will that we sin (break His commandments) according to John but if any man does sin we have an advocate with the Father in Jesus according to 1 John 2:1-4.

"Sanctification means that as we grow in God's grace through the knowledge of God's Word and faith in His Word, God changes us and gives us the power of His Spirit to be more and more like Him every day as He gives us power to overcome the sins that so easily beset us through temptation (Hebrews 12:1; Philippians 2:13). This is why Jesus says that unless we are born again in John 3:3-7 we will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because according to John those who practice sin which is defined in the scriptures, as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) do not practice sin in 1 John 3:6-10. Sin (breaking God's law and not believing Gods' Word) therefore is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil as shown in 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12.

Take Care.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

So this means that no mortal person or church can judge me concerning the way I express my faith in Christ, right?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Given that you have made clear you recognize Romans 7:7 is speaking of the 10 commandments you'd do well to read what Paul wrote immediately before.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The law does not apply because those who belong to Christ are dead to it.

According to the scriptures Romans 7 is not talking about being released from obedience to Gods' 10 commandments it is talking about being released from the law of sin that causes death that "God's 10 commandments gives us a knowledge of *Romans 7:7. That is why Paul calls Gods' law holy, just and good in Romans 7:12. The same theme is also outlined in Romans 6:1-23 which is the immediate context to Romans 7 and Romans 8. Romans 7 therefore is not saying we are dead to God’ law (10 commandments) and no longer need to obey them. According to the chapter context of Romans 7 the law being discussed in Romans 7:4-6 is not God’s 10 commandments but the example of the “marriage” law which is being used as an example of marriage between the flesh (old man of sin) and the Spirit (the new man that has died to sin in Christ; see the contexts of Romans 6:1-23) as shown in Romans 7:1-3. Being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 is not saying we disregard God's law (10 commandments) or any one of God's commandments for that matter as the purpose of Gods law in the new covenant is to simply give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. That is why Paul says [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.[6], But now we are delivered from the law (of sin and death), that being dead wherein we were held (bondage of sin); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The wages of sin is death according to the scriptures but the gift of God is JESUS our new husband to those who have died to the flesh (see Romans 6) and been made free to walk in the Spirit *Romans 6:23; Romans 7:1-6; Romans 8:1-4; 13; Galatians 5:16. Have a prayerful read of Romans 6 dear friend. It will help your study as Romans 7 is just a different expression of the same subject matter. Showing that it is sin that we die to not God’s law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7.

Take Care.

 

[pasifika]

Oscarr, I love you as Jesus loves us, however perhaps your mixing up justification which is now in the very moment we believe Gods Word with sanctification which is the work of a lifetime of knowing God. In "justification" from sin, we receive God's forgiveness from sin the very moment we confess our sins in repentance and believe Gods' promise of forgiveness for our sins through faith in the blood of Christ (1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:13)."Sanctification" on the other hand is a little different as it is the work of a lifetime of learning about God through faith in His Word and growing in the faith through a knowledge and faith in God's Word.

When we are babes in Christ we desire the sincere milk of the Word of God to learn how to grow and be Christs disciples (see John 8:31-36) and God only holds us accountable for the sins we know about, not the sins we do not know about that God sees in our hearts (Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 4:17; Jeremiah 17:10) and in times of this ignorance God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word.

When we are babes in Christ (2 Peter 2:2) in order to be Christ disciples we need to continue in God's Word to grow into Christ (John 8:31-36) to follow Him who loved us and washed us with His own blood (1 Corinthians 6:11; Revelation 1:5; Revelation 7:14) so that we can walk with God in holiness without which no man shall see God (Hebrews 12:14). "Sanctification" does not mean from time to time we will not sin and fall away from God through temptation *James 1:12 as we learn God's Word and learn to walk in the Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31. It is not God's will that we sin (break His commandments) according to John but if any man does sin we have an advocate with the Father in Jesus according to 1 John 2:1-4.

"Sanctification means that as we grow in God's grace through the knowledge of God's Word and faith in His Word, God changes us and gives us the power of His Spirit to be more and more like Him every day as He gives us power to overcome the sins that so easily beset us through temptation (Hebrews 12:1; Philippians 2:13). This is why Jesus says that unless we are born again in John 3:3-7 we will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven because according to John those who practice sin which is defined in the scriptures, as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23) do not practice sin in 1 John 3:6-10. Sin (breaking God's law and not believing Gods' Word) therefore is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil as shown in 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12.

Take Care.

LGW, if you love like Jesus loves us then you also free from Sin just as Jesus was. His love is a pure love Not a human love...

there are "wolves " who dress in "sheep clothing"

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Given that you have made clear you recognize Romans 7:7 is speaking of the 10 commandments you'd do well to read what Paul wrote immediately before.
Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

The law does not apply because those who belong to Christ are dead to it.

What convinces me that those who advocate following the Law as an external set of moral rules is that they are thinking carnally and not spiritually. This is because they accuse those who advocate grace through faith in Christ alone apart from the Law of deciding to live lawlessly, which is antinomianism. This is carnal thinking.

In the Old Covenant, people were in bondage to the covenant of works which required perfect obedience to the Law where breaches of the Law resulted in condemnation. The coming of the Law brought the knowledge of sin because people discovered that they could not keep the Law and therefore found themselves in bondage to sin. But according to the Gospel, when a person receives Christ, they are no longer in bondage to sin, and are also released from the Law which shows us the extent of sin. Once converted to Christ, they become bond-servants to Christ to do God's will in their lives as led by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

This means that converted believers don't have to follow the external rules of the Ten Commandments. The new Law of the spirit of life is written on their hearts, and so they go on to worship God in spirit and in truth, rather than comply with an external set of moral laws in order to maintain their fellowship with God.

Those who require that people follow the Ten Commandments as a set of external rules, such as are imposed in some churches, are still in the flesh and not in the Spirit. They are requiring their members to walk according to the Law instead of walking in the Spirit. And Paul quite clearly says that those who don't have the Spirit of Christ are none of His. This is because one cannot walk by the requirements of the Law and in the light as Christ is in the light at the same time.

 

[Fervent]

According to the scriptures Romans 7 is not talking about being released from obedience to Gods' 10 commandments it is talking about being released from the law of sin that causes death that "God's 10 commandments gives us a knowledge of *Romans 7:7. That is why Paul calls Gods' law holy, just and good in Romans 7:12. The same theme is also outlined in Romans 6:1-23 which is the immediate context to Romans 7 and Romans 8. Romans 7 therefore is not saying we are dead to God’ law (10 commandments) and no longer need to obey them. According to the chapter context of Romans 7 the law being discussed in Romans 7:4-6 is not God’s 10 commandments but the example of the “marriage” law which is being used as an example of marriage between the flesh (old man of sin) and the Spirit (the new man that has died to sin in Christ; see the contexts of Romans 6:1-23) as shown in Romans 7:1-3. Being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 is not saying we disregard God's law (10 commandments) or any one of God's commandments for that matter as the purpose of Gods law in the new covenant is to simply give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. That is why Paul says [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.[6], But now we are delivered from the law (of sin and death), that being dead wherein we were held (bondage of sin); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The wages of sin is death according to the scriptures but the gift of God is JESUS our new husband to those who have died to the flesh (see Romans 6) and been made free to walk in the Spirit *Romans 6:23; Romans 7:1-6; Romans 8:1-4; 13; Galatians 5:16. Have a prayerful read of Romans 6 dear friend. It will help your study as Romans 7 is just a different expression of the same subject matter. Showing that it is sin that we die to not God’s law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7.

Take Care.

Romans 7:7 identifies the law as the one which tells us "thou shalt not covet." Seems rather confused to try to claim that when Paul says "the law" in 7:4 and 7:6 it is not the very same law of 7:7. Which you yourself identified as the 10 commandments. So we must then identify the law that contains the commandment "thou shalt not covet" as the law of sin and death from which we've been set free.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So this means that no mortal person or church can judge me concerning the way I express my faith in Christ, right?

Correct, I certainly have not judged you, but there are some warnings for those who teach others to break the commandments of God and we should be teaching each other to keep the commandments. Matthew 5:19. Pointing out scripture is reasoning together is not judging. Once Jesus comes our fates will be sealed Revelation 22:11 so its important to understand God’s Word. In the days of Noah only 8 people obeyed. We are told the coming of Jesus will be similar to the days of Noah and according to scripture most people follow the wrong path. Jesus does not ask for much considering all that He has given. God bless

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Romans 7:7 identifies the law as the one which tells us "thou shalt not covet." Seems rather confused to try to claim that when Paul says "the law" in 7:4 and 7:6 it is not the very same law of 7:7. Which you yourself identified as the 10 commandments. So we must then identify the law that contains the commandment "thou shalt not covet" as the law of sin and death from which we've been set free.

Follow the scripture contexts provided in post # 176 linked that proves your interpretation here is not biblical. As shown from the scriptures in the linked post, the context of Romans 7:1-4 is the example of the marriage law and being married to the old man of sin and who must die before we can be married to the new man in Christ and compare that to the immediate context of Romans 6:1-23 which is to dying to the old man of sin. Romans 7:4 is not talking about Gods' 10 commandments which is not being discussed until latter on in the chapter where Paul shows its role in giving us a knowledge of what sin is and calls it holy just and good. (Romans 7:7-12). You will find even further proof in the scriptures in Romans 7:7 where it is written "Is the law sin? No!.. and again in Romans 7:13 where it says "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. According to the scriptures, the wages of sin brings death not the law that only gives us the knowledge of sin when God's law is broken (Romans 6:23; Romans 7:7).

Take Care.

 

[Fervent]

Follow the scripture contexts provided in post # 176 linked that proves your interpretation here is not biblical. As shown from the scriptures in the linked post the context of Romans 7:1-4 is the marriage law and being married to the old man of sin and who must die before being married to the new man in Christ and compare that to the immediate context of Romans 6:1-23. This is not talking about Gods' 10 commandments which is not being discussed until latter on in the chapter where Paul shows its role in giving us a knowledge of what sin is and calls it holy just and good. (Romans 7:7-12). You will find even further proof in the scriptures in Romans 7:7 where it is written "Is the law sin? No!.. and again in Romans 7:13 where it says "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. According to the scriptures, the wages of sin brings death not the law that gives us the knowledge of sin (Romans 6:23; Romans 7:7).

Take Care.

I am following the context, as Paul never changes gears to talk about different laws and the question of 7:7 only makes sense if it is the very same law he is speaking to in 7:7-7:25 with the explanation being that although the law is holy, righteous, and good it is still the law of sin and death because the function it serves is to pronounce death. It is only through being dead to the law, in accordance to its decree, that we are set free from it. To return to the law which you have died to is not faithfulness but spiritual adultery. In the same sense, Paul speaks of the law to Timothy and makes it clear the law is not for the righteous but for lawbreakers. The law is the same law throughout Romans 7, so if "the law" in 7:7 refers to the 10 commandments then so too does "the law" in 7:4 and 7:6 refer to the 10 commandments. Carving out exceptions is nothing but confusion to preserve a doctrine that is explicitly contradicted.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am following the context, as Paul never changes gears to talk about different laws and the question of 7:7 only makes sense if it is the very same law he is speaking to in 7:7-7:25 with the explanation being that although the law is holy, righteous, and good it is still the law of sin and death because the function it serves is to pronounce death. It is only through being dead to the law, in accordance to its decree, that we are set free from it. To return to the law which you have died to is not faithfulness but spiritual adultery. In the same sense, Paul speaks of the law to Timothy and makes it clear the law is not for the righteous but for lawbreakers. The law is the same law throughout Romans 7, so if "the law" in 7:7 refers to the 10 commandments then so too does "the law" in 7:4 and 7:6 refer to the 10 commandments. Carving out exceptions is nothing but confusion to preserve a doctrine that is explicitly contradicted.

We will agree to disagree then and I will leave that risk with you as you have been shown why your interpretation of Romans 7:4 is not biblical by providing the scripture contexts your disregarding in Romans 6:1-23; Romans 7:1-5; Romans 7:7-12 as evidenced in post # 176 linked and post # 181 linked. All you have done here is to simply repeat yourself while choosing to ignore the posts and scriptures provided to you that disagree with you. So I will leave that between you and God to work through. Having an interpretation that Romans 7:4 means that we are to disregard Gods' 10 commandments pretty much goes against all the teachings of the whole bible in my view and is in contradiction to the very words of Jesus and all the Apostles who all teach that we should be keeping them (scriptures here) through faith that works in a new heart to love which is God's new covenant promise *see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4.

Take Care.

 

[Fervent]

We will agree to disagree then and I will leave that risk with you as you have been shown why your interpretation of Romans 7:4 is not biblical by providing the scripture contexts your disregarding in Romans 6:1-23; Romans 7:1-5; Romans 7:7-12 as evidenced in post # 176 linked and post # 181 linked. All you have done here is to simply repeat yourself while choosing to ignore the posts and scriptures provided to you that disagree with you. So I will leave that between you and God to work through. Having an interpretation that Romans 7:4 means that we are to disregard Gods' 10 commandments pretty much goes against all the teachings of the whole bible in my view when Jesus and all the Apostles teach that we should be keeping them through faith (scriptures here).

Take Care.

Context begins with the immediate and moves to the extremes. So the first context to consider for Romans 7:4 and 7:6 is 7:7-12 and 7:1-3, which never introduce competing laws. So there is no ignoring context, it is simply being resolved in an ordinary way. Your selective quotes don't show that a different law is being discussed, in fact quite the opposite as they speak of the manner and not the content. And frankly, there is no "risk" on my position as my salvation depends entirely on Christ and God's mercy. The only way there would be risk is if it were a salvatory issue, which SDAs claim to deny since they deny pushing salvation by works. So which is it, must I do religious works to be saved and thus am taking a risk in not doing them or is my salvation by grace through faith alone apart from works?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What convinces me that those who advocate following the Law as an external set of moral rules is that they are thinking carnally and not spiritually. This is because they accuse those who advocate grace through faith in Christ alone apart from the Law of deciding to live lawlessly, which is antinomianism. This is carnal thinking.

How do you know why anyone obeys God? Only God knows our thoughts and hearts, so again I would leave that task of up to Jesus.

We are saved by grace (God’s gift to give or not give) though our faith. Does grace delete these words from Jesus: If you love Me, keep My commandments? John 14:15.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!

Those who require that people follow the Ten Commandments as a set of external rules, such as are imposed in some churches, are still in the flesh and not in the Spirit. They are requiring their members to walk according to the Law instead of walking in the Spirit. And Paul quite clearly says that those who don't have the Spirit of Christ are none of His. This is because one cannot walk by the requirements of the Law and in the light as Christ is in the light at the same time.

The church did not write the Ten Commandments, God did. God is the one who advocates that we obey His law Exodus 20:6 and Jesus Matthew 5:19, Matthew 7:21-23, John 14:15, John 15:10, and Paul 1 Cor 7:19, and James James 2:10-12 and John 1 John 5:3, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:12, 1 John 2:4 and Hebrews 8:10

If you are walking in the Spirit you are obeying. To claim you are in the Spirit and sinning, that spirit does not come from God. Isaiah 8:20

Which law is too difficult to keep? Just curious.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(a number of people have asked that this topic be posted in a more open area of CF - so here it is)

Realizing first of all - that there are saved saints in all Christian denominations:

As a Seventh-day Adventist -- if I am wrong about my beliefs – there is still no risk to me.

1. IF I am wrong to be a Christian and instead Atheists have the right belief – there is no risk to me. I get the exact same “glorious ending” as the atheist true believer – the hole in ground ending

2. IF I am wrong about rejecting the secret rapture and millennial kingdom on Earth (when I say that in the future the saints are raptured at Christ's Rev 19 appearing according to Matt 24 - and the saints spend the millennium with Christ in heaven, while earth is desolate for that period of time) – there is no risk to me. I get raptured anyway and learn about the details in heaven.

3. IF I am wrong about rejecting OSAS (once saved always saved) and the OSAS groups are right – there is no risk to me. I am saved by accepting Jesus as my savior either way.

4. IF I am wrong about the Dan 7 pre-advent judgment being the 2 Cor 5:10 judgment also in Rom 2:6-16, and so then those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me.

5. IF I am wrong about the 7th day Sabbath of Ex 20, and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me – let each one observe the day as he is persuaded Rom 14.

6. IF I am wrong about God’s health message and those who ignore it are right – there is no risk to me. The Adventist church has one of the 5 “blue zones” in the world, and live 5-7 years longer on average.

7. If I am wrong about Rev 14 (three Angel's messages) being the final warning to mankind before the tribulation-plagues of Rev 16 and the Rev 19 appearing of Christ, and those who ignore it are right, then still there is no risk to me for reading the warning as it is scripture and so is not a problem to share it "anyway".

8. IF I am wrong about rejecting "communion with the dead" (958) and those who choose to commune with the dead are right - there is no risk to me.

958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."500 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective. "
​

In each one of these example there is an argument that could be made to show that “if I am right” on a given point above and someone rejects that point entirely, then “some risk” might exist for them.

===========================

The are other Christian groups that share some of my same beliefs above and so I think they too would also have "no risk" even if they are wrong on the position above that they share with me.

========================== Two real life examples

1. Noah - if he is wrong then he has a "boat" in his yard for a long time but nobody dies. If he is right -- then it is a huge risk to those who ignored the warning message

2. John the baptizer - and his "repent for the time is fulfilled" message about the Christ - before Jesus meets John. If John is wrong then just a lot more "repent and be baptized" sermons until he dies. But if those who ignored John's message are wrong - the nation itself is at risk of rejecting the Messiah.

=========== one final addendum

If tomorrow I forget all of the bible information absorbed over a lifetime of reading and applying due to some brain illness, God will not forsake me or you. God does not show favoritism.

 

[BobRyan]

If tomorrow I forget all of the bible information absorbed over a lifetime of reading and applying due to some brain illness, God will not forsake me or you. God does not show favoritism.

Agreed. But that is not what the OP or subject title of this thread is about.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Context begins with the immediate and moves to the extremes. So the first context to consider for Romans 7:4 and 7:6 is 7:7-12 and 7:1-3, which never introduce competing laws. So there is no ignoring context, it is simply being resolved in an ordinary way. Your selective quotes don't show that a different law is being discussed, in fact quite the opposite as they speak of the manner and not the content. And frankly, there is no "risk" on my position as my salvation depends entirely on Christ and God's mercy. The only way there would be risk is if it were a salvatory issue, which SDAs claim to deny since they deny pushing salvation by works. So which is it, must I do religious works to be saved and thus am taking a risk in not doing them or is my salvation by grace through faith alone apart from works?

Please forgive me but I do not believe you as shown already from the scriptures shared with you that show the context your disregarding in Romans 7:4 that does not agree with the interpretation you have applied to it as shown in the scriptures contexts shared with you in post # 176 linked and post # 181 linked and the rest of the bible that disagrees with your teachings as shown in only some of the scriptures provided in post # 183 linked. What you believe of course is between you and God but at least you should consider that if an interpretation is applied to scripture that contradicts other scriptures in the bible then perhaps that interpretation of of scripture is incorrect because Gods' Word does not contradict Gods' Word, scripture does not contradict scripture. According to the scriptures Romans 7 is not talking about being released from obedience to Gods' 10 commandments it is talking about being released from the law of sin that causes death that "God's 10 commandments gives us a knowledge of *Romans 7:7. That is why Paul calls Gods' law holy, just and good in Romans 7:12. The same theme is also outlined in Romans 6:1-23 which is the immediate context to Romans 7 and Romans 8. Romans 7 therefore is not saying we are dead to God’ law (10 commandments) and no longer need to obey them. According to the chapter context of Romans 7 the law being discussed in Romans 7:4-6 is not God’s 10 commandments but the example of the “marriage” law which is being used as an example of marriage between the flesh (old man of sin) and the Spirit (the new man that has died to sin in Christ; see the contexts of Romans 6:1-23) as shown in Romans 7:1-3. Being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 is not saying we disregard God's law (10 commandments) or any one of God's commandments for that matter as the purpose of Gods law in the new covenant is to simply give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. That is why Paul says [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.[6], But now we are delivered from the law (of sin and death), that being dead wherein we were held (bondage of sin); that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. The wages of sin is death according to the scriptures but the gift of God is JESUS our new husband to those who have died to the flesh (see Romans 6) and been made free to walk in the Spirit *Romans 6:23; Romans 7:1-6; Romans 8:1-4; 13; Galatians 5:16. Your interpretation of a single scripture is in contradiction to the new testament teachings of Jesus and all the Apostles who all teach that we should be keeping God's laws not breaking them (scriptures here) through faith that works in a new heart to love which is God's new covenant promise *see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4. I believe you have been shown from the scriptures provided in the linked posts that your interpretation of Romans 7:4 beside disregarding scripture contexts, has the bible contradicting itself. So we will have to agree to disagree dear friend.

Take Care.