There is no OSAS

[Partaker of Christ]

So basically, God would force me to be in heaven against my will.

What kind of God is that?

So basically, God would keep people out of heaven against their will.

What kind of God is that?

The thing is, that God wants people to be saved. It was and is His Will.

Because it was and is His will to save, He goes to great lengths to provide and establish a way to fulfil His will.
If God did not want anyone to be saved, then no matter what man will is, it would not happen.

God does not obey mans will, He saves us because it is His Will, and we obey Gods will when we obey the gospel (to believe on His Son)

God has not provided and established a way in which those who are saved, can (at will) become unsaved, and that is because it is not His will that any should perish.

Suppose you were in the sea and drowning. Someone decides (his will) to come and save you. He pulls you out of the sea and into his boat. His plan is to get you on to solid ground. If then you say to him, Hey I don’t want to be saved, I don’t want to get to the solid ground, so throw me back into the sea.

Is he going to do that?
It is your will against his will, so is he going to do his own will, or obey your will that goes against his will?

[FONT=&quot]Are you going to say to him, what sort of saviour are you, if you will not throw me back into the sea, that is against my will.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The bad news for you, is that your will is not god[/FONT].

 

[sculleywr]

So basically, God would keep people out of heaven against their will.

What kind of God is that?

The thing is, that God wants people to be saved. It was and is His Will.

Because it was and is His will to save, He goes to great lengths to provide and establish a way to fulfil His will.
If God did not want anyone to be saved, then no matter what man will is, it would not happen.

God does not obey mans will, He saves us because it is His Will, and we obey Gods will when we obey the gospel (to believe on His Son)

God has not provided and established a way in which those who are saved, can (at will) become unsaved, and that is because it is not His will that any should perish.

Suppose you were in the sea and drowning. Someone decides (his will) to come and save you. He pulls you out of the sea and into his boat. His plan is to get you on to solid ground. If then you say to him, Hey I don’t want to be saved, I don’t want to get to the solid ground, so throw me back into the sea.

Is he going to do that?
It is your will against his will, so is he going to do his own will, or obey your will that goes against his will?

[FONT=&quot]Are you going to say to him, what sort of saviour are you, if you will not throw me back into the sea, that is against my will.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The bad news for you, is that your will is not god[/FONT].

In short, God doesn't give a hoot what you think. You are an insignificant boob if your will is not God's will and He will do His will with you no matter what you say. You are a robot, He pushes a button and you do what He says. You do not have the right to an opinion, nor do you have any power within yourself to choose your own fate.

Is that what you mean?

Willingness does not mean action. Was it His will that a group of men who hated God would hijack an airplane and kill thousands of people in the twin towers? Was it His will that thousands of people would drown and die in the tsunami in Haiti? Was it His will that people died when Katrina lambasted the Gulf Coast? Is it His will that a little girl is tortured by an evil serial killer? Are you telling me that these are His will?

This is a monster of a God. For if a person goes to Hell, it's His fault. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept such a monster.

The true God has a Will and a Plan:
His Will is that none will perish. If He had His Will with every being He created, there would never be sin on this earth. However, since we are created in the very image of God, we have a will. He gave us that will, and therefore is not going to go against it.

His plan is in place, understanding and making concessions that some will not want to be in His presence, but never contravening their will, for He is a Father and not a dictator.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

I have read it thanks!

[FONT=&quot]Did you have a point to make about the passage?[/FONT]

It's just one verse, with no explanation or personal thought to what she thinks it means or why it somehow disproves eternal salvation of a true believer. I posted dozens upon dozens of Scripture showing the eternal security of a true believer, and yet it seems that none of the Scriptures I posted count or hold any kind of significance to the opposing side. However, one verse just doesn't cut it, IMO, and it certainly doesn't settle the matter either. I have read, reviewed, and researched the Scriptures given that are suppose to disprove the eternal security of a true believer, and yet I still wholeheartedly trust God to sustain my salvation and keep me from stumbling. Their point of view and their position hasn't convinced me or caused me to doubt God sustaining and maintaining my salvation until I stand before Him in glory.

 

[sculleywr]

It's just one verse, with no explanation or personal thought to what she thinks it means or why it somehow disproves eternal salvation of a true believer. I posted dozens upon dozens of Scripture showing the eternal security of a true believer, and yet it seems that none of the Scriptures I posted count or hold any kind of significance to the opposing side. However, one verse just doesn't cut it, IMO, and it certainly doesn't settle the matter either. I have read, reviewed, and researched the Scriptures given that are suppose to disprove the eternal security of a true believer, and yet I still wholeheartedly trust God to sustain my salvation and keep me from stumbling. Their point of view and their position hasn't convinced me or caused me to doubt God sustaining and maintaining my salvation until I stand before Him in glory.

Except for the fact that most of those verses either refer to the whole Church, or refer to a belief which is a continuous entrusting of yourself to Christ.

We were all saved at Calvary. But we have a lifetime in which we entrust ourselves every say to that salvation. Only after that continual entrusting (Pisteuo in the Greek for Believe) will we be saved.

It's NEVER a single decision that saves you. If one decision could save you, then there is no point to any verse outside of John 3:16.

Instead, EVERYTHING in the Bible is salvific in one way or another. James is written to people who are BEING saved. Salvation is a continuous process and we must take part in it!

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT


Closing this for review

Edit this thread has had a clean up in part. It will remain closed. There was a lot of flaming.

 

[JCFantasy23]

MOD HAT ON


Through staff consensus, this thread will remain closed due too many issues, reports and flaming.
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