There is no OSAS

[Lion King]

Cutting of of salvation isn't possible. He was referring to the same cutting off His providence the way the Jews were cut off & sent into exile. He is talking about temporal, not eternal consequences.

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal. So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Romans 11:1-6

Are you sure about that Rick?

 

[Rick Otto]

I used to strive. Now I let God do His work. Getting to God's Kingdom isn't hard. Stayin' in it takes faith. Exercising that faith can sometimes take effort.
I'm not ready to offer proof to you yet. It feels like it would be a waste of time.
I may be trippin', but I think you don't want it to be true, & I don't need one more guy thinkin' I sound like a fool. Maybe it's too late.

 

[squint]

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!

Kinda makes the point.

s

 

[Rick Otto]

Kinda makes the point.

s

That's what I was thinkin' I was gonna quote & say "Amen" until I read, "Are you sure about that, Rick"?
I would answer only eternaly sure. My flesh still entertains doubts occaisionaly. I am learning not to identify with that so strongly & identify more with my newly reborn spirit.

 

[dollarsbill]

I used to strive. Now I let God do His work. Getting to God's Kingdom isn't hard.

Jesus said to strive to enter in. So obviously He isn't talking about getting saved. He's talking about staying saved.

Stayin' in it takes faith. Exercising that faith can sometimes take effort.
I'm not ready to offer proof to you yet. It feels like it would be a waste of time.
I may be trippin', but I think you don't want it to be true, & I don't need one more guy thinkin' I sound like a fool. Maybe it's too late.

If it's true I have nothing to worry about. But I don't believe OSAS is Biblical.

 

[Lion King]

Kinda makes the point.

s

I think you are ignoring the fact that many disbelieving Jews were cut off from from the olive tree, and died without repenting. The same that happened to the natural branches, is the same that will happen to the wild branches also.

 

[Lion King]

That's what I was thinkin' I was gonna quote & say "Amen" until I read, "Are you sure about that, Rick"?
I would answer only eternaly sure. My flesh still entertains doubts occaisionaly. I am learning not to identify with that so strongly & identify more with my newly reborn spirit.

When do you believe a person is saved?

 

[squint]

I think you are ignoring the fact that many disbelieving Jews were cut off from from the olive tree, and died without repenting.

Read the balance of Romans 11, more particularly and you'll see what happens with 'all' of them in vs. 26. Then get back to me.

The same that happened to the natural branches, is the same that will happen to the wild branches also.

Paul tells us quite clearly that God Himself put 'a spirit of slumber' upon them so they couldn't believe (Romans 11:8), and did so for our benefit. Who are we to complain about those facts?

What should our conclusion then be? Read Romans 11:31 and learn what our response to those blinded and get back to me with a comparison of your intent and Paul's directive.

squint

 

[dollarsbill]

Read the balance of Romans 11, more particularly and you'll see what happens with 'all' of them in vs. 26. Then get back to me.

ALL is referring to those living, not those who rebelled against God.

Hebrews 3:11
11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'

And continuing to read it gets even more relevant.

Hebrews 3:12
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

 

[squint]

ALL is referring to those living, not those who rebelled against God.

I can read the same statement and not come to that conclusion. How does that work? Perhaps telling of ones own heart being reflected therein? I think so.

Hebrews 3:11
11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'

And continuing to read it gets even more relevant.

Why would I observe the blinded people of Israel and not factor in the spirit of slumber put upon them? Obviously it was not just them, but them and the spirit of slumber that God put upon them. Jesus described this principle clearly in His Word where He stated that where the Word is sown, Satan enters to steal, to blind, to destroy and to kill. What is it then that people speak, or is it really just them speaking?

The fact of OSAS remains, that there is no scripture stating that a believer is going to the lake of fire even as a possibility. This is just a fact. So those who think they see that certainly are not seeing it in a written example of the scriptures.

squint

 

[dollarsbill]

I can read the same statement and not come to that conclusion. How does that work? Perhaps telling of ones own heart being reflected therein? I think so.


Why would I observe the blinded people of Israel and not factor in the spirit of slumber put upon them? Obviously it was not just them, but them and the spirit of slumber that God put upon them. Jesus described this principle clearly in His Word where He stated that where the Word is sown, Satan enters to steal, to blind, to destroy and to kill. What is it then that people speak, or is it really just them speaking?

The fact of OSAS remains, that there is no scripture stating that a believer is going to the lake of fire even as a possibility. This is just a fact. So those who think they see that certainly are not seeing it in a written example of the scriptures.

squint

If OSAS is true then I have nothing to worry about. But it's not.

 

[squint]

If OSAS is true then I have nothing to worry about. But it's not.

If we come to grips with the fact that we all have sin and sin is of the devil, there is reason to fear God and to fight the battle against enslavement. That is the challenge for all believers. But one must understand that we are not exempt from the entrance of the tempter in our minds and hearts to put sin thoughts in our minds and hearts. Based on this fact we should not view ourselves as being alone in these matters.

We do have an enemy that seeks to enslave us. It is an internal enemy.

squint

 

[Lion King]

Read the balance of Romans 11, more particularly and you'll see what happens with 'all' of them in vs. 26. Then get back to me.

Tell me, is it possible for anyone to be saved without believing in Jesus Christ?

Paul tells us quite clearly that God Himself put 'a spirit of slumber' upon them so they couldn't believe (Romans 11:8), and did so for our benefit. Who are we to complain about those facts?

What should our conclusion then be? Read Romans 11:31 and learn what our response to those blinded and get back to me with a comparison of your intent and Paul's directive.

squint

Israel will only receive mercy once they come back to the Messiah. It seems like you are indirectly promoting the idea that everyone of Jewish origin will be saved regardless of their beliefs, which is false. There is only one plan of salvation given to all mankind, Jew and Gentile, and that is faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Lion King]

The fact of OSAS remains, that there is no scripture stating that a believer is going to the lake of fire even as a possibility. This is just a fact. So those who think they see that certainly are not seeing it in a written example of the scriptures.

squint

Of course, there is none. A believer has eternal life and is not condemned. However there is a majority of Scriptures which state that a person can indeed "fall from grace", and that only those who persevere until the end will be saved. Let us not deceive ourselves into a false sense of security that once you are "saved", you are always "saved". Many have been called, but only a few are chosen...

Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

 

[squint]

Of course, there is none. A believer has eternal life and is not condemned. However there is a majority of Scriptures which state that a person can indeed "fall from grace", and that only those who persevere until the end will be saved. Let us not deceive ourselves into a false sense of security that once you are "saved", you are always "saved". Many have been called, but only a few are chosen...

Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

One might perceive that Grace is unmerited favor, and quite secure. Falling from same may be not viewing Grace securely.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

s

 

[squint]

Tell me, is it possible for anyone to be saved without believing in Jesus Christ

Israel will only receive mercy once they come back to the Messiah. It seems like you are indirectly promoting the idea that everyone of Jewish origin will be saved regardless of their beliefs, which is false. There is only one plan of salvation given to all mankind, Jew and Gentile, and that is faith in Jesus Christ.

I view the matter how Jesus and Paul depicted them. Where the Word is sown, Satan enters to blind their minds. This categorically places them under the workings of the blinder no differently than us here prior:

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In view of the facts it is quite pointless to see only them when the 'god of this world' is obviously blinding their minds and hearts.

s

 

[Lion King]

One might perceive that Grace is unmerited favor, and quite secure. Falling from same may be not viewing Grace securely.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

s

What do you reckon will happen if you do not keep yourself in the love of God?

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16

Basically what I'm asking is what would happen to someone who does not keep the commands of God?

 

[squint]

What do you reckon will happen if you do not keep yourself in the love of God?

I'd reckon the 'god of this world' blinded the believer to the fact. Nothing personal.

I'd also reckon that the 'god of this world' won't have the same measures believers do.

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16

Basically what I'm asking is what would happen to someone who does not keep the commands of God?

Anybody can make any claims they want. IF a believer in Truth admits to the presence of the tempter they'd see themselves more accurately and they'd understand the the tempter is never going to be obedient.

None of the matters of scripture are just about 'us' as believers.

s

 

[Partaker of Christ]

Of course, there is none. A believer has eternal life and is not condemned. However there is a majority of Scriptures which state that a person can indeed "fall from grace", and that only those who persevere until the end will be saved. Let us not deceive ourselves into a false sense of security that once you are "saved", you are always "saved". Many have been called, but only a few are chosen...

Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

So, how do you un-crucify yourself?

If the old man is dead, then how do you resurrect him back to life?

Who or what, can separate us from the love of God?

Note: it does not say ‘who can separated God’s love from us’

[FONT=&quot]You quote the ‘endure to the end’ so what is it that we are to may be endure to the end?[/FONT]

 

[Rick Otto]

What do you reckon will happen if you do not keep yourself in the love of God?

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16

Basically what I'm asking is what would happen to someone who does not keep the commands of God?

You are confusing the sense of the phrase "love of God", your majesty.
"Keep yourself loving God", may have been a more suitable translation since the love of God is unmerited in any salvific sense tho He may withdraw providence, us falling from that grace and even perhapse getting "cut off" like the Jews who were sent into exile, but were still the chosen people.