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There is no hell.
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Who CANonized scripture? The fallen angels (messengers) were the people of God.
Jude
1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was nessesary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneeked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remined you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; As also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion, they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; In those things they have corrupted themselves.
11. Woe to them! they have gone the ways of Cain, and have ran greedily after the errors of Balaam for a reward, and perish like in the rebellion of Korah.
12. They are blemishes at your devotions, without fear they eat with you, only to feed themselves; They are clouds without rain, carried about by winds; pulled up by the roots they are trees whose fruit has withered before harvest, twice dead;
13. Like raging waves of the sea, whose foam is to their own shame; They are wandering stars, for whom is reserved the blackest of darkness for ever.
14. And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them, saying, look, the Lord is coming with tens of thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon them, and to convince all of the ungodly among them of their ungodly deeds, which they have committed, and all of their hard words spoken by the ungodly sinners who have spoken against Him.
16. These complainers are grumblers walking after their own lusts; and their mouths speak with great words of pride, having the admiration of men because of some personal advantage.
17. Loved, do you remember the words which were spoken of before; by the disciples of our lord Yahshua the Messiah;
18. How they told you there would come mockers in the last days, and how they would walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you by their lust.
20. But your love builds you up in your most holy faith, praying to the Holy Spirit,
21. Keep yourselves as Yahwah's devoted, looking for mercy from our lord Yahshua the Messiah for eternal life.
22. Make a difference and have compassion.
23. Save others without fear, by pulling them from the fire; hate even the cloths stained by the flesh.
24. He is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before his present glory with great joy,
25. And to the only wise God and Saviour, be glory,majesty, dominion and power; To both now, and forever. Truly.
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X=?
A voice crying in the wilderness.
OT - I recently had an interesting revelation regarding the bible when used in discussion, that is the Bible can be used to argue every and any perception even to the point of the KKK. However it is worth reading between the words and the lines of the sentance. Call on Gods counsellor and humble your very being in Gods prescence for true insight.
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A voice crying in the wilderness.
Theres a really interesting book on angels by Billy Graham it has a blue cover I forget its name but I think its 'Angels'. Its interesting for unifying references to Angels in the Bibles and all about their appearences, creation and purpose.
A very good read, about £8.
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When people are not sophisticated enough for logical deduction, they resort to fantasies. You guys are a never ending source of astonishment.
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Revelation 19:10
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Yahshua. Worship Yahwah! For the testimony of Yahshua is the spirit of prophecy."
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Hey Gary. I had this link from years back and never really read thru it all as I got busy translating the NT and OT.
Read with a grain of salt
http://associate.com/ministry_files/mirrors/ichthys.com/SR1copy.htm
2) The Realm of Angels: The realm of angels is often assumed to be the heavens, and to a certain degree this is true, at least at this present time: a) they are often called "heavenly hosts" (1Kng.22:19; Ps.103:20-21; 148:2; Lk.2:13); b) angels are invariably present on the heavenly scene (1Kng.22:19; Job 1:6-7; 2:1-2; Lk.15:7 & 10; Rev.5:11); c) and angels are often identified with the stars of heaven (Job 38:7; Is.14:12 &13; 40:26; Rev.1:20; 9:1-2). Since elsewhere in scripture stars are literally stars (cf. Gen.1:16b), it is likely that this designation is a reference to angelic spheres of authority (cf. Eph.1:20-21; 3:10; Col.1:16). Fallen angels, for example, are termed "wandering stars" in Jude 13 (in a comparison to false teachers where the reference to "blackest darkness . . . reserved forever" recalls the lake of fire in supernatural darkness prepared for the devil and his angels; cf. Matt.8:12). This term is reminiscent of their failure to "keep their own domain", i.e., choosing to interfere with human affairs in Satan's behalf, they abandoned their ordained, heavenly realm, (Jude 6).(11)
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OK then. We have scripture that says that God is merciful, and that God is merciless. I have stated that those verses that shows God to do evil and is merciless, have been not correctly translated. Since there are contradictions in scripture of that nature, then only one point of view is correct. Either God is merciful and good, or He is merciless and evil. I will remind everyone again that it was the Catholic Church that CANONIZED scriptures. That statement alone should answer your question; the fact Pagan Rome had a religious belief in Hades prior to Christianity. Why should a persons punishment be exceedingly more beyond measure than any sins that they had committed? What need would that satisfy any God, to torture living being for all eternity. That does not make sense to even any rational human being. Now I ask everyone here; do you still believe in an eternal Hell?
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Has anyone really read through this book of Jude carefully, comparing it to your own?
Jude
1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; As also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion, they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; In those things they have corrupted themselves.
11. Woe to them! they have gone the ways of Cain, and have ran greedily after the errors of Balaam for a reward, and perish like in the rebellion of Korah.
12. They are blemishes at your devotions, without fear they eat with you, only to feed themselves; They are clouds without rain, carried about by winds; pulled up by the roots they are trees whose fruit has withered before harvest, twice dead;
13. Like raging waves of the sea, whose foam is to their own shame; They are wandering stars, for whom is reserved the blackest of darkness for ever.
14. And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them, saying, look, the Lord is coming with tens of thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon them, and to convince all of the ungodly among them of their ungodly deeds, which they have committed, and all of their hard words spoken by the ungodly sinners who have spoken against Him.
16. These complainers are grumblers walking after their own lusts; and their mouths speak with great words of pride, having the admiration of men because of some personal advantage.
17. Loved, do you remember the words which were spoken of before; by the disciples of our lord Yahshua the Messiah;
18. How they told you there would come mockers in the last days, and how they would walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you by their lust.
20. But your love builds you up in your most holy faith, praying to the Holy Spirit,
21. Keep yourselves as Yahwah's devoted, looking for mercy from our lord Yahshua the Messiah for eternal life.
22. Make a difference and have compassion.
23. Save others without fear, by pulling them from the fire; hate even the cloths stained by the flesh.
24. He is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before his present glory with great joy,
25. And to the only wise God and Saviour, be glory,majesty, dominion and power; To both now, and forever. Truly. [/SIZE]
Jude
1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of James, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; As also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion, they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; In those things they have corrupted themselves.
11. Woe to them! they have gone the ways of Cain, and have ran greedily after the errors of Balaam for a reward, and perish like in the rebellion of Korah.
12. They are blemishes at your devotions, without fear they eat with you, only to feed themselves; They are clouds without rain, carried about by winds; pulled up by the roots they are trees whose fruit has withered before harvest, twice dead;
13. Like raging waves of the sea, whose foam is to their own shame; They are wandering stars, for whom is reserved the blackest of darkness for ever.
14. And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them, saying, look, the Lord is coming with tens of thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon them, and to convince all of the ungodly among them of their ungodly deeds, which they have committed, and all of their hard words spoken by the ungodly sinners who have spoken against Him.
16. These complainers are grumblers walking after their own lusts; and their mouths speak with great words of pride, having the admiration of men because of some personal advantage.
17. Loved, do you remember the words which were spoken of before; by the disciples of our lord Yahshua the Messiah;
18. How they told you there would come mockers in the last days, and how they would walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you by their lust.
20. But your love builds you up in your most holy faith, praying to the Holy Spirit,
21. Keep yourselves as Yahwah's devoted, looking for mercy from our lord Yahshua the Messiah for eternal life.
22. Make a difference and have compassion.
23. Save others without fear, by pulling them from the fire; hate even the cloths stained by the flesh.
24. He is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before his present glory with great joy,
25. And to the only wise God and Saviour, be glory,majesty, dominion and power; To both now, and forever. Truly. [/SIZE]
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Gary51
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Clearly there has been a break down in communication somewhere.
I do not believe the hell myth that was created by the RCC. I believe the dead are dead until the resurrection, where the righteous will receive eternal life and the wicked will receive eternal death.
What I am talking to you about is the existance of angels. According to your sig, you don't believe in angels.
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I'm glad that we are in agreement on the nature of God. In regards to angels:
The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (melakh Elohiym; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (melakh Adonai; messenger of the Lord), בני אלוהים (b'nai Elohiym; sons of God) and הקודשים (ha-qodeshim; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels. The word "angel" in English (from Old English and German Engel), French (from Old French angele), Spanish, and many other Romance languages are derived from the Latin angelus, itself derived from Koine Greek: άγγελος, angelos, "messenger" (pl. άγγελοι
. The ultimate etymology of that word in Greek is uncertain. The rationalist view of angels, as held by Maimonides, Gersonides, Samuel Ibn Tibbon, etc., states that God's actions are never mediated by a violation of the laws of nature. Rather, all such interactions are by way of messengers. Maimonides harshly states that the average person's understanding of the term "angel" is ignorant in the extreme.
According to Maimonides, the wise man understands that what the Bible and Talmud refer to as "angels" are actually metaphors for laws of nature, or the principles by which the universe operates.
The origin of angels in history is quite complicated to figure out, due to angels or similar spirit beings being found within many cultures around the globe.
Angels are also found within Sumerian, Babylonian, Persian, Egyptian and Greek writings. Serapis (Latin spelling, or Sarapis in Greek) was a syncretic Hellenistic-Egyptian god in Antiquity. It is well known that ancient Sumerian texts predated the Hebrew book of Genesis, including the idea of the existence of angels.
Although called different names, angels can also be found within other religions, mythologies, and lore. Hinduism has avatars, Buddhism has devas and bodhisattvas, the Greeks wrote about daimons, and other spirit beings similar to angels, such as guardian spirits and spirit guides, have been taught by tribal cultures.
The reality is this from a biblical perspective. A messenger of God is a person either here on earth, or from the Kingdom of God. The number of wings is symbolic of status, nothing more. The difference being a real person, or Pagan mythology.
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A voice crying in the wilderness.
When it comes to being logical in the deduction of a statement I try to be rational in my approach to a statement. I am afraid the perception now put across by yourself in stipulating that people who read books on a particular subject that you don't agree with, does not quantify you calling them unsophisticated for making a logical basis on wanting to read. The very fact people read a book to find out a subject doesn't warrant your personal attack in any shape or form. Infact the perception you are now putting across in failing to reinforce your arguements and making personal judgements reads as both irrational clattering for a winning argument and also both childish in antics. Those of which where an individual whose arguement has failed and seeks now only to brandish petty assumptions with zero fact.
I don't expect you to be able to construct a reply to this or even to apologise for your actions even though they have been clearly pointed out.
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Throughout this thread I have repeated myself and certain facts. But like bunny rabbits people have jumped all around the facts, never addressing those things. That is the reason for my harsh words. Nobody has decieved me. I know that because those who want to believe that God is evil, and that He tortures people for all eternity are not able to answer my questions or statements, jump over the issues. I am not fooled, I know that people are dodging the facts that I have presented, because they are not able to give an answer. Don't pretend you do not know what I'm talking about.
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squint
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Ah, but you see yours is not the only viable postulation.
I also do not believe God fries any person alive in fire forever or even for a moment, and that God is Good, even Perfect.
yet I also acknowledge there is A HELL for the devil and his messengers...and that these same are bound WITH mankind....You and I are no exception. So before you 'rail' on the evasiveness in your fellow man...you know the drill...engage your own mind and heart for a change. What is 'in you' dodges with the best of 'em.
enjoy!
squint
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C
Cody2
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Your "god" is made up.
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" KJB
Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, not us, but if we deny Christ that is where we're going because God cannot let sin into Heaven.
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