There is no hell.

[PreachersWife2004]

HUH?

That was pretty much my reaction, too.

Makes me wonder what bible MtA has been reading all this time. And what else is missing from it.

 

[GuardianShua]

So you're saying Jesus didn't tell the parable?

It is a well documented fact that Pagans and Gnostic's have tried destroying Christianity from within. Besides that do you trust the Catholic Church to CANonize scripture?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It is a well documented fact that Pagans and Gnostic's have tried destroying Christianity from within. Besides that do you trust the Catholic Church to CANonize scripture?

The old texts have the story. Kinda doubt the Catholics could've messed with those.

And you didn't answer the question. Do you really believe that Jesus never spoke that story?

 

[GuardianShua]

That was pretty much my reaction, too.

Makes me wonder what bible MtA has been reading all this time. And what else is missing from it.

I have a collection of bibles. But besides that I study history and archaeology.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is a well documented fact that Pagans and Gnostic's have tried destroying Christianity from within. Besides that do you trust the Catholic Church to CANonize scripture?

I don't trust their translations/interpretations.

What other parables do you reject out of the Gospels? I view this parable as a "Covenantle" parable.

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

 

[GuardianShua]

I don't trust their translations/interpretations.

What other parables do you reject out of the Gospels? I view this parable as a "Covenantle" parable.

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

What do you mean Covenantle?

 

[GuardianShua]

I don't trust their translations/interpretations.

What other parables do you reject out of the Gospels? I view this parable as a "Covenantle" parable.

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

I do have some what of a list of corrupt scriptures. For example:
Mark 16
The Resurrection
1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?"
4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

6"Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7But go, tell his disciples and Peter, 'He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.' "

8Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

((The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20.))
9When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.
12Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

14Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

19After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What do you mean Covenantle?

Change of Priesthoods. The same way I view Revelation

Hebrews 7:12 For being translated/metatiqemenhV<3346> (5746) the Priesthood, out of necessity also of Law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming/ginetai <1096> (5736)

Luke 21:31 Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these-things becoming/ginwskete <1097> (5720) ye are knowing that nigh/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

It appears to be a Gnostic corruption because it does not agree with scripture.

Darned if that isn't an arbitrary and capricious perspective. It must be a corruption because you can't account for it.

UNlike the story of the adulterous woman, which some say was added after the fact, there is no such view unto the Lazarus story.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the story which disdains flesh or elevates spirit or dualism.

Ergo, you have no basis for your stated argument, except to wave away a parable that is very troubling to your pet theories.

 

[GuardianShua]

Change of Priesthoods. The same way I view Revelation

Hebrews 7:12 For being translated/metatiqemenhV<3346> (5746) the Priesthood, out of necessity also of Law a translation/metaqesiV <3331> is becoming/ginetai <1096> (5736)

Luke 21:31 Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these-things becoming/ginwskete <1097> (5720) ye are knowing that nigh/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God

And how does the word Covenantle relate to Lazarus?

 

[GuardianShua]

Darned if that isn't an arbitrary and capricious perspective. It must be a corruption because you can't account for it.

UNlike the story of the adulterous woman, which some say was added after the fact, there is no such view unto the Lazarus story.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the story which disdains flesh or elevates spirit or dualism.

Ergo, you have no basis for your stated argument, except to wave away a parable that is very troubling to your pet theories.

What you do not know is that Hell is not a original teaching of Judaism. It only stated being introduced by the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews coming out of Babylon.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

And how does the word Covenantle relate to Lazarus?

Read thru Galatian 5.......

Galatian 4:25 For the Hagar, Sinai Mount is in the Arabia is together-elemental/su-stoicei <4960> (5719) yet to the now Jurusalem in servitude with the offsprings of Her .26 The yet above Jerusalem free whoany is Mother of all of us.

Revelation 12:1 And Sign, great was seen in the heaven a Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet/kokkinw <2847> and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls,

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

And that is what I am talking about. And worst than that is any hanky panky during the canonization of scriptures. Obvilously when there is a contradiction there needs to be some investigation for the truth.

Sure- poduce the autographs, or even any significant fragment from the first century, then we'll have a standard by which to critique the received and/or critical texts.

Short of that, the same people who canonized scripture are the same people who gave you the lion's share of even that which is incorporated in the critical text- which, btw, does not vary significantly/theologically from the RT. In short, your insinuations read like Dan Brown.

 

[GuardianShua]

The old texts have the story. Kinda doubt the Catholics could've messed with those.

And you didn't answer the question. Do you really believe that Jesus never spoke that story?

If he did tell a story like that, then some one altered the words because they do not agree with scripture. Personally I do not think Jesus spoke those words. I think some Gnostic was distorting scripture.

 

[GuardianShua]

Sure- poduce the autographs, or even any significant fragment from the first century, then we'll have a standard by which to critique the received and/or critical texts.

Short of that, the same people who canonized scripture are the same people who gave you the lion's share of even that which is incorporated in the critical text- which, btw, does not vary significantly/theologically from the RT. In short, your insinuations read like Dan Brown.

Here is a simple question that can be answered. Do Pagans, Hellenist, Kabbalist and Gnostics believe in Hell?

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

What you do not know is that Hell is not a original teaching of Judaism. It only stated being introduced by the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews coming out of Babylon.

Heaven and hell were both quite unfamiliar to the Jews prior to the Exile. Subsequent to same, Hellenism influenced the thinking of Rabbis and scribes.

Interestingly enough, Jesus seems to have taught things more familiar to salvation and eschatological cults than to the unHellenized Jew. Do you propose He was misinformed?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If he did tell a story like that, then some one altered the words because they do not agree with scripture. Personally I do not think Jesus spoke those words. I think some Gnostic was distorting scripture.

Oh my. I feel for you bro......I believe he is not only representing the "anti-christ" but he is probably the one married to that "queen" in Revelation....

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and in-slipped/enedidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple/porfuran <4209> and busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Reve 17:4 And the Woman having been about-cast of purple/porfura <4209> and scarlet and golded to *gold and stone, precious and pearls,

Revelation 18:7 So as She-glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be ye giving! to Her torment and mourning. That in the heart of Her She is saying 'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I-am, and mourning not no I may be seeing'

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Here is a simple question that can be answered. Do Pagans, Hellenist, Kabbalist and Gnostics believe in Hell?

Are the same monotheistic? Yes? We shall reject the Shema, forthwith.

Why stop there- why not rope in Muslims and Rabbinic Jews? Muslims believe Mary was a Virgin- strike that one.

You propose the guilt by association logical fallacy.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

 

[GuardianShua]

Read thru Galatian 5.......

Galatian 4:25 For the Hagar, Sinai Mount is in the Arabia is together-elemental/su-stoicei <4960> (5719) yet to the now Jurusalem in servitude with the offsprings of Her .26 The yet above Jerusalem free whoany is Mother of all of us.

Revelation 12:1 And Sign, great was seen in the heaven a Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet/kokkinw <2847> and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls,

I understand the scriptures, but anyway lets let this one go bye bye. OK

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do have some what of a list of corrupt scriptures. For example:
Mark 16

That is off topic........