There is no hell.

[Gary51]

theory- is this right after the eternal punishment?

Maybe you and Gary can get together and get your story straight

It's not so much as a story but a belief which is derived from study.... I'm sure you consider your own conclusions from your study a belief rather than a story.

But, of course the whole Bible could be considered a story, just like the Harry potter books are stories. That is if one is not convinced 100% of God's existance, as I am not. I am a seeker, and am therefore seeking. What is becoming clear to me, is that mainstream Christiainty has lost the plot of the Bible's story.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

1 Thess 4:16-17
“we shall all be changed in a moment
in the twinkling of an eye
And the dead shall be raised incorruptible
For this corruptible must put on incorruptible
And this mortal must put on immortality
1 cor 15:51-53

Speaking of the Last Day, of course. Text without context is a pretext. Beware the proof-texter.

Yepperz!!!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015&page=2
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

Matthew 24:31 and He shall be sending His Messengers with a Trumpet/salpiggoV <4536> sound/fwnhV <5456>, great and they shall be together-gathering the Outcalled-ones of Him out of the four winds, from extremities of heavens till the extremities of them. [Revelation 8:6]

Revelation 10:7 But in the Days of the sound/fwnhV <5456> of the seventh Messenger whenever He may be being about to be Trumpeting/salpizein <4537> (5721) also is finish the Mystery of the God as He brings Well-Message to His bond-servants the prophets

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

It's not so much as a story but a belief which is derived from study.... I'm sure you consider your own conclusions from your study a belief rather than a story.

But, of course the whole Bible could be considered a story, just like the Harry potter books are stories. That is if one is not convinced 100% of God's existance, as I am not. I am a seeker, and am therefore seeking. What is becoming clear to me, is that mainstream Christiainty has lost the plot of the Bible's story.

So the student acts as the teacher?

BTW: When I used the word "story," I was speaking colloquially, referring to your contradictory statements.

If you believe, or suspect, that the bible is just a "story," how is it that you can use it to argue for ontological reality? IOW, something that is or will be...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So the student becomes the teacher?

Do you see a relation to the Wrath mentioned by John in Matt 3 to the Gehenna mentioned by Jesus in Matt 23.
Curiously, that form of the word #3195 "about" used in Matt 3:7 is used in Reve 3:10

Matthew 3:7 Being aware yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism of him he said to them "produce of vipers! who shows to ye to be fleeing from the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) Wrath

Matt 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>"

Reve 3:10 That thou keep the Word of the endurance of Me, I also thee shall be keeping out of the hour of the trial of the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) to be coming upon the being-homed, whole, to try the ones dwelling upon the land.

 

[Gary51]

So the student acts as the teacher?

BTW: When I used the word "story," I was speaking colloquially, referring to your contradictory statements.

If you believe, or suspect, that the bible is just a "story," how is it that you can use it to argue for ontological reality? IOW, something that is or will be...

It's hard to gauge emotion via text alone, but you seem angry.

 

[Heber]

Perhaps the (future) mother in law should have the last word...

Young Christian girl at Uni writes home to her mum. Ma, I don't know what to do. I've met this lovely guy who has asked me to marry him but there's a big 'but' in my mind. You see Ma, he says he doesn't believe in hell - and I'm a bit worried that if we have children he'll not teach them the dangers of hell!

Ma writes back in great bold letters: My sweetie, go ahead and marry him, with my blessing! Don't worry that he says he doesn't know the meaning of hell - you just bring him to meet his mother in law... and I'll show him what hell is all about!

Your dearest Ma,

 

[GuardianShua]

Do you see a relation to the Wrath mentioned by John in Matt 3 to the Gehenna mentioned by Jesus in Matt 23.
Curiously, that form of the word #3195 "about" used in Matt 3:7 is used in Reve 3:10

Matthew 3:7 Being aware yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism of him he said to them "produce of vipers! who shows to ye to be fleeing from the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) Wrath

Matt 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067>"

Reve 3:10 That thou keep the Word of the endurance of Me, I also thee shall be keeping out of the hour of the trial of the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) to be coming upon the being-homed, whole, to try the ones dwelling upon the land.

The word Gehennah not being Hell or Hades, you would think the light bulb would go on for some here. If all of the other scripture says "grave" or "Gehennah," and that those words have been replaced with Hell and Hades; then why insist do they that Hell is scriptural.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Yepperz!!!

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7276015&page=2
Olivet Discourse and Revelation Same Event?

Matthew 24:31 and He shall be sending His Messengers with a Trumpet/salpiggoV <4536> sound/fwnhV <5456>, great and they shall be together-gathering the Outcalled-ones of Him out of the four winds, from extremities of heavens till the extremities of them. [Revelation 8:6]

Revelation 10:7 But in the Days of the sound/fwnhV <5456> of the seventh Messenger whenever He may be being about to be Trumpeting/salpizein <4537> (5721) also is finish the Mystery of the God as He brings Well-Message to His bond-servants the prophets

Those taught by the Apostles taught of Hell...

Ignatius of Antioch


"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).

Second Clement


"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).

"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’" (ibid., 17:7).

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

It's hard to gauge emotion via text alone, but you seem angry.

Not at all. Rather, I am very direct.

 

[Gary51]

Not at all. Rather, I am very direct.

Yes, now you come to mention it, I can see that....

Does that come from being doubt free?

 

[X=?]

Oh good I was about to recreate a similar thread title. I've read abit and a lot. I am guessing the Accuser has been sent to earth (so Isaiah says fallen from heaven etc) his minions too. I always thought Hell was fire and brimestone with peopel screaming and wailing etc where the Accuser lives. I guess then that would not be death for people as death is the end of. To be alive and in eternal torment is to be alive in some way or form a consciousness of pain?

I guess by reading a lot of what is here that hell is the place where the Accuser WILL go eventually and so will the false prophet but still am confused to where those who don't believe go or do they just die and go to the Grave or underworld...whatever that may be?

Do we go straight to Gods realm after death and then be judged? I have read accounts (google will help) on people who have died for minutes and been in what they term Hell or for some going to Heaven. So as it is I am still confused.

 

[GuardianShua]

Oh good I was about to recreate a similar thread title. I've read abit and a lot. I am guessing the Accuser has been sent to earth (so Isaiah says fallen from heaven etc) his minions too. I always thought Hell was fire and brimestone with peopel screaming and wailing etc where the Accuser lives. I guess then that would not be death for people as death is the end of. To be alive and in eternal torment is to be alive in some way or form a consciousness of pain?

I guess by reading a lot of what is here that hell is the place where the Accuser WILL go eventually and so will the false prophet but still am confused to where those who don't believe go or do they just die and go to the Grave or underworld...whatever that may be?

Do we go straight to Gods realm after death and then be judged? I have read accounts (google will help) on people who have died for minutes and been in what they term Hell or for some going to Heaven. So as it is I am still confused.

I understand the nature of your complaint. People can have expierences that are real or imagined. The question here is: How is it that they went to Hell before that day of judgment? Because there is more error in the world than truth, that makes it hard to find the truth. Keep an open mind, but don't believe everything. I would say that it is most likly that they had a dream or a vision than it being a reality.

 

[GuardianShua]

X equals death. X does not equal life. Case solved.​

 

[X=?]

X equals death. X does not equal life. Case solved.​

It depends on the value associated to X, Algebraic or even X marks the spot for treasure. There is sure treasure to be found but its all a case of reimaging the worlds blanking of Christ, especially in Christmas (Xmas).

Its all about taking back ground and reimaging the negative perspective, the view you have made reads as negative...so not a case solved more like a beating down of your view.

WWJD was such a wording and X, is something being worked on

 

[X=?]

I understand the nature of your complaint. People can have expierences that are real or imagined. The question here is: How is it that they went to Hell before that day of judgment? Because there is more error in the world than truth, that makes it hard to find the truth. Keep an open mind, but don't believe everything. I would say that it is most likly that they had a dream or a vision than it being a reality.

Firstly its not a complaint.

Secondly I would not feel comfortable or even want to pass judgement other than raise anothers experience in this instance.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

Michael where are you coming up with all these beliefs? You are condemning a theory that has been widely accepted throughout all of Christianity.

Read the old testament. Our God does not hesitate to punish those who do not respect his word. I doubt he will not do the same after death as well.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I am talking about the final judgment when after God brings them back to life, and afterward He kills them. That,s according to scripture.

Yes, well, that is the opinion of the Theologians. How can there be life in Hell after God kills them? The words life and death or living and dead are opposites. Do you believe that they will come back alive after God kills them?

Oy ve.

You completely ignored my posts.

I think i need to take time out from GT again.

So how do you explain that even the early Christian teachers said death means hell.
And life means Heaven..?

Ahhh...soul sleep and annhilationism under one error-filled tent. These two have been argued ad nauseum.

And on that note; The soul sleep mentioned in the Bible is usually in the OT prior to Christ opening the graves & the ghosts [souls] started roaming around...seen by the town.

The word Abyss means: Deep Unknown. Some say: Bottomless Pit. Since there is no such thing as a bottomless pit, then my answer would be best.

Explain why it says the wicked will be cast down to the abyss created for satan and his angels?

Could you explain that?

Those taught by the Apostles taught of Hell...

Oh good I was about to recreate a similar thread title. I've read abit and a lot. I am guessing the Accuser has been sent to earth (so Isaiah says fallen from heaven etc) his minions too. I always thought Hell was fire and brimestone with peopel screaming and wailing etc where the Accuser lives. I guess then that would not be death for people as death is the end of. To be alive and in eternal torment is to be alive in some way or form a consciousness of pain?

I guess by reading a lot of what is here that hell is the place where the Accuser WILL go eventually and so will the false prophet but still am confused to where those who don't believe go or do they just die and go to the Grave or underworld...whatever that may be?

Do we go straight to Gods realm after death and then be judged? I have read accounts (google will help) on people who have died for minutes and been in what they term Hell or for some going to Heaven. So as it is I am still confused.

Some will not see the face of God.
Which is their punishment.

Basically the soul already knows it is evil and or sinful and unworthy of God and will seek refuge in hell from the wrath of God.

I hear His wrath is serious - !

 

[GuardianShua]

Oy ve.

You completely ignored my posts.

I think i need to take time out from GT again.

So how do you explain that even the early Christian teachers said death means hell.
And life means Heaven..?




And on that note; The soul sleep mentioned in the Bible is usually in the OT prior to Christ opening the graves & the ghosts [souls] started roaming around...seen by the town.

Explain why it says the wicked will be cast down to the abyss created for satan and his angels?

Could you explain that?




Some will not see the face of God.
Which is their punishment.

Basically the soul already knows it is evil and or sinful and unworthy of God and will seek refuge in hell from the wrath of God.

I hear His wrath is serious - !

Matthew 27:53
They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
2 Timothy 2:16.
Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
The Catholic Church CANonized scripture. The word Hell is added to scripture in place of Gehenna, grave or pit. The word Abyss means deep unknown. The word Satan means Accuser. The word messenger has been replaced with the word angel.

 

[X=?]

I like nice and simple as this is nice and simple.

Jesus said before he went, he'd be back, Luke in the beginning of Acts wrote this.

The resurrection that was referred to as already taking place was that of the 2nd comming.

Also it is worth sharing a personal experience in that, that was said to me last night about concern in my personal interest over this thread etc.

God spoke into my heart and mind whilst I was praying, that I should not dwell on death but to focus on life. For no fruit could develop from dwelling on the realm of death. Though as a curious human being I still would like to know but it is not something I should get hung up on and would hamper my growth in Christ.

 

[GuardianShua]

Michael where are you coming up with all these beliefs? You are condemning a theory that has been widely accepted throughout all of Christianity.

Read the old testament. Our God does not hesitate to punish those who do not respect his word. I doubt he will not do the same after death as well.

The things I say are based on scripture and history.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
Now if God kills the wicked, how do they come back to life to live in hell?
The Catholic Church Canonized scripture.

These quotes are from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.

"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and cant. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
"Canopus. In Egyptian mythology, a water god, represented on vessels of a spherical shape." That is, the shape of a serpent.
"Cannibalism, Kan/i/bal/ism, a customary, socially approved practice, among certain barbarous peoples, of eating human flesh." "The fact that the older, learned term "anthropophagy" derives from the classic Greek anthropos (man) , and phagein (eat), suggests that from ancient times barbarous peoples were known to eat human flesh, or at least were accused of doing so."

Here is a list of proper names of some snakes.

Apostolepis: nick name, messenger snake.
Acanthophis: Adder's.
Canna, Pseudaspis: Mole snake.
Candidus, Bungarus.
Candoia: #1. Aspera, #2. Bibroni, #3. Carinata.
Caninus, Corallas: Emerald tree boa.
Cantherigerus, Alsophis.
Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus.
Cantori, Trimeresurus.
Canum, Gyalopion: Western hook-nosed.
Canus, Tropidophis.

Does anyone know what the word "Vatican" means?