• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

There is no hell.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
29,117
6,145
EST
✟1,123,523.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Here is one link for you with some scholars mentioned:
http://www.geocities.com/robert_upci/origin_of_the_trinity_by_chalfant.htm

Use your own time to find the rest.

"Some scholars mentioned . . ." means nothing. Anybody can create a website and say, "This is pagan." "That is pagan.""This was copied from such and such society." What is required for credible, verifiable, historical evidence are writings from at or near the times in question by the participants, or direct eyewitnesses. Someone saying, "The Trinity originated in Babylon." is meaningless without historical Babylonian writings supporting it. Writings from ancient Babylon exist, as do ancient Egyptian writings, etc. Where do these ancient writings document a triad or a trinity? News flash! They don't! The only "writings" which make this claim are 20th century books or websites, such as the one linked, above.
 
Upvote 0

george

Veteran
Mar 29, 2002
1,648
80
58
springfield,ky
Visit site
✟2,406.00
Faith
Non-Denom
God is eterinal, and the punishment for sin has to be eterinal. or else their would be know justice for the blood that christ shed on the cross. hell itself can not make up for the blood that was shed. thats why the punishment has to be eterinal. when we make a decision to choose or reject christ. we also make a eterinal decision. to be with him or to be seperated from him in a place called hell for eterinity.

if sin is not punish or only punished temperoally-then one could say. that he could be punish enough to pay for the sins he committed against God. and if one could be punished enough. then what does that say about God. so in the same way. you can't earn your way to heaven. just like you can't be punished enough to pay off your sins.
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
God is eterinal, and the punishment for sin has to be eterinal. or else their would be know justice for the blood that christ shed on the cross. hell itself can not make up for the blood that was shed. thats why the punishment has to be eterinal. when we make a decision to choose or reject christ. we also make a eterinal decision. to be with him or to be seperated from him in a place called hell for eterinity.

if sin is not punish or only punished temperoally-then one could say. that he could be punish enough to pay for the sins he committed against God. and if one could be punished enough. then what does that say about God. so in the same way. you can't earn your way to heaven. just like you can't be punished enough to pay off your sins.
Hello George, did you start at the begining of this thread, or did you just jump into the middle? If you jumped into the middle then you missed some important text.
 
Upvote 0

Jig

Christ Follower
Oct 3, 2005
4,529
399
Texas
✟23,214.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The most convincing evidence for the eternality in the LOF is Matthew 25:46: “Then they [the wicked] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the exact same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in Heaven for an age. If believers will be in Heaven forever, unbelievers will be in the LOF forever.

bump
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
As you know Jig, Revelation is full of parables. I have said many times that the word "fire" and others like it are used to mean judgment.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
If Yahwah kills the wicked, then how is there life in hell?
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul (spirit). Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul (spirit) and body in hell (Geenna).
If the spirit is dead, how is there any life in the fires of Gehenna; the city dump outside of Jerusalem, where the fires burned day and night?
Since the death of those spirits whom Yahwah kills is forever, then how do they come alive to live in hell?
 
Upvote 0

ThomasDa

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,197
101
✟1,858.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Originally Posted by Jig
The most convincing evidence for the eternality in the LOF is Matthew 25:46: “Then they [the wicked] will go away to eternal punishment, (not eternal punishing) but the righteous to eternal life.” (Notice this punishment is placed in contrast to eternal life) In this verse, the exact same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in Heaven for an age. If believers will be in Heaven forever, unbelievers will be in the LOF forever.
(God is the God of love not some kind of monster. Only an evil monster could punish some one forever for things they did for only 70 years. How sad it is that anyone would believe things like that about the God of the Bible.)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ThomasDa

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,197
101
✟1,858.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Actually God is not punishing them eternally. :) The choice was made when they rejected Christ and the truth. This is just the consequence of sin. :)
So are you saying that God is not in control? How strange that sounds. After all God says He is almighty and creator of every thing.
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
This eternal punishment is indeed truth. Jesus speaks of it. Revelation is not parables but revelation. This is the truth revealed to John that John was told to write down for all to read and to those whom have ears to hear to listen to and for those who have eyes to see to look upon.
You do not see any parables in Revelation?
Revelation 1:20. The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

:confused:
 
Upvote 0
So are you saying that God is not in control? How strange that sounds. After all God says He is almighty and creator of every thing.
^_^ Yup He is and when the time comes that those who are resurrected to the second death means that all sin will be dealt with and also death. Therefore those whom have rejected Christ will go to the consequence of this rejection. It is not as if God is down there stirring the flames. :)
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
Revelation is full of parables. I have said many times that the word "fire" and others like it are used to mean judgment.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
If Yahwah kills the wicked, then how is there life in hell?
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul (spirit). Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul (spirit) and body in hell (Geenna).
If the spirit is dead, how is there any life in the fires of Gehenna; the city dump outside of Jerusalem, where the fires burned day and night?
Since the death of those spirits whom Yahwah kills is forever, then how do they come alive to live in hell?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation is full of parables. I have said many times that the word "fire" and others like it are used to mean judgment.
Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
If Yahwah kills the wicked, then how is there life in hell?
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul (spirit). Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul (spirit) and body in hell (Geenna).
If the spirit is dead, how is there any life in the fires of Gehenna; the city dump outside of Jerusalem, where the fires burned day and night?
Since the death of those spirits whom Yahwah kills is forever, then how do they come alive to live in hell?
First off, whos "Yahwah"? Yahweh.
Second off *winds up and throws scripture*:


2 Thessalonians 1:8
In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:28
That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.


Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 18:8
And if thy hand, or thy foot, scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41
Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jude 7
As Sodom and Gomorrha and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication and going after other flesh, were made an example,suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:


Revelation 21:8
But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torments, shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast and his image and whoever receiveth the character of his name

Revelation 20:10
And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Isaiah 66:24
And they shall go out, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched: and they shall be a loathsome sight to all flesh.

Matthew 9:45-46
And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God than having two eyes to be cast into the hell of fire: 47 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.

John 3:36
He that believeth in the Son hath life everlasting: but he that believeth not the Son shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The punishment in Hell is the second death(Revelation 21:8).
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by MichaelTheeArchAngel Revelation is full of parables. I have said many times that the word "fire" and others like it are used to mean judgment.
I would agree with that as most of it is in OC/OT Hebrew/Jewish symbology also.
Would you say that Messenger in Reve 8:5 is JESUS or one of His Father's Messengers. And does this occurr on the whole global world of today? :wave:

Luke 12:49 Fire I came to be casting upon the Land and any I am willing if already it was kindled.

Revelation 8:5 And has taken, the Messenger, the franckincensor, and he crams-full it out of the Fire of the Altar and he casts it into the Land and became thunders and sounds and lightnings and quaking [Revelation 18:18]
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
I would agree with that as most of it is in OC/OT Hebrew/Jewish symbology also.
Would you say that Messenger in Reve 8:5 is JESUS or one of His Father's Messengers. And does this occurr on the whole global world of today? :wave:

Luke 12:49 Fire I came to be casting upon the Land and any I am willing if already it was kindled.

Revelation 8:5 And has taken, the Messenger, the franckincensor, and he crams-full it out of the Fire of the Altar and he casts it into the Land and became thunders and sounds and lightnings and quaking [Revelation 18:18]
The messenger in Rev 8:5 could be Yahshua, but there is not enough info to be sure.
 
Upvote 0

GuardianShua

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
8,666
303
✟10,663.00
Faith
First off, whos "Yahwah"? Yahweh.
Second off *winds up and throws scripture*:


2 Thessalonians 1:8
In a flame of fire (Judgment), giving vengeance to them who know not God and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:28
That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.(Punishment)


Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:(Punishment) there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat(Christians) into the barn;(Heaven) but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.(Judgment)

Matthew 18:8
And if thy hand, or thy foot, scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. It is better for thee to go into life maimed or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire.(Judgment)

Matthew 25:41
Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire,(Judgment) which was prepared for the devil(Accuser) and his angels.(messengers)

Jude 7
As Sodom and Gomorrha and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication and going after other flesh, were made an example,suffering the punishment of eternal fire.(Judgment)

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his power:(Literal)


Revelation 21:8
But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone,(Judgment) which is the second death

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torments,(punishment) shall ascend up for ever and ever:(Parabolic for eternity) neither have they rest day nor night,(They do not enter Gods rest) who have adored(Paid tribute) the beast(Nation) and his image(Other Nation) and whoever receiveth the character(Title) of his name

Revelation 20:10
And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever(Punished for an eternity)

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.(Literal)

Isaiah 66:24
And they shall go out, and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: their worm shall not die,(parabolic for eternal destruction) and their fire(Judgment) shall not be quenched: and they shall be a loathsome sight to all flesh.(Literal)

Matthew 9:45-46
And if thy eye scandalize thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee with one eye to enter into the kingdom of God than having two eyes to be cast into the hell(Gehenna) of fire:(Judgment) 47 Where their worm dieth not,(parabolic for destruction) and the fire (Judgment) is not extinguished.

John 3:36
He that believeth in the Son hath life everlasting: but he that believeth not the Son shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him.(Literal)

The punishment in Hell(Gehenna) is the second death(Revelation 21:8).
My answers are marked in blue.
 
Upvote 0

MaxP

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,040
82
✟24,069.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Republican
My answers are marked in blue.
Even taking your weak translation, Hell exists.
And btw, since you seem to be claiming an expertise on ancient Greek, I'd like to see some credentials that qualify you to claim the translations of those who are experts in ancient languages are wrong.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.