There is no Hell!

[Nadiine]

How many times has it been said? Matthew, Isaiah, Revelation, Jude, Luke, Daniel? They all speak of a place of contempt, eternal fire, condemnation! That's fairly consistent with the idea of a lake of fire isn't it? Or are you going to then dig up some obscure greek translation, give 5 words for what it could possibly mean and argue that? Face it, there is a place of condemnation for those who die in inequity!

Matthew 13 NIV

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

The spiritually dead do not hear because their hearts are hardened, they do not turn because they are too set in their ways. They are the ones who will reject Christ. They are the ones who will die in their inequity! Some will hear His words and be moved by the Spirit. Some will hear the words of God and be stirred because a new life is breathed into them through Christ. These are the ones whom have chosen salvation, because they are not deaf in their sins. They are the ones who will be saved! Who they are by name? Only God knows, and it is only God who has the right to decree who will or will not be condemned. How is that determined? By Salvation. The mercy of the Cross. Without a threat of eternal seperation from God or eternal condemnation, there is no reason for Christ's sacrifice as has been stated many times over. But since God's words are good and true, then there is but one logical assumption.

Now as for why someone would walk away from this argument? That's obvious. The truth has been laid out before you. But you reject it, an claim it as a heresy. But I assure you, there are many verses in line with scripture that warns of a terrible fate for the unrepentant, but all the ones you point out for universal reconcilliation, are merely taken out of context. You have no argument here. No doubt you're going to post a wall of text copied from some book you have to refute everything that's been said here, so with this I finally take my leave of this thread. God bless and may the truth find you.

 

[Ben12]

How many times has it been said? Matthew, Isaiah, Revelation, Jude, Luke, Daniel? They all speak of a place of contempt, eternal fire, condemnation! That's fairly consistent with the idea of a lake of fire isn't it? Or are you going to then dig up some obscure greek translation, give 5 words for what it could possibly mean and argue that? Face it, there is a place of condemnation for those who die in inequity!

Matthew 13 NIV

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

The spiritually dead do not hear because their hearts are hardened, they do not turn because they are too set in their ways. They are the ones who will reject Christ. They are the ones who will die in their inequity! Some will hear His words and be moved by the Spirit. Some will hear the words of God and be stirred because a new life is breathed into them through Christ. These are the ones whom have chosen salvation, because they are not deaf in their sins. They are the ones who will be saved! Who they are by name? Only God knows, and it is only God who has the right to decree who will or will not be condemned. How is that determined? By Salvation. The mercy of the Cross. Without a threat of eternal seperation from God or eternal condemnation, there is no reason for Christ's sacrifice as has been stated many times over. But since God's words are good and true, then there is but one logical assumption.

Now as for why someone would walk away from this argument? That's obvious. The truth has been laid out before you. But you reject it, an claim it as a heresy. But I assure you, there are many verses in line with scripture that warns of a terrible fate for the unrepentant, but all the ones you point out for universal reconcilliation, are merely taken out of context. You have no argument here. No doubt you're going to post a wall of text copied from some book you have to refute everything that's been said here, so with this I finally take my leave of this thread. God bless and may the truth find you.

Hit in run

 

[cleverest]

Two easy YES/NO questions for those who serve a God of eternal punishment.

1. When Christ, on the cross, dying...asked His father to forgive the men below him, gambling...were they forgiven? (aka: are they not destined to an eternal hell?)

YES or NO? We can discuss AFTER this is answered, keep it simple, it's YES or NO...there is no MAYBE or IF/BUTS....YES or NO please.

2. When Christ taught to not only love our neighbors, but also our enemies as well (and do GOOD unto them), is there a place in scripture that voids or reverses that love at a future time-frame? Let's say...during or after judgement? After that person dies? When we are tired of it? Etc...Are we not expected to maintain that love for "enemies" forever as long as that person exists? Isn't this the same as we would strive to maintain the commandments for ALL that Christ commends us to do, now and forever?

YES or NO, you can elaborate a bit more on this since I asked many questions in this one, but TRY to keep it simple because we know it will get complicated on its own.

God Bless your understanding.


- Brett

 

[cleverest]

Soundcard and all like-minded believers,

When you, after death, are eventually in heaven and surrounded by harps and dancing minstrels or whatever imagery you choose to imagine is most blissful to you, happen to look down and see all the lost, broken, screaming people burning in constant writhing agony below, will you remember to "love thy enemy" or do you feel justified somehow to deny Christ's commandment at that very moment because you got your free ride into the gates of heaven??

So...will God just (kindly?) deceive your mind to forgot about the plight of the lost below, and just "brush it off", is that how a God of Truth and real knowledge works?

I tell you now, anyone who isn't willing to charge into that dismal place to save every one of those "enemies", everyone of those HUMANS, as Christ powerfully did as a clear example for us with the physically afflicted, isn't worthy of that heavenly reward at all.

Christ DIED for the ungodly, not the pompous religious elite. He didn't die in vain either.

God have mercy on all such souls.

 

[JHM]

Hell exists allright. About 20 miles beneath your feet. The lake of fire? You bet; but it isn't water, it's liquid rock. What keeps it liquid? Scientists say "pressure". Once again, however, just like evolution, they are way off base.

Pressure is a one time gig. When you compress a gas it heats up. (True) But it does not go on heating up unless ADDITIONAL pressure is applied. So when you apply pressure to something it heats up yes; but then it starts to cool. (Second law of thermodynamics - also known as entropy) With by their own estimate 4.5 billion years to cool off, why then is it still liquid?

Evil spirits.

Scientists also say that the bulk of the earth's radio-active material is locked up in the crust. Absolute nonsense!! They arrive at their conclusion by calculating the amount of heat that the earth absorbs of that which is recieved from the sun and subtracting the amount of heat that they calculate that the earth radiates into space. Can you smell some rough guesswork here?
I can. From these calculations they conclude that there is little heat emanating from the core; and hence no radio-actives there.

 

[SoundCard]

Yet again I make a liar of myself by going against my word of not posting further, but the Lord will forgive me, for He is merciful. You claim God is a God of love. But does He not also have wrath? Yes, this is true. I believe that. But what do you think of all the passages in Matthew about hell and eternal fire? Do you just disregard those because it's inconvenient to how you think it should work? Do you think I would honestly opt for a view that quite frankly is terrifying to the unbeliever? I think not, but yet it seems quite clear that the unrepentant face something that the believer does not.

This sums it up rather well I think

John 3:36 NIV

36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

So, what then does that speak of? It's not speaking of heaven, or the New Jerusalem to be precise, so what then is left?
*e* You know what? After this I really am going to try to not post in this thread anymore. God knows how many times the position has been brought up, and He also knows how much basis there is in scripture for the idea that there is such a thing as eternal damnation for unrepentant sins. How many times do we see things saying we need to have Faith? If Hell isn't real, or the lake of fire, then why did Christ come? He came to save us from sin and death and destruction. Through Him we are indeed saved, but not all will come to Him, not all will be saved. Not everyone will be spared judgment. Yet, I have the feeling no matter how many times myself, or someone else, says this, any dissenters will never see it as such, they'll call us "eternalhellists" or people who neglect God's love in favor of eternal condemnation. Say what you will. I'm done arguing this. I'm not dragging this out another 57 pages.

 

[InHisPeace]

I just read the first page and the last page, so I'm sorry for dragging old posts up again everyone!

To be honest I just don't buy the doctrine of Hell either.

The concept of Hell is part of the Pagan religion.

Just like sooo many other Church teachings and concepts...

God means what he saids, and hell is no made up place, and you are calling God a liar.

But it was man that taught Hell, not God.
Man does lie.

Soundcard and all like-minded believers,

When you, after death, are eventually in heaven and surrounded by harps and dancing minstrels or whatever imagery you choose to imagine is most blissful to you, happen to look down and see all the lost, broken, screaming people burning in constant writhing agony below, will you remember to "love thy enemy" or do you feel justified somehow to deny Christ's commandment at that very moment because you got your free ride into the gates of heaven??

So...will God just (kindly?) deceive your mind to forgot about the plight of the lost below, and just "brush it off", is that how a God of Truth and real knowledge works?

I tell you now, anyone who isn't willing to charge into that dismal place to save every one of those "enemies", everyone of those HUMANS, as Christ powerfully did as a clear example for us with the physically afflicted, isn't worthy of that heavenly reward at all.

Christ DIED for the ungodly, not the pompous religious elite. He didn't die in vain either.

God have mercy on all such souls.

Finally! A thinker.
Yes! Jesus came not for the righteous but the unrighteous. (the people who are rejected, scorned and condemned by the "righteous")

I guess the hardest thing for me in trying to accept the doctrine of Hell was the thought that an all-loving and merciful Father could send His own children to BURN and be tortured for all eternity.
To me it seems such a mythical, superstitious idea.
Now I don't have children so I wouldn't know, but how often have I heard a parent say that no matter what their children did, they could never stop loving them.
Could we possibly love more than Love itself?

Maybe it's just my limited understanding, but I cannot imagine the God I know and love creating a place that is as torturous as He can possibly make it, for His own children to be in agony for eternity if He decides they are unworthy.
This just doesn't make sense to me.
The way I see it, it is man who judges and condemns his fellow man so harshly. This is the way of man, not God.

Love and peace.

 

[JHM]

But even the ancient Greeks and Romans knew that PLUTO was the God of the underworld. What has that got to do with Hell?

Well it is this way. When a planet heats up to the point that parts of it become molten, it "DIFERENTIATES", which means it separates into layers by density with the heaviest going to the centre. So it is that scientists (Magicians) know that earth has an iron core. But the major radio-actives, U238, U235, and T 232 are all more than twice as dense as Iron. Logically the very centre of the core is a sphere enriched in U238. (halflife 8.5 Billion years) next come a thin shell enriched in U235 (.06% of quantity of U238 - halflife 813000 years) finally come a much thicker shell enriched in T232 (Halflife 10.5 Billion Years)

Now when you arrange Uranium and Thorium in shells like that what you have is a fast breeder reactor. (And in this case a very big one)

New subtopic: Uranium 238 and Thorium 232 are said to be "Nonfissile" This means that they are too stable to support a "chain reaction" Uranium 235, however, is said to be "Fissile". What this means is that it is sufficiently unstable that it will support a chain reaction. i.e. If a large enough quantity of Uranium 235 is assembled in one mass called a "Critical mass", then what will happen is that as the urainium atoms decay and split they will give off highly energetic neutrons which upon striking other atoms will cause them to split too. If the mass is critical each atom splitting causes more than one additional atom to split and you get an accelerating chain reaction called an Atomic Bomb.

The division of the materials in the core however is not complete, there is mixture, which reduces it to being a breeder reactor. A breeder reactor is one that creates more fuel than it consumes. This neat trick is accomplished by surrounding the core with a blanket of either Thorium 232 or Uranium 238. What happens is the thorium atoms are too stable to split when struck by a neutron so instead of splitting the capture the neutron changing in the process (Transmuting) to Uranium 233 which IS Fissile. Similarly the Uranium 238 atoms which are struck by neutrons also capture said neutrons, transmuting to :

ARE YOU READY?

PLUTONIUM 239 which is also fissile. (Which Scientists [poor dummies] claim 'Does not exist in nature"). Since Uranium 238 is over 100 times as common as Uranium 235, and since Uranium 238 transmutes to PLUTOnium 239 it is fair to say that the ancient greeks and Romans knew more about the core of the earth than scientists. Pluto is indeed the God of the underworld.

Spirit ~ Mass Conversion

Three demons beloved by Satan, fornicating and causing great strife;
Brought before the great seat of judgement; were sentenced eternal life.
Let their souls slowly shrivel forever; in a lake of fiery white heat;
To be granted forgiveness never; Let their children die at their feet;
Weigh them in chains; let infliction of pains; by scourgings give reason to weep;
Then put them in cells; a sphere and two shells; and cast all three in the deep.
Now 238 dwells; in the nethermost hell; to bear her brat out of view;
While 235 fell, to the innermost shell; and the outer holds 232.

The Archangel Micheal was astounded by the severity of the sentence, but he would not speak against God -- Book of Enoch - gist of passage

Eternity - Halflife 10.5 billion years.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Some people believe that hell is just a spiritual state, where people are in God's presence but feel it as pain because they hate Him. Some other people believe that hell was not created by God as a punishment but is just a consequence of hating Him and spiritual death. According to these ideas, God wants to save everyone and takes no pleasure in people burning in hell and suffering.

Those of you who don't believe in hell, what do you think of these ideas? Do they make you see hell in a different way?

God bless.

 

[LJSGM]

But it was man that taught Hell, not God.
Man does lie.

Are you saying that Jesus, who was the son of man, lied?

Hell is very much in the bible. I would rather call them hades and gehenna fire, since they are two different places. But Jesus preached on gehenna fire as well.
Matthew 25


31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Finally! A thinker.
Yes! Jesus came not for the righteous but the unrighteous. (the people who are rejected, scorned and condemned by the "righteous")

Well, if you understood scriptures better, Jesus came not only to redeem and forgive those that chose Him, but he also came to make us righteous, a righteousness that is from God, through the Holy Spirit, by becoming a NEW creation, born again.

I guess the hardest thing for me in trying to accept the doctrine of Hell was the thought that an all-loving and merciful Father could send His own children to BURN and be tortured for all eternity.
To me it seems such a mythical, superstitious idea.
Now I don't have children so I wouldn't know, but how often have I heard a parent say that no matter what their children did, they could never stop loving them.
Could we possibly love more than Love itself?

1: the suffering being forever is false from my understanding. The gehenna fire completely destroys that which it's comsuming.

2. Not all are God's children, only those that TURN to God, and repent of their rebellion and disobeidance.

Maybe it's just my limited understanding, but I cannot imagine the God I know and love creating a place that is as torturous as He can possibly make it, for His own children to be in agony for eternity if He decides they are unworthy.

He doesn't.

The wages of sin is DEATH, not torture.

This just doesn't make sense to me.
The way I see it, it is man who judges and condemns his fellow man so harshly. This is the way of man, not God.

God is a God of justice as well as love.

He has to be a good judge.

If you went to trial before a judge and begged for mercy (assuming he could give it) and he knew that you ment it and let you off for your crime. Was the judge a good judge?

What if a man went before a judge for raping and killing, lets say, your sister, and the rapest did not ask for mercy, but instead spit in the judge's face, yet, right in front of you, the judge decides to let him go because he doesn't want anyone to suffer. And in fact, he did this with every crime that was commited. Would the judge still be a good judge, still compentant at doing his job? Think about it.

Mercy is giving only if asked for.

 

[cleverest]

SoundCard,

I'm sorry you are weary of this topic, truly it is a laboring topic to involve oneself in on a regular basis...but I think of those who live a life wary of a God who is capable of such a barbarous terrorist act of eternal torture and it gives me strength to speak against such deceit.

Let's look at uncle Ted... He always just shrugged away God because he didn't have "proof" (in his simple SIGHT/HEARING mind anyways, and maybe his parents were hard-core atheists and he was indoctrinated growing up)...so now Ted gets to burn forever next to a serial killer...oh maybe 20 degrees cooler though...since God won't bother to redeem either, I guess they get the same short end of the stick. Saul was lucky, he was killing Christians and God just decided to save him. No example of God's ability to reconcile us with Him in there at all for us to pray upon....none at all huh.

And this is Justice? Any punishment taken to the infinite extreme loses ANY justice ever in it. There are few stripes and many stripes, but NOT infinite stripes.

It doesn't matter if you continue this dialog or continue to really think about this topic, it doesn't matter if you cannot see the difference between judgment and hell...it doesn't matter if you believe God only capable of issuing justice by punishing for all eternity and that He is incapable of being just and punishing instead TO FIT THE CRIME ("judged according to their works" not above and beyond it.) It only matters what you would do at that hypothetical moment I gave above, and to me that reveals the deepest spiritual nature of a person and IF that person truly KNOWS God more then any theology degree or promise they could utter to me will ever do.

God is Infinite != God's punishment is infinite...well then, what about His love? That quality expires at physical death? LIES, LIES, LIES....why do we throw this away in place of wrath like they serve opposite interests in a PERFECT GOD?...funny we are taught to pride charity (greek: agape, 'love') above ALL ELSE...when God can't be bothered follow His own great advice....maybe because the wrong God has been enthroned in the churches for too long?

Salvation isn't about avoiding hell, There is plenty God saves us from, least of all pagan creations of religion..but real things, pain, suffering, diseases, to name a few, and God is worthy to be praised and obeyed for those reasons alone, PRAISE GOD FOR HIS LOVE and hell be damned..

That doesn't mean God's wrath isn't very REAL and GREAT, but it serves His love ultimately, because like all things, IT MUST. God is not schizophrenic with all of these qualities...and it's not the other way around in which case wrath is the very essence of God over-riding His love and ability to forgive and have mercy..which it must be if the majority of God's creation is on the receiving end of eternal damnation...how I pray my brothers and sisters can see this for the powerful Gospel that it is. A Gospel to truly change a person's heart and liberate them from an irrational fear of a spoiled tyrant God in "popular" Christianity.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

That's all I will say, except for direct responses...I doubt anyone cares to read more this late into the thread anyways.

 

[JHM]

You quote Revelations 18 - 4. Do you know what it means? That is the area I have spent most of my time on. I can't quote Paul, because I only read his stuff while I was reading cover to cover; and have not looked at it since. But Revelations, Isaiah, Zecharaiah I have paid a lot of attention to.

Who is the "Her" that his people are supposed to come out of?

 

[cleverest]

LJSGM,

You say:

Well, if you understood scriptures better, Jesus came not only to redeem and forgive those that chose Him, but he also came to make us righteous, a righteousness that is from God, through the Holy Spirit, by becoming a NEW creation, born again.

I agree we must be made righteous but I disagree probably on your idea of when and what that constitutes...Do you believe God is incapable or unwilling to do this for everyone when scripture teaches that ALL WILL BOW and CONFESS to God? Doesn't scripture even teach what confession yields a person? (yup, salvation) Doesn't scripture teach that there is one that will BAPTIZE with FIRE....(of which water was a symbol for) Also doesn't scripture teach that God will reconcile all things in heaven and earth (and under the earth) so that will be ALL IN ALL?

Does that mean eternal hell will be ALL IN ALL with God as well? Was God just joking about this ALL IN ALL teaching and He was maybe being overly dramatic about it? Because all those screaming blasphemous hordes of His created people burning in hell inside the ALL IN ALL God would get pretty depressing after awhile.

What a truly scary conclusion and the only one I can see being drawn by those who believe in such a God, that is, if you believe the scriptures mentioned above. (which I can provide to anyone upon request).

God bless your understanding.


- Brett

 

[cleverest]

JHM,

The answer is long and involved like much of the deeper spiritual things in scripture. It's not a particular church, a specific denomination, it's not the catholics, the protestants, the Mormon's, the Church of Satan, or some future organization not yet existing, etc..this book is meant to be KEPT by all who read it..and understood by those who God opens the eyes of to see it....no one else can open the seals...only Christ can open them...John understood the frustration of this spiritual teachings and he wept over this fact as we all do when we start to grasp this principle.

Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Only Christ healed the blind in scripture. He physically healed them as a shadow, a physical example of a deeper spiritual truth.

The key phrase is MY PEOPLE in the Rev verse, which most people seem to miss completely....these are God's very people, His true Elect, you cannot come out of something unless you are IN IT ALREADY.

What is common to all of God's people across all denominations as they sit in their church, hearing the same message, half truths and half lies (let's be honest, most denominations disagree on things, many things are either true or false, so some things are lies, let's be frank about it)....well what is then that all of these have IN common with one another...if 1 of these denominations aren't teaching the complete truth and all together they are not teaching all of it (without contradictions, which are clearly present)...then...then.....

Well, I think it's obvious.

Other things to ponder:

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

What is EARTH in scripture? I'll let you look for that treasure...but where is this "harlot"?

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

What water? no not liquid water, the next verse tells us what the water IS

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

This topic is way too involved to cover in a thread on a web forum...sorry...God bless your understanding.

 

[JHM]

I have actually done it. 17 pages in my scripture studies document. And very scary stuff it is. The harlot is "Babylon", and when I read the Bible cover to cover taking notes, I made notes about every single reference to Babylon that I encountered; including those which were not direct references but rather indirect references, in that they gave other names which were parts of the Babylonian empire.

Get all those references together and study them, try applying them to different possibilities till you find something that fits all of them. Then you have the answer. Research anomalies and you will learn even more.

 

[Zecryphon]

LJSGM,

You say:
I agree we must be made righteous but I disagree probably on your idea of when and what that constitutes...Do you believe God is incapable or unwilling to do this for everyone when scripture teaches that ALL WILL BOW and CONFESS to God? Doesn't scripture even teach what confession yields a person? (yup, salvation) Doesn't scripture teach that there is one that will BAPTIZE with FIRE....(of which water was a symbol for) Also doesn't scripture teach that God will reconcile all things in heaven and earth (and under the earth) so that will be ALL IN ALL?

Does that mean eternal hell will be ALL IN ALL with God as well? Was God just joking about this ALL IN ALL teaching and He was maybe being overly dramatic about it? Because all those screaming blasphemous hordes of His created people burning in hell inside the ALL IN ALL God would get pretty depressing after awhile.

What a truly scary conclusion and the only one I can see being drawn by those who believe in such a God, that is, if you believe the scriptures mentioned above. (which I can provide to anyone upon request).

God bless your understanding.


- Brett

Do you have some scriptures that we could examine to verify your claims? For instance, that confession alone leads to salvation and all the other claims you've made here?

 

[GuardianShua]

Do you have some scriptures that we could examine to verify your claims? For instance, that confession alone leads to salvation and all the other claims you've made here?

Warning, this web site is not politically correct for this forum. It's your choice. You have been warned. http://www.remnantofgod.org/666-CHAR.htm

 

[cleverest]

Do you have some scriptures that we could examine to verify your claims? For instance, that confession alone leads to salvation and all the other claims you've made here?

I've never claimed that confession ALONE grants us salvation...careful how you answer my responses...I choose my words carefully because this is a complicated subject. I will remind you as well, that when the guards were torturing Christ and gambling in mockery to him, they didn't even confess once , and Christ still asked His Father to FORGIVE THEM...so I wonder if perhaps they got around to it later, or was Christ ignored and the guards were not forgiven and condemned to hell?

Perhaps they didn't get baptized in water either, but that's why we are baptized in fire now aren't we?

What other 'claims' did I make? Be specific. I'll backup every single one of them, but I need you to point them out to keep this a reasonable sized and coherent discussion and to insure I'm not answering straw men arguments instead.

Thanks, God Bless.

 

[Zecryphon]

I've never claimed that confession ALONE grants us salvation...careful how you answer my responses...I choose my words carefully because this is a complicated subject. I will remind you as well, that when the guards were torturing Christ and gambling in mockery to him, they didn't even confess once , and Christ still asked His Father to FORGIVE THEM...so I wonder if perhaps they got around to it later, or was Christ ignored and the guards were not forgiven and condemned to hell?

Perhaps they didn't get baptized in water either, but that's why we are baptized in fire now aren't we?

What other 'claims' did I make? Be specific. I'll backup every single one of them, but I need you to point them out to keep this a reasonable sized and coherent discussion and to insure I'm not answering straw men arguments instead.

Thanks, God Bless.

"I've never claimed that confession ALONE grants us salvation...careful how you answer my responses...I choose my words carefully because this is a complicated subject."

Really? Because it's pretty plain that's what you've said here. This is YOU speaking from post # 573:

"Doesn't scripture even teach what confession yields a person? (yup, salvation)"

Seems pretty clear to me that you believe that confession yields salvation.

"I will remind you as well, that when the guards were torturing Christ and gambling in mockery to him, they didn't even confess once , and Christ still asked His Father to FORGIVE THEM...so I wonder if perhaps they got around to it later, or was Christ ignored and the guards were not forgiven and condemned to hell?"

We have no way of knowing their eternal fate as the scriptures do not say what became of them.

"Perhaps they didn't get baptized in water either, but that's why we are baptized in fire now aren't we?"

As Jews they did get ritually cleansed in water. It is from this ritual cleansing of the Jews, that we get our practice of water baptism.

From the study notes of the Archaeological Study Bible NIV from Zondervan, page 1562:

Baptism was practiced by the Essenes at Qumran as a symbolic act by which one was "made holy by the waters of repentance"

Purification through immersion in ritual baths was required for all Jews in order to preserve that state of purity without which they could neither enter the temple nor participate in its services during major festivals. Numbers 9:10, John 11:55, Acts 21:24-27.

"What other 'claims' did I make? Be specific. I'll backup every single one of them, but I need you to point them out to keep this a reasonable sized and coherent discussion and to insure I'm not answering straw men arguments instead."

I just want scripture references for the following statements, no need to get all huffy about it. LOL

"Do you believe God is incapable or unwilling to do this for everyone when scripture teaches that ALL WILL BOW and CONFESS to God? Doesn't scripture even teach what confession yields a person? (yup, salvation) Doesn't scripture teach that there is one that will BAPTIZE with FIRE....(of which water was a symbol for) Also doesn't scripture teach that God will reconcile all things in heaven and earth (and under the earth) so that will be ALL IN ALL?"

 

[Zecryphon]

Warning, this web site is not politically correct for this forum. It's your choice. You have been warned. http://www.remnantofgod.org/666-CHAR.htm

Okay, so you give me a link to a site that slams the Catholic church. I've seen those sites before. I can't find anything on that page that has to do with my question. I've done a keyword search for "salvation" and "confession". Nothing was returned that would even be in the ballpark of answering my question.