"Where did you ever get that idea about those who believe all will be saved?"
From the people that promote that heresy.
"Then you haven't been listening."
Why do you assume that you are one of the people I am talking about?
"That's something you conjured up in your own mind."
Nope, it's a conclusion I've drawn from people who confess works-righteous faiths.
"You haven't been listening."
Again, you're assuming that you are the only person I've talked to about this, which is not true.
"You obviously haven't been reading the thread all the way through, nor have you paid attention, or listened."
Yeah, my heresy meter hit it's limit pages ago. LOL
"Then why bother posting in here?"
To counteract false teaching.
"First you say that people must pay for their sins in the lake of fire by being tormented eternally for it, and then you accuse me of saying Christ's sacrifice is of no effect because I believe they will have to go to the lake of fire to be burned for their sins.
"
No, I was commenting on LJ's interpretation of what James was saying, not what YOU were saying. You're directing my comments at you, when they were never about you or your statements. Why?
"You're right. And no, we don't have to do something to pay for our sins. And you're right again in saying we did nothing in our salvation process."
So if the price has been paid for our sins why do we need to go to the Lake of Fire then and be purified? Are we not made pure when we are saved by God?
"So you believe like me that it had nothing to do with your freewill when you were saved?
"We have no power to do it freely of ourselves.""
Right, I do not promote decision theology.
"Agreed."
That's refreshing. There's a few people here, in this forum, who deny being dual-natured.
"Yes, I agree with you there too. However, trials and testings are also to bring us face to face with the sin residing within that we would otherwise have not known. They cause a man to see who they are really trusting in, whether God or any other idol we have set up in our hearts. To bring us to humility before Him. So that we can then help someone else struggling with sin or in their faith. He will bring trials so that Holy Spirit can bring that certain sin or wrong attitude up before us so we can repent and be cleansed."
Alright.
"That is true too. But consider that in OT we find God using the stupidity and selfishness of other nations to bring judgment on Israel."
True.
"What do you think of this verse concerning the Church..
1Pe 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?"
I think Peter was giving telling the new Christians about being judged and/or persectued by others for being Christians and to not lose faith in God because of this persecution.
"Yes, we all deserve death.
How do you account for there being different punishments for different sins under the Law?"
Which law? There are the 10 Commandments and there are an additional 603 laws given to the nation of Israel. Which laws are you referring to?
"Not everyone who sinned was put to death. Most of the judgments under the Law were for restitution, to restore man to God or man to man."
Those were additional laws that God gave to the nation of Israel to help Israel function in a way that was pleasing to Him. There is nothing I can see, that would make those laws applicable to us, especially now that we are saved by Christ.
"Not for all men???
I thought it was.. while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Are not all men sinners? He died for us before we repented and called on His name."
He did die for sinners, but sinners need to admit they're sinners and repent of their sins. Not all sinners have done that. Christ makes it clear that repentance is part of salvation, now we can't repent by ourselves, but only through the power of the Holy Spirit can we recognize our status as sinners against God.
"Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."
Who is Paul speaking to here? Remember who the author is addressing with his writings. Also, keep in mind how the author's audience would have understood the message. Paul was speaking to the saved here, not the unsaved.
"2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 whereas God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and putting the word of reconciliation in us."
Again, remember who Paul was addressing here. Who is the "us" he is referring to? Is it Christians or the world at large?
"Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming to him and says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
John recognized Jesus as messiah, who would pay for the sins of the world with His death and resurrection. But the world needs to confess their sin before God. Jesus Himself told us to repent of our sins or that we too would perish. See Luke 13:1-5.
"You said this above.. If we had any role in our salvation, God would not be fully glorified, and it's all about the glorification of God."
True.
"Yet you just said The debt is paid for those who by the power of the Holy Spirit repent of their sin and call upon the name of Jesus to be saved.
So one minute we have no role in our salvation and the next we are saved by repenting and calling on His name (because it's only those who do so who have their debts paid). "
I don't see why you're confused. I said in one statement that we have no role in our salvation and in the next statement said we can only repent and call upon the name of Christ to be saved by the power of the Holy Spirit. It's not a contradiction. It is the power of the Holy Spirit that enables us to repent and call upon the name of Jesus, it is not our own power that does that.