There is no Hell!

[Zecryphon]

I'd like to thank Erwin personally for unsealing and unleashing the promotion of the false doctrine of Universalism on this forum - to further confuse and make people spiritually complacent about the necessity of Salvation during their life here.
Along with a spiritual complacency of any Christians that might actually feel the imperativness of witnessing Christ to people before they die.

We hardly have much to worry about when everybody just skates on in - or worse as James posted, WE ALL SUFFER IN FIRE till we pay for some sins a little while; even Christians!
SO WHAT IN THE WORLD IS THE POINT OF CHOOSING CHRIST IN THIS LIFE NOW when you can live in sin without the hasstle & persecution & get in anyways???
At least you enjoyed what you did if you have to pay any penalties. It at least makes it worth the pain. (no more pain than Christians had to go thru in not giving in to their natural sin desires!).
Pain is pain!

I wonder if people actually think what they're promoting in the big picture & if they think God could be that ignorant & unfair?

Is this the first time Universalism has shown up in this forum though? I seem to recall reading Universalist type statements prior the the 7-7-07 changes. I'm still waiting on that great Soul Harvest the Christians who were in favor of the changes were convinced was coming. Haven't seen any agnostic/atheist conversions to Christianity yet. Have you?

 

[Nadiine]

Is this the first time Universalism has shown up in this forum though? I seem to recall reading Universalist type statements prior the the 7-7-07 changes. I'm still waiting on that great Soul Harvest the Christians who were in favor of the changes were convinced was coming. Haven't seen any agnostic/atheist conversions to Christianity yet. Have you?

Universalism was only allowed in the liberal section - it wasn't allowed in the main Christian areas. I saw some posts yanked for it prior to 7/7/7 becuz I was involved in the threads (with liberals of course) who promoted them.

They were strict on that before, but of course they'de try to get away with saying as much as they could about it without it being a violation before.

But that's ok, for every post they slap up promoting it, I'll use God's word to easily dismiss it as the falsity that it is.
But I do thank Erwin for adding more confusion to the cauldron.

How are we going to see more soul conversions when they have more confusion now? & frankly, now that liberals are out spreading the word that you can love and live in moral SIN, & we all get saved anyways, WHY WOULD THEY NEED THAT SALVATION???
*hmmm. let me think.

 

[SoundCard]

I still haven't seen a satisfactory answer as to why God would need to send his Son Christ for us if all will be reconciled with hell fire as it were. (Just curious, but I read the claim that flesh will be burnt up in the lake of fire. Isn't flesh pretty much put to death upon our bodily death?)

 

[Tavita]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
"I AM one of those people you are talking about. This is why I 'assume' you are talking to me... especially when you are addressing my posts."

Our most recent exchange here was not initiated because I addressed one of your posts. It started because you addressed what I had said to LJ regarding what she thought James was saying in his posts. It had nothing to do with you.

"And I don't assume I am the only person you are talking to. However, it is important in conversations to listen to others so you don't misunderstand what they have to say. You want to take a stand against a 'heresy' but don't even know what that so called heresy entails cuz you don't want to listen."

The idea that all people, whether they are Christian or not go to the Lake of Fire to burn for their sin is one heresy in this thread and it is being promoted by James. There are others as well.

"Yes, and I am one of them."

We have a misunderstanding. There are two ways to take what I said. When I said there are "others as well", I was referring to there being more heresies in this thread than the one James is putting forth about people burning for their sins, regardless of whether they are a Christian or not. I didn't mean that "there were others as well" as in more people who agreed with what he was saying.

I'm sorry, Zecryphon, I just misunderstand you too much.

 

[Nadiine]

I still haven't seen a satisfactory answer as to why God would need to send his Son Christ for us if all will be reconciled with hell fire as it were. (Just curious, but I read the claim that flesh will be burnt up in the lake of fire. Isn't flesh pretty much put to death upon our bodily death?)

I'm not positive about the literal fleshly state... but the real kicker for me is the teachings about even Christians suffering the payment of (however many of) their sins!
Haven't we already suffered enough all thru our life by working to put our flesh to death and suppressing our sin nature?? I don't care how "holy" a Christian claims they are, they still suffer by having to bypass the sin temptations and desires every day...

Only to have to go thru MORE payment after death for not accomplishing perfection in & of ourselves? While the lost at least had a fun life in their sins.
IMO, these teachings are actually putting Christians as the underdogs in BOTH WORLDS to get hammered twice. As if losing this life wasn't enough, we pay in the next one too!

Somebody please pass me the Vodka & turn up the music!
(if this were the case, I WOULD see why the world would call us truly stupid sheep - I'd even have to agree with them).

 

[Zecryphon]

Universalism was only allowed in the liberal section - it wasn't allowed in the main Christian areas. I saw some posts yanked for it prior to 7/7/7 becuz I was involved in the threads (with liberals of course) who promoted them.

They were strict on that before, but of course they'de try to get away with saying as much as they could about it without it being a violation before.

But that's ok, for every post they slap up promoting it, I'll use God's word to easily dismiss it as the falsity that it is.
But I do thank Erwin for adding more confusion to the cauldron.

How are we going to see more soul conversions when they have more confusion now? & frankly, now that liberals are out spreading the word that you can love and live in moral SIN, & we all get saved anyways, WHY WOULD THEY NEED THAT SALVATION???
*hmmm. let me think.

"How are we going to see more soul conversions when they have more confusion now?"

If you want people to be saved, people must first recognize their sin. In order to do that, it's best to use the 10 Commandments. Everyone has broken at least one, and one is all you need to break in order to need a savior. Once people understand what the law is and how they have broken it, their need for a savior becomes apparent. This liberal teaching of Jesus saved us, but we still have to go to the lake of fire and burn for our sins, is just illogical. Either Jesus saved you from the lake of fire or He didn't.

 

[spiritlead]

I still haven't seen a satisfactory answer as to why God would need to send his Son Christ for us if all will be reconciled with hell fire as it were. (Just curious, but I read the claim that flesh will be burnt up in the lake of fire. Isn't flesh pretty much put to death upon our bodily death?)

Ecclesiastes 12:7 amplified

7Then shall the dust [out of which God made man's body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it.

Our body returns to dust

Our soul[sinful nature] andspirit goes to the Bema seat[judgement seat of Christ] if a beleiver or the great white throne if a non-beleiver

But the lake of fire has to be spiritual, not literal fire, because our soul and spirit is spiritual

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm sorry, Zecryphon, I just misunderstand you too much.

Looking at the statement that was misunderstood, you could easily come up with either interpretation. No biggie.

 

[Zecryphon]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 amplified

7Then shall the dust [out of which God made man's body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it.

Our body returns to dust

Our soul[sinful nature] andspirit goes to the Bema seat[judgement seat of Christ] if a beleiver or the great white throne if a non-beleiver

But the lake of fire has to be spiritual, not literal fire, because our soul and spirit is spiritual

"But the lake of fire has to be spiritual, not literal fire, because our soul and spirit is spiritual."

How does the material or whatever you want to call it of our soul dictate what kind of fire will be found in the lake of fire? Just because spirits enter there, does not mean that the fire that burns there will be spiritual. It could be a completely different type of fire that God has prepared, that we don't know about. I don't believe God is limited by our understanding of fire and therefore has to work with the types of fire we are familiar with.

 

[Nadiine]

Ecclesiastes 12:7 amplified

7Then shall the dust [out of which God made man's body] return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it.

Our body returns to dust

Our soul[sinful nature] andspirit goes to the Bema seat[judgement seat of Christ] if a beleiver or the great white throne if a non-beleiver

But the lake of fire has to be spiritual, not literal fire, because our soul and spirit is spiritual

No it DOESN'T "have" to be spiritual fire. Again, you limit God to YOUR understanding.

I again note the Burning Bush in Exodus. That was a literal, Real, tangible bush. The FIRE on it isn't said to be spiritual OR literal - the fire didn't consume or burn up the bush whatsoever.

So we cannot limit God by our own limitations - He CAN create miracles and do things as He pleases.
Whether the fire in the Lake of fire is literal or not, there is "SMOKE" rising from it eternally...
Whatever's going on there, it isn't pleasant and it's nowhere I want to be for 2 seconds, let alone an eternity.

 

[LJSGM]

Fire is a symbol of destruction in the case of gehenna fire, it doesn't have to be "physical or spiritual" it just has to destroy whatever it's burning.

 

[james415]

Fire is a symbol of destruction in the case of gehenna fire, it doesn't have to be "physical or spiritual" it just has to destroy whatever it's burning.

Yes, like the self-righteousness of Babylon that spreads to everyone and eventually destroys all of the selfrighteous nature of our flesh (the first Adam). From out of the fire will emerge the righteous one who is Christ in us (the last Adam).

God appointed and ordained the Babylonians to judge and punish. (Hab 1:12) O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

The Babylonians are self-righteous. (Hab 1:7) They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor.

And their self-righteousness will spread to all. (Hab 2:16) You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon was a gold cup in the LORD's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad.

Can you see the lake of fire burning in our world today?

 

[Ben12]

Yes, like the self-righteousness of Babylon that spreads to everyone and eventually destroys all of the selfrighteous nature of our flesh (the first Adam). From out of the fire will emerge the righteous one who is Christ in us (the last Adam).

God appointed and ordained the Babylonians to judge and punish. (Hab 1:12) O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

The Babylonians are self-righteous. (Hab 1:7) They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor.

And their self-righteousness will spread to all. (Hab 2:16) You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon was a gold cup in the LORD's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad.

Can you see the lake of fire burning in our world today?

I was wait for that; wow.

 

[LJSGM]

Yes, like the self-righteousness of Babylon that spreads to everyone and eventually destroys all of the selfrighteous nature of our flesh (the first Adam). From out of the fire will emerge the righteous one who is Christ in us (the last Adam).

God appointed and ordained the Babylonians to judge and punish. (Hab 1:12) O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

The Babylonians are self-righteous. (Hab 1:7) They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor.

And their self-righteousness will spread to all. (Hab 2:16) You will be filled with shame instead of glory. Now it is your turn! Drink and be exposed! The cup from the LORD's right hand is coming around to you, and disgrace will cover your glory.

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon was a gold cup in the LORD's hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine; therefore they have now gone mad.

Can you see the lake of fire burning in our world today?

Yes, but it doesn't say it burns up self-righteousness, that's something that you've added. It says that men, along with satan and his angels will be thrown into the lake of fire, not just the "evil" part of them.

I asked before, if God has the power to make all men believers now, then why are not all men believers? Why are some going to be thrown in the lake of fire where there will be torment?

 

[Nadiine]

Yes, but it doesn't say it burns up self-righteousness, that's something that you've added. It says that men, along with satan and his angels will be thrown into the lake of fire, not just the "evil" part of them.

Exactly . This is what keeps being done by people here who support this Universalism! THEY KEEP READING THINGS INTO THE PASSAGES. Things that aren't even there & are out of context.

Here's proof to support your claim:

Hebrews 9:22
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.​

John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!​

Heb 10:
3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.​

4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.​

8After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law),
9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time..,​

Leviticus 17:11
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'​

Follow with me here - - IF Christ's shed blood covers over the LOST as well, THEN THERE SHOULD BE NO PUNISHMENT OR CONDEMNATION FOR THE LOST WHATSOEVER as it says there will be!
The Saints go to the Bema Seat (1 Cor. 3) where our WORKS are tried by fire. NOT US. We're already washed & cleansed of our sins becuz we have accepted His Salvation over us.
IF the lost are atoned for by Jesus' sacrifice, THEY SHOULD SEE NO PUNISHMENT FOR ANY OF THEIR SINS THAT ARE REMOVED ALREADY LIKE OURS ARE (thru salvation).!!​

It makes the bible a self-refuting MESS to claim people get back out or there's no punishment for unpaid sin!.​

GOD says that SIN ISN'T REMOVED UNTIL IT HAS A BLOOD SACRIFICE TO ATONE FOR IT. That means, that sin/evil doesn't go away on its own. Those who reject Christ's sacrifice for their atonement, STAY IN THEIR SIN AND ETERNALLY SUFFER THE PENALTY.
Sin doesn't just "cease to exist". His blood and His blood alone REMOVES IT entirely. That is what allows believers (who have His pardon) to enter eternal life thru the Son.

Those who refuse that blood covering, DIE IN THEIR SINS and have to be contained somewhere eternally (lake of fire) so that the evil cannot get back out to corrupt what God has restored (the New heaven & earth). IF God let that sin escape back out, we'd have another world like we have today; sin naturally corrupts & brings curse & death & suffering.

Lake of fire is the containment of sin that continues to exist. The Born again Believers have theirs REMOVED by God willingly.
Jesus won't die 2 times for the lost to get salvation after they die. He died ONCE and once only. We accept His payment NOW, or we eternally stay in them.

 

[james415]

I was wait for that; wow.

You see and understand because your Father is the Spiritual one who is unseen. But the literal one who is seen continues to deceive many.

 

[james415]

Yes, but it doesn't say it burns up self-righteousness, that's something that you've added. It says that men, along with satan and his angels will be thrown into the lake of fire, not just the "evil" part of them.

I asked before, if God has the power to make all men believers now, then why are not all men believers? Why are some going to be thrown in the lake of fire where there will be torment?

Hi LJSGM,
Man IS thrown into the lake of fire, but it is the man of flesh, not the man of Spirit. God formed man from the dust of the earth then gave him life by breathing into his nostrils. The dust does not know the breath and thinks he lives of his own will. So God separates the two. The self-righteous Dust to His left and the righteous breath to the right. The dust goes back to the earth and the breath is raised to heaven. You can see this same separation message throughout the bible. The two trees, the two temples, the two nations, the two brothers, the two wives, first Adam and Last Adam, slave and free, etc, etc.

 

[Nadiine]

the bottom line is this, PEOPLE ARE NOT ONLY IGNORING, BUT REFUTING CLEARLY WRITTEN SCRIPTURES on hell and eternal condemnation -

When the Bible's clearly written truths are ignored, the person is in REBELLION to the truth God's word brings. At this point, they will not see anything shown to them from scripture.

This is why after it's shown, I'm inclined to shake the dust from my sandals of these rebellious people that ignore God's words.

This isn't an issue of "hidden" truths or symbolisms people claim happen in Revelation... that causes people not to fully grasp this doctrine and factual information. This is written outright and plainly.

And this is why I say, it doesn't matter HOW clear God is in scripture, people will find ways to refute & deny it any way they can so they can create the gods they prefer and feel fuzzy about. (NOTICE IT'S ALWAYS WHAT BENEFITS THEM AND PEOPLE - SHOWERING US WITH BLESSINGS & GOODIES becuz we're just such wonderful & lovely people; so good natured & loveable).

MAKING DOCTRINE FOR YOURSELF DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE (for you or anybody else). God's word cannot be broken, it's written and it stands.

 

[SoundCard]

MAKING DOCTRINE FOR YOURSELF DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE (for you or anybody else). God's word cannot be broken, it's written and it stands.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[GuardianShua]

Ain't that the truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadiine
MAKING DOCTRINE FOR YOURSELF DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE (for you or anybody else). God's word cannot be broken, it's written and it stands.

[/QUOTE] The word ""HELL"" is a INTERPRETATION, not a TRANSLATION. The K.J.V. also known as the Masonic bible, because it was written by Masons for Masons; it also says that God, is evil and that he does evil. Everyone here needs to pay attention to those words, INTERPRETATION and TRANSLATION.