Theory on the origin of evil

[trophy33]

I agree with you in that we must be born of God to inherit incorruptibility. We will never "inherit the nature of God" though because we are and always will be created entities.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
J 3:6

"...in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
R 8:4

And yes, you raise a good point about the difference between the potential to corruptibility and having partaken in that corruptibility. There are angels, which are created entities subject to corruptibly who have not transgressed.

Categorically speaking though you can't say that created entities who do not become redeemed are "nothing" because they are subtenant.

Not that they are nothing, but their nature is just a nature of a creation of nothing. Redemption is more a theological term related to punishment/forgiveness, I am talking more about switching the nature to become "the sons of God".

 

[GodsGrace101]

It wasn't the "tree of good and evil" it was the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

Also, yes God declared everything "good" but He never said it was perfect - as in incorruptible. Yet it did remain uncorrupted until Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

So yes, evil existed prior to the fall, yet does not answer the question of where it came from.

Good on all you've said, but I do believe that God meant perfect when He declared something good.

I don't think it needs to be checked....

 

[The Righterzpen]

No, everything in the post is actually biblical. Every part of the post is provable from the Bible easily. Its also coherent and logical.

Categorically I agree with you (as far as my own understanding of what your saying) LOL (somewhat of an oxymoron - yeah I know). But it might be useful to define what you mean by "perfect".

 

[The Righterzpen]

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
J 3:6

"...in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
R 8:4

Not that they are nothing, but their nature is just a nature of a creation of nothing. Redemption is more a theological term related to punishment/forgiveness, I am talking more about switching the nature to become "the sons of God".

I get the "switching nature to become sons of God"; not sure I follow you on the "nature of the creation of nothing" because those who reap the consequence of their sin still exist in the new heavens and the new earth. They are in the lake of fire, but they exist.

 

[GodsGrace101]

It wasn't the "tree of good and evil" it was the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil".

Also, yes God declared everything "good" but He never said it was perfect - as in incorruptible. Yet it did remain uncorrupted until Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

So yes, evil existed prior to the fall, yet does not answer the question of where it came from.

I checked...
Good does not mean perfect:

Definition
pleasant, agreeable, good

 

[The Righterzpen]

Good on all you've said, but I do believe that God meant perfect when He declared something good.

I don't think it needs to be checked....

Define "perfect". The Hebrew word "good" there actually means "pleasing". God was pleased with what He'd done.

 

[trophy33]

But it might be useful to define what you mean by "perfect".

There are two possible ways to define it:
a) good/perfect in the meaning that it serves its purpose in the best possible way (a perfect, table, a perfect creation, a perfect car...)

b) that its metaphysically unlimited and has no possible source for any future evil, no shadow in any direction or use

I use the b) meaning.

 

[The Righterzpen]

There are two possible ways to define it:
a) good/perfect in the meaning that it serves its purpose in the best possible way (a perfect, table, a perfect creation, a perfect car...)

b) that its metaphysically unlimited and has no possible source for any future evil, no shadow in any direction or use

I use the b) meaning.

Agree with you on the "no possible source for any future evil, or shadow in any direction or use" - not sure on the "metaphysically unlimited". What do you mean by that?

 

[GodsGrace101]

No, everything in the post is actually biblical. Every part of the post is provable from the Bible easily. Its also coherent and logical.

OK. But the gnostics believed that the body was separate from the spirit...I know that it is but the way you said it....

 

[friend of]

Evil, being the opposite of God, came about as the result of God's creative action. Yet evil remains a created "thing" because it is a reaction to God's action, not the opposite of the totality of God as an entity. (I.E. Evil is not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal or immortal.) We know this because evil does not exist in the recreated heavens and earth.

I do not believe Evil was created at the moment of creation though. There needs first to exist an agent or vessel for Evil to be carried out (evil as defined as anything that goes against the Will of God). In The Beginning... there was no agent to carry out the anti-will of God.

 

[Tone]

What would have been the knowledge of good and evil that God possessed before He created anything? Maybe the answer to that would answer the question of why He's subject / subjected Himself to physics - or at least this aspect of physics.

Who says that the Creator possessed that tree? Some believe that tree was planted by the enemy...like the tares of today.

 

[trophy33]

Agree with you on the "no possible source for any future evil, or shadow in any direction or use" - not sure on the "metaphysically unlimited". What do you mean by that?

"Evil may be taken metaphysically, physically and morally. Metaphysical evil consists in mere imperfection, physical evil in suffering, and moral evil in sin."
G.W. Leibniz, Essays on the Justice of God, the freedom of man and the origin of evil

Something in this sense

 

[The Righterzpen]

@GodsGrace101

Example - you give your kid $10. to go by a burger at the mall. The $10. gets stolen. Evil has occurred as a result of your action (giving the kid $10.) But you are not at fault for the $10. getting stolen.

And here's where I question - how does God's knowledge that evil would come into existence when He created something make Him responsible for the result of something He performed with perfect intentions?

This is how I don't see how the theory I've presented makes God responsible for evil?

Now His plan is perfect, in that He devised a means of ultimately solving the problem of evil. Now if God didn't have a perfect plan, judicially speaking He would be responsible for evil because what would be the point in creating something that was fundamentally unredeemable. God being practical as well as loving, I don't see that He would have ever created a universe that He knew He was just going to destroy in the end.

That would have made God evil!

 

[Tone]

But we never inherit the perfect nature of God.
We still can sin.
We won't be perfect till we get to heaven.
Jesus was perfect.

Maybe that's why we are going through this whole redemptive process...maybe it was necessary for becoming one with the "representation of His being".

Hebrews 1:3
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

*Some things were not sustaining "all things"...

 

[The Righterzpen]

Who says that the Creator possessed that tree? Some believe that tree was planted by the enemy...like the tares of today.

Possessed the tree or possessed the knowledge? God is omniscient; so by definition of course He possessed the knowledge of good and evil before he created anything.

 

[Tree of Life]

Before God came along and decided to put His creation in this "spot", what was already here was a perpetually destructive evil existence. The "personification" or the spirit of that evil is what the Scripture calls Satan. Where that evil came from - I would like to know myself! Is Satan a fallen angel? I know churches teach that; I haven't found enough in Scriptures to be convinced that is actually true though. Reason would have it that if this evil predated the creation it's-self than the origins of evil could not be of some fallen angel God had made. Since nothing God would create was even in existence yet. Any ways; God was greater than that evil though, so He was able to put in that evil's existence a creation that the perpetually destructive evil could not pollute. That is until Adam sinned.

This is the ancient heresy of Manichaeism. It taught that there are two eternal forces - one good and one evil. It is not a biblical belief.

 

[The Righterzpen]

"Evil may be taken metaphysically, physically and morally. Metaphysical evil consists in mere imperfection, physical evil in suffering, and moral evil in sin."
G.W. Leibniz, Essays on the Justice of God, the freedom of man and the origin of evil

Something in this sense

So metaphysically unlimited would basically mean incorruptible by definition comparison.

 

[The Righterzpen]

This is the ancient heresy of Manichaeism. It taught that there are two eternal forces - one good and one evil. It is not a biblical belief.

You didn't read the theory. That's not what it says.

 

[trophy33]

So metaphysically unlimited would basically mean incorruptible by definition comparison.

What do you mean by incorruptible?

 

[Tree of Life]

You didn't read the theory. That's not what it says.

It sounded like evil preexists creation in your view. Is this not what you said?