Theological Questions for Day-Age Creationists

[Aman777]

What do "evening" and "morning" mean without a sun?

There is no Biblical reason to exclude animal death before Adam.

Morning is the beginning and evening is the end of a "period of time" or Yowm. Each of God's Days are some 4.5 Billion years in man's time.

Death (darkness) was upon Everything God brought into physical form in the beginning. Gen 1:2 Anything apart from God is evil, since ONLY God is good.

Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

[SkyWriting]

What do "evening" and "morning" mean without a sun?

God could provide light more directly rather than rely on a star for illumination. It suggests that creation week was regarding a more spiritual place and not our current planet becasue "day and night" is only a reality for one single spot on the globe.

 

[SkyWriting]

There is no Biblical reason to exclude animal death before Adam.

Only Adam had the Spirit of Life in him.....so only he could die, in the spiritual sense.

 

[Andy centek]

I'm currently ambiguous on how the interpretation of Gen. 1 ought to be interpreted. My church leans more towards young earth creationism, but I am having trouble believing certain aspects of it as I also do with Old Earth Creationism.
I'm looking for theological answers not so much scientific ones. This isn't hostile at all, I just want to understand you guys better.
I just wanted to ask some of my most heavy questions:

1. I understand with the day age theory, each "day" supposedly represents an age, and that the word "yom" has multiple meanings. My trouble comes when it says "there was evening and there was the morning: the first day/day one." It seems like the author is defining the word yom as some sort of daylight cycle. How would a day age theorist handle this?

2. Death before sin, and probably disease before sin. How can it be that misery could have existed before Adam and Eve sinned?

3. What do you believe about the Flood? Do you believe it was a universal Flood? Or do you believe it was a local Flood, and how can you justify it Scripturally?

 

[Andy centek]

Turtlehugger:

I give here a brief writing to help you. To go into depth would require a large writing. I pray this helps You.
Turtlehugger:

In response to your question of the creation of Genesis 1 I give the following.

Eph_3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Co 15:46-49 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

As is the earthy
Such are they also that are earthy

And as is the heavenly
Such are they also that are heavenly

And as we have borne the image of the earthy
We shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

A big problem is the English language, it is not very definite. The word Earth is the planet Earth. The word earth, can be any portion, or a selected portion of the Earth. This has to be considered when reading the Bible scriptures. The use of the proper noun Earth makes a huge difference in ones thinking.

What the above is showing, in a small way, is that the creation was spiritual and not the literal creation of the Earth. It was the creation of the earth, the land which would eventually be Israel's.

Rom_8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

Notice the adjectives in the above. They are like a woman giving birth. Indeed, Jerusalem is The Woman which birth was to be given to later.

The really big problem when reading Genesis, and the other Books, is the use of figures of speech. This is where a literal thing is used to describe something that we otherwise could not relate to with our limited minds.

This would take a very large book to explain deeply. I am working on one now.

May the Holy Spirit be given to You to help in your endeavor.

Andy Centek











Andy Centek

 

[Andy centek]

Sorry I can't help you more--I think day-age theories are the bunk. In fact, I think that any attempt to reconcile the conclusions of science with the creation account in Gen 1 is misguided. In my opinion, the Gen 1 creation account was cast into a seven day format by its author(s) for literary and theological reasons which had nothing to do with the cosmological discoveries to be made three millennia in the future.

 

[Andy centek]

speedwell:

Here are some note from E.W.Bullinger on on Genesis 1.

Genesis = Greek = generation, creation. For its being complementary to the Apocalypse.
The world that then was: 2 Peter 3:5-6.

As for My comments. Genesis is not the story of the creation of this Planet Earth. Genesis is the story of the creation of what would eventually become Israel. It is not a literal creation, it is a spiritual creation.

Eph 3:8-12 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.

In Eph 3:9 the word, world, according to Strong's interpretation is Israel. Therefore, since the beginning of Israel; not the world. This is further backed up by the following verses.

Mark 10:6-8 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

John_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in Him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of His own: for He is a liar, and the father of it.

There is much more that shows that Genesis 1 is not the creation of Planet Earth, but rather of what was to become, the Nation of Israel. Science is more correct than most Bible readers! Much more could be shown, but I stop here for now.

Andy Centek

 

[Radagast]

1. I understand with the day age theory, each "day" supposedly represents an age, and that the word "yom" has multiple meanings. My trouble comes when it says "there was evening and there was the morning: the first day/day one." It seems like the author is defining the word yom as some sort of daylight cycle. How would a day age theorist handle this?

It's far from clear what "evening" and "morning" mean here, especially before the sun is created.

2. Death before sin, and probably disease before sin. How can it be that misery could have existed before Adam and Eve sinned?

Nothing in Genesis rules out animal or plant death before the Fall.

3. What do you believe about the Flood? Do you believe it was a universal Flood? Or do you believe it was a local Flood, and how can you justify it Scripturally?

Nothing in Genesis requires that Australia was flooded.

 

[omega2xx]

speedwell:

Here are some note from E.W.Bullinger on on Genesis 1.

Genesis = Greek = generation, creation. For its being complementary to the Apocalypse.
The world that then was: 2 Peter 3:5-6.

As for My comments. Genesis is not the story of the creation of this Planet Earth. Genesis is the story of the creation of what would eventually become Israel. It is not a literal creation, it is a spiritual creation.

Eph 3:8-12 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.

In Eph 3:9 the word, world, according to Strong's interpretation is Israel. Therefore, since the beginning of Israel; not the world. This is further backed up by the following verses.

Mark 10:6-8 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they two shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

John_8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in Him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of His own: for He is a liar, and the father of it.

There is much more that shows that Genesis 1 is not the creation of Planet Earth, but rather of what was to become, the Nation of Israel. Science is more correct than most Bible readers! Much more could be shown, but I stop here for now.

Andy Centek

Genesis 1 is about the creation of the whole universe, not what Israel was to become, and it is about a literal creation. It shows us the omnipotence and the love of God.

With an omnipotent God,l there is no reason not to consider it literal.

The only science in the Bible is "after their kind," and that is proved thousands of time ever day. It also refutes evolution which is not based on science.

 

[omega2xx]

It's far from clear what "evening" and "morning" mean here, especially before the sun is created.

"There was evening and there was morning," makes it perfectly clear even to cave men. Also, every time day is use with a number, it refers to a 24 hour day as we know it today.

Nothing in Genesis rules out animal or plant death before the Fall.

Not specifically ,but logically it does. It is likely that Satan did not wait long to temp Eve and since everything God created was very good, it is unlikely any of them died before the fall.

Nothing in Genesis requires that Australia was flooded.

Genesis 7:19-20 does

 

[Radagast]

"There was evening and there was morning," makes it perfectly clear even to cave men.

Can you explain to this cave man what "evening" means with no sun?

Not specifically ,but logically it does. It is likely that Satan did not wait long to temp Eve and since everything God created was very good, it is unlikely any of them died before the fall.

Well, that's all your theory. Me, I don't think animal death is bad. And I'm pretty sure lions were created to eat meat.

Genesis 7:19-20 does

No, that doesn't mention Australia. And "world" need not mean "planet."

 

[Andy centek]

Can you explain to this cave man what "evening" means with no sun?



Well, that's all your theory. Me, I don't think animal death is bad. And I'm pretty sure lions were created to eat meat.



No, that doesn't mention Australia. And "world" need not mean "planet."

 

[Andy centek]

Omega2xx :

You ask me if I can explain to a cave man what day and evening is. Cave man, I will try.

Gen_1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This statement in Genesis 1:5 hold the key to those who dig deep into the Bible scriptures. You cannot get answers by simply read A VERSE and assuming your answer is correct.
I now begin to explain what I meant.

Gen_1:5 And God called the light Day

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them saying
I am the light of the world
He that follows Me shall not walk in darkness
But shall have the light of life

John 9:4-5 I must work the works of Him that sent Me
While it is day
The night comes when no man can work (spiritually)

As long as I am in the world
I am the light of the world

John 12:44-50 Jesus cried and said
He that believes on Me
Believes not on Me
But on Him that sent Me

And he that sees Me
Sees Him that sent Me

I am come a light into the world
That whosoever believes on Me should not abide in darkness

And if any man hear my words
And believe not
I judge Him not
For I came not to judge the world
But to save the world

He that rejects Me
And receives not My words
Has One that judges him

The word that I have spoken
The same shall judge him in the last day

For I have not spoken of Myself
But the Father which sent Me
He gave Me a commandment
What I should say and what I should speak

And I know that His commandment is life everlasting
Whatsoever I speak therefore
Even as the Father said unto Me so I speak

Rom_13:12 The night is far spent

The day is at hand
Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness
And let us put on the armor of light

1Co_4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come
Who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness
And will make manifest the counsels of the hearts
And then shall every man have praise of God

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not
Least the light of the glorious gospel of Christ
Who is the image of God should shine unto them

2Co_4:6 For God
Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Eph_5:8 For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord walk as children of light

The big problem comes from people always desiring to read the Bible scriptures like an ordinary book. Scriptures do not read that way as a rule. Often times one must focus on the subject and the search that subject; such as I did above.

Gen 1:3-4 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

I hope this helps you our of your cave into His glorious light of knowledge. Also any others that may read this.

I give thanks to My Lord and My God for His Holy Spirit's guidance.

Andy Centek

 

[Aman777]

TurtleHugger said: ↑
I'm currently ambiguous on how the interpretation of Gen. 1 ought to be interpreted. My church leans more towards young earth creationism, but I am having trouble believing certain aspects of it as I also do with Old Earth Creationism.
I'm looking for theological answers not so much scientific ones. This isn't hostile at all, I just want to understand you guys better.
I just wanted to ask some of my most heavy questions:

1. I understand with the day age theory, each "day" supposedly represents an age, and that the word "yom" has multiple meanings. My trouble comes when it says "there was evening and there was the morning: the first day/day one." It seems like the author is defining the word yom as some sort of daylight cycle. How would a day age theorist handle this?

Each of God's Days/Ages is Billions of years in man's time. God has but 7 Days/Ages and the end of the present 6th Day is Future to 2018. That's because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image, which is in Christ Spiritually on this Day of Salvation. We live today at Gen 1:27 and won't fulfill the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 until after Jesus returns.

2. Death before sin, and probably disease before sin. How can it be that misery could have existed before Adam and Eve sinned?

Creation had darkness/death upon it since it was apart from God. To be apart from God is death. Death did not come to mankind until Adam sinned.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Innocent animals don't sin since they are not subject to the Law. They die because they were made with the contaminated air (heaven) dust (ground without form) and water which God the Trinity created in the beginning. Gen 1:1-2

3. What do you believe about the Flood? Do you believe it was a universal Flood? Or do you believe it was a local Flood, and how can you justify it Scripturally?

The 450 ft Ark sank in Lake Van, Turkey some 11k years ago. History records this event because Human farming on planet Earth, along with every other trait of modern Humans (descendants of Adam), was demonstrated FIRST in the mountains of Ararat. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

After 40 days and nights (24 hours) of rain, Adam's firmament filled with water and sank, releasing the Ark into our world of people who descended from the common ancestor of Apes. The ToE is FALSE since it does not agree with History. That is God's Truth Scripturally. Amen?

 

[Andy centek]

It's far from clear what "evening" and "morning" mean here, especially before the sun is created.



Nothing in Genesis rules out animal or plant death before the Fall.



Nothing in Genesis requires that Australia was flooded.

 

[Andy centek]

Turlthhugger:

I post this in response to Omega2xx. I think this will be a big help to you when you read it and think on it a little.

Andy Centek

Omega2xx :

You ask me if I can explain to a cave man what day and evening is. Cave man, I will try.

Gen_1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This statement in Genesis 1:5 hold the key to those who dig deep into the Bible scriptures. You cannot get answers by simply read A VERSE and assuming your answer is correct.

I now begin to explain what I meant.

Gen_1:5 And God called the light Day

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them saying
I am the light of the world
He that follows Me shall not walk in darkness
But shall have the light of lif

John 9:4-5 I must work the works of Him that sent Me
While it is day
The night comes when no man can work (spiritually)

As long as I am in the world
I am the light of the world

John 12:44-50 Jesus cried and said
He that believes on Me
Believes not on Me
But on Him that sent Me

And he that sees Me
Sees Him that sent Me

I am come a light into the world
That whosoever believes on Me should not abide in darkness

And if any man hear my words
And believe not
I judge Him not
For I came not to judge the world
But to save the world

He that rejects Me
And receives not My words
Has One that judges him

The word that I have spoken
The same shall judge him in the last day

For I have not spoken of Myself
But the Father which sent Me
He gave Me a commandment
What I should say and what I should speak

And I know that His commandment is life everlasting
Whatsoever I speak therefore
Even as the Father said unto Me so I speak

Rom_13:12 The night is far spent
The day is at hand
Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness
And let us put on the armor of light

1Co_4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come
Who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness
And will make manifest the counsels of the hearts
And then shall every man have praise of God

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not
Least the light of the glorious gospel of Christ
Who is the image of God should shine unto them

2Co_4:6 For God
Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Eph_5:8 For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord walk as children of light

The big problem comes from people always desiring to read the Bible scriptures like an ordinary book. Scriptures do not read that way as a rule. Often times one must focus on the subject and the search that subject; such as I did above.

Gen 1:3-4 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

I hope this helps you our of your cave into His glorious light of knowledge. Also any others that may read this.

I give thanks to My Lord and My God for His Holy Spirit's guidance.

Andy Centek

 

[omega2xx]

Can you explain to this cave man what "evening" means with no sun?



Well, that's all your theory. Me, I don't think animal death is bad. And I'm pretty sure lions were created to eat meat.



No, that doesn't mention Australia. And "world" need not mean "planet."

Quibbler noted.

 

[Andy centek]

Quibbler noted.

Radagast:

Evening and morning are exactly that, evening and morning. Where does it say there was no Sun in Genesis 1? It also does not say that the Sun was created in Genesis 1.
However, evening and morning, when used in some senses, means a beginning and an end.

Andy Centek

 

[omega2xx]

Radagast:

Evening and morning are exactly that, evening and morning. Where does it say there was no Sun in Genesis 1? It also does not say that the Sun was created in Genesis 1.
However, evening and morning, when used in some senses, means a beginning and an end.

Andy Centek

The greater light of Gen 1:16 is the sun. The lesser light is the moon.

 

[Colter]

I'm currently ambiguous on how the interpretation of Gen. 1 ought to be interpreted. My church leans more towards young earth creationism, but I am having trouble believing certain aspects of it as I also do with Old Earth Creationism.
I'm looking for theological answers not so much scientific ones. This isn't hostile at all, I just want to understand you guys better.
I just wanted to ask some of my most heavy questions:

1. I understand with the day age theory, each "day" supposedly represents an age, and that the word "yom" has multiple meanings. My trouble comes when it says "there was evening and there was the morning: the first day/day one." It seems like the author is defining the word yom as some sort of daylight cycle. How would a day age theorist handle this?

2. Death before sin, and probably disease before sin. How can it be that misery could have existed before Adam and Eve sinned?

3. What do you believe about the Flood? Do you believe it was a universal Flood? Or do you believe it was a local Flood, and how can you justify it Scripturally?

Holy men wrote the scriptures, they were intended for spiritual instruction not accurate history.