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the wrath of God

Der Alte

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You are doing the same things that you accuse me of . I gave two scripture’s that go against your narrative so you must explain them away , I don’t find scripture that directly say what you said you came to that conclusion by what you believe scripture is teaching. These verses were not out of context but they don’t fit what you think about God , no different than when I quote “ It’s God will that none parish “ it’s a straight forward verse but because it goes against your beliefs you have explain it away by making up two wills of God because you think it can’t be true.
False! Neither of the verses which you posted say that all mankind will do God's will or that God Gets all that He desires.
I was not even looking for the below passage, Jer 13:11-14, when I stumbled on it. Way back when I first heard the Calvinist proof text about the leopard not being able to change his spots I wanted to see the context. It was in the same chapter.
Is 46:10 “ all my council, it shall be confirmed and all
my desire shall I do
Ps 115:3 “ our God is in the heavens all that he desires, he will do.
"all my desire shall I [God] do."
"all that he desires, he [God] will do"
Can you really not see the difference? I will repeat a passage where God clearly stated what God desired but the people did not do it.

Jeremiah 13:11-14
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
God's desire was that the whole house of Israel and Judah cling to him like a belt but they would not obey.
 
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setst777

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Both passages say God will do what he desires how do you explain that away?

Yes, God will do what he desires (pleases) in every situation that occurs in Heaven and earth, but God did not cause every situation that God responds to, because God made his creatures with free will. God gives us a choice. When a person chooses wickedness over salvation, that is not God's desire.

If you say that God gets what he desires when people rape, kill, rob, molest, and abuse each other because he created them to be that way, then you are saying God is not as loving as you profess him to be.

God can intervene in any situation as he pleases, not because he created everything to act out what he desires; rather, God intervenes and responds to our free will choices in every situation just as he pleases.

God does not get everything he desires.

For instance, God desires the wicked to listen to him, repent, and be saved, but many refuse to listen. And because they refuse to listen, God will respond to them just as he pleases - in condemnation

Romans 10:21
(WEB) 21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

Ezekiel 3:7 (WEB) [God says]: But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate.

Luke 13:34 (WEB) “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Because people sin, and sin brings death, God's desire is to offer mankind salvation - repentance onto life. But despite God's desire, many refuse.

When a wicked person refuses His grace, God responds just as he pleases by denying them repentance onto life, and with condemnation.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (WEB) They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie; 12 and so, all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
  • God does what he please in punishing the wicked because many refuse to listen to Him.
  • It was not God's desire to condemn them, but rather, God's desire is that they repent and be saved.
God's desire was that they would listen and repent.

For instance, it pleased God to create mankind in His image, but it is not God's desire that people rape, rob, kill, and murder each other.

God does not get what he desires when people live in sin, or when they refuse His grace. That is not God's desire for us. But God will respond just as he pleases to the wicked - in condemnation.

Does God take pleasure or joy in condemning the wicked? Of course not, but God does what he pleases (his choice) in punishing the wicked. And God is righteous in condemning the wicked.

Ezekiel 18:23 (WEB) 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

Ezekiel 33:11
(WEB) 11 Tell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die oh house of Israel?”’

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (WEB) They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie; 12 and so, all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

God does what he pleases, and it is God's good pleasure, in extending His grace by the Gospel to those who repent and believe in His Son (John 3:16; John 6:39-40), but many refuse God's grace, which is against what God desires for us.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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Yes, God will do what he desires (pleases) in every situation that occurs in Heaven and earth, but God did not cause every situation that God responds to, because God made his creatures with free will. God gives us a choice. When a person chooses wickedness over salvation, that is not God's desire.

If you say that God gets what he desires when people rape, kill, rob, molest, and abuse each other because he created them to be that way, then you are saying God is not as loving as you profess him to be.

God can intervene in any situation as he pleases, not because he created everything to act out what he desires; rather, God intervenes and responds to our free will choices in every situation just as he pleases.

God does not get everything he desires.

For instance, God desires the wicked to listen to him, repent, and be saved, but many refuse to listen. And because they refuse to listen, God will respond to them just as he pleases - in condemnation

Romans 10:21
(WEB) 21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

Ezekiel 3:7 (WEB) [God says]: But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate.

Luke 13:34 (WEB) “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Because people sin, and sin brings death, God's desire is to offer mankind salvation - repentance onto life. But despite God's desire, many refuse.

When a wicked person refuses His grace, God responds just as he pleases by denying them repentance onto life, and with condemnation.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (WEB) They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie; 12 and so, all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
  • God does what he please in punishing the wicked because many refuse to listen to Him.
  • It was not God's desire to condemn them, but rather, God's desire is that they repent and be saved.
God's desire was that they would listen and repent.

For instance, it pleased God to create mankind in His image, but it is not God's desire that people rape, rob, kill, and murder each other.

God does not get what he desires when people live in sin, or when they refuse His grace. That is not God's desire for us. But God will respond just as he pleases to the wicked - in condemnation.

Does God take pleasure or joy in condemning the wicked? Of course not, but God does what he pleases (his choice) in punishing the wicked. And God is righteous in condemning the wicked.

Ezekiel 18:23 (WEB) 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?” says the Lord Yahweh; “and not rather that he should return from his way, and live?

Ezekiel 33:11
(WEB) 11 Tell them, ‘“As I live,” says the Lord Yahweh, “I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why will you die oh house of Israel?”’

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (WEB) They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie; 12 and so, all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

God does what he pleases, and it is God's good pleasure, in extending His grace by the Gospel to those who repent and believe in His Son (John 3:16; John 6:39-40), but many refuse God's grace, which is against what God desires for us.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.
Is it possible that what you are doing is only looking at a snapshot of a story and not seeing the big picture? Let me give you a word picture( this is my true life story) I had appendicitis so I went to the ER and they took me to surgery I was supposed to have it scoped out with only a small incision, but when I awoke I had a 10 inch incision and they found a grapefruit size tumor growing into my appendix and they had to remove all my intestines and remove the tumor and ended up cutting 10 inches of my large intestine out. If you took a snapshot of me on the table with my intestines spread all over you would think how terrible what has happened that poor man, but this was the procedure that was needed to save this mortal body. By you giving all these examples you are looking at a snapshot that unless you know the whole story would look bad. Yahweh sees the big picture he will get what he desires maybe not in the moment but eventually, if you look down the road, he will get all he desires. Are the things like rape,robbery, pain and suffering these are the tools that Yahweh is using to bring about his desires, no different than the surgeon who used a knife to cut me open and spread my guts on the table if not for drugs letting me sleep , that would have been a very painful thing but it was what was necessary for my mortal body to be well. At the end Yahweh 100% satan 0%
 
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setst777

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Is it possible that what you are doing is only looking at a snapshot of a story and not seeing the big picture? Let me give you a word picture( this is my true life story) I had appendicitis so I went to the ER and they took me to surgery I was supposed to have it scoped out with only a small incision, but when I awoke I had a 10 inch incision and they found a grapefruit size tumor growing into my appendix and they had to remove all my intestines and remove the tumor and ended up cutting 10 inches of my large intestine out. If you took a snapshot of me on the table with my intestines spread all over you would think how terrible what has happened that poor man, but this was the procedure that was needed to save this mortal body. By you giving all these examples you are looking at a snapshot that unless you know the whole story would look bad. Yahweh sees the big picture he will get what he desires maybe not in the moment but eventually, if you look down the road, he will get all he desires. Are the things like rape,robbery, pain and suffering these are the tools that Yahweh is using to bring about his desires, no different than the surgeon who used a knife to cut me open and spread my guts on the table if not for drugs letting me sleep , that would have been a very painful thing but it was what was necessary for my mortal body to be well. At the end Yahweh 100% satan 0%

Your response totally ignores the Scriptures I provided that show that
  • Only those who believe, the righteous, are saved, and that is God's desire.
  • Those who did not believe, and refused God's grace so that they may remain in sin, will be condemned, for God does what he pleases, and God is pleased to judge the wicked and condemn to unquenchable fire.
  • God's desire was not fulfilled by judging the wicked, for God desires all to be saved, but God's justice was satisfied by condemning the wicked to the Lake of Fire forever, which is the Second Death.
  • God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. God does not desire to condemn the wicked, but according to the Council of His Will, God was pleased to condemn the wicked to satisfy His justice.
  • Nowhere in God's Word does God undue the Second Death in the unquenchable Lake of Fire. Rather the smoke of that torment goes on forever and ever.
God indeed is allowing the wheat (those who believe and follow Lord Jesus into righteousness) and the tares (all those who do evil - children of the Devil) to grow together in the present age so the true wheat may be identified and saved, but the tares (the wicked) remained condemned.

Matthew 13:24-30 (NIV)
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

The wheat proves itself to be genuine by the fruit the wheat bears in contrast to the tares.

Lord Jesus explains the Parable of the wheat and the tares; in that, at the end of the age, the wheat (the righteous) will be saved, while the tares (the wicked) will be burned with unquenchable fire.

Matthew 13:26-43 (NIV)
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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Like I said you are refusing to look at the big picture . Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
 
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Der Alte

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Like I said you are refusing to look at the big picture . Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.
It does get clearer than that if you only seek out vss, which seem to support your UR assumptions/presuppositions. I think it is you who is refusing to look at the big picture.
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus did not say "everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Jesus said, "Not every one shall enter into the kingdom of heaven!... Many will say to me in that day, i.e. Judgment day, Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name done many wonderful works?" But Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
When Jesus says "never," He means never, not someday by and by.

Jeremiah 13:11-14
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
= = =
Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient


;​
 
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Jeff Saunders

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It does get clearer than that if you only seek out vss, which seem to support your UR assumptions/presuppositions. I think it is you who is refusing to look at the big picture.
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus did not say "everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Jesus said, "Not every one shall enter into the kingdom of heaven!... Many will say to me in that day, i.e. Judgment day, Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name done many wonderful works?" But Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
When Jesus says "never," He means never, not someday by and by.

Jeremiah 13:11-14
(11) For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
(12) Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
(13) Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
(14) And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
= = =
Romans 1:24
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient


;​
I had a thought! How do you define the Kingdom of God ? Matt 15:25 Jesus asked Peter who do kings collect taxes from their own family? No to the subjects of the kingdom. I see the kingdom of God as those who are part of his family, the thing we are told is us , those who have followed Jesus , we are the kingdom. All the rest of humanity will be the subjects of that kingdom. I think Rev 22:15 the people who are outside the New Jerusalem they can’t even go inside they are on the New Earth not burning in hell. I do not agree with the idea that everyone goes to heaven and if you were to look at all my posts you would see I have never said that all go to heaven. So I agree that not all will be part of the kingdom.
 
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setst777

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Like I said you are refusing to look at the big picture . Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish. It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

Jeff, is it not you are the one who is refusing to look at the big picture - God's Plan according to the Scriptures?

Regarding Ezekiel 16, God is addressing Israel in relation to all the other nations and lands and daughters (or neighboring nations), all of which, as a whole, spurned God and did wickedly. The restoration that God plans for these nations or lands will come about in the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20; Zechariah 8; Zechariah 14:16).

The only ones resurrected during the Millennial Reign are Christians (Jew and Gentile) who take part in the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6) and will sit on thrones to judge the nations - those people who are still living on the earth. Therefore, Ezekiel 16, when it refers to all these nations, that is referring to all those living on the earth at that time.

Your thinking is that all the wicked that ever existed will be resurrected to Life at that time. Not so, because at the end of the age, there will be a Resurrection onto Judgment that will occur after the Millennial Reign and the permanent defeat of Satan. At the Judgment, all those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are thrown into the fire (Daniel 12:1-2; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 25:46; Revelation 20:11-15), which is the Second Death (Revelation 21:5-8).

What you are trying to do is to use the OT to interpret the mystery of the NT, when the reverse is actually the case. We are to interpret the OT with the NT - the mystery revealed.

1 Peter 1:12 (WEB) 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Colossians 2:1-4 (NIV) 2 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally (in writing). 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

Ephesians 3:4-6 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

So, as we meditate on Ezekiel 16, I then turn to the NT, which is the fullness of the revelation of the Gospel, the mystery revealed. The NT teaches us that only a remnant of Israel will be saved (Romans 9:27; Romans 11). And those of all the other nations (the Gentiles) that "Ezekiel 16" mentions, only a remnant will be saved from these. For, as Lord Jesus taught, only a few out of the mass of humanity from Israel and the nations will be saved, and the rest of humanity will be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV) 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there in: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Revelation 3:3-5 (WEB) Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you.4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life...

Luke 13:23-30 (WEB)
23 One said to him, “Lord, are they few who are saved?” He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ then he will answer and tell you, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 He will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in God’s Kingdom, and yourselves being thrown outside.
29 They will come from the east, west, north, and south, and will sit down in God’s Kingdom.
30 Behold, there are some who are last who will be first, and there are some who are first who will be last.”

We see from Luke 13, that the remnant who are saved come not only from Israel (verse 28), but also come from all the nations (verse 29 east, west, north, and south).

We see from verse 30, that some who are last will be first, and some first will be last.
This means that the people of the nations (Gentiles) will enter the Kingdom of God before most of the Jews are saved, because - in the Gospel Age - God is using the present obstinacy of the Jews to make room for the Gentiles to be saved. Once the full number of Gentiles has come in, then God fulfills His promises to the repentant Nation Israel in the Millennial Kingdom (Ezekiel 16:60; Zechariah 12, 13, 14). At that time, the repentant natural Israelites, who were not Christians before then, will be saved.

After the Millennial Reign is complete, and Satan is finally cast down forever, and all those who did wickedly are judged and thrown into the fire (Revelation 20), and natural Israel will be resurrected to Eternal Life - and so all Israel is saved - the Jews and Gentiles who, by faith, inherit the Promises made to Abraham.

Then the Eternal Kingdom of God begins in the New Heavens and the New Earth. The New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1-4) represents all of Israel - Jews and Gentiles who are saved, for the Gentiles inherit the promises of Israel, being grafted into the Olive Tree (Romans 11).

The Wheat and the Tares Parable (Matthew 13:24-43) shows, in a nutshell, what God's Plan is.

Matthew 13:40-43 (WEB) 40 As therefore the weeds (tares) are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and those who do iniquity, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Also: "John 3:16-18" gives us the big picture; in that, those who believe are saved, and those who refuse to believe remain condemned.

You want change and to add to the Word of God your own Plan to match how you feel God should do things. You will object, but you have not shown me anywhere in Scripture that those that belong to the Devil, and of whom God throws into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death, will get another chance later on.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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Jeff, is it not you are the one who is refusing to look at the big picture - God's Plan according to the Scriptures?

Regarding Ezekiel 16, God is addressing Israel in relation to all the other nations and lands and daughters (or neighboring nations), all of which, as a whole, spurned God and did wickedly. The restoration that God plans for these nations or lands will come about in the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20; Zechariah 8; Zechariah 14:16).

The only ones resurrected during the Millennial Reign are Christians who take part in the First Resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6). Therefore, Ezekiel 16, when it refers to all these nations, that is referring to all those living on the earth at that time. Your thinking is that all the wicked that ever existed will be resurrected to Life at that time. Not so, because at the end of the age, there will be a Resurrection onto Judgment that will occur after the Millennial Reign and the permanent defeat of Satan; All those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are thrown into the fire (Daniel 12:1-2; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 25:46; Revelation 20:11-15), which is the Second Death (Revelation 21:5-8).

What you are trying to do is to use the OT to interpret the mystery of the NT, when the reverse is actually the case. We are to interpret the OT with the NT - the mystery revealed.

1 Peter 1:12 (WEB) 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Colossians 2:1-4 (NIV) 2 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally (in writing). 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

Ephesians 3:4-6 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

So, as we meditate on Ezekiel 16, I then turn to the NT, which is the fullness of the revelation of the Gospel, the mystery revealed. The NT teaches us that only a remnant of Israel will be saved (Romans 9:27; Romans 11). And those of all the other nations (the Gentiles) that "Ezekiel 16" mentions, only a remnant will be saved from these. For, as Lord Jesus taught, only a few out of the mass of humanity from Israel and the nations will be saved, and the rest of humanity will be judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 7:13-14 (KJV) 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Revelation 3:3-5 (WEB) Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you.4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life...

Luke 13:23-30 (WEB)
23 One said to him, “Lord, are they few who are saved?” He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter in by the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will seek to enter in and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen up, and has shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ then he will answer and tell you, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 He will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in God’s Kingdom, and yourselves being thrown outside.
29 They will come from the east, west, north, and south, and will sit down in God’s Kingdom.
30 Behold, there are some who are last who will be first, and there are some who are first who will be last.”

We see from Luke 13, that the remnant who are saved come not only from Israel (verse 28), but also come from all the nations (verse 29 east, west, north, and south).

We see from verse 30, that some who are last will be first, and some first will be last.
This means that the people of the nations (Gentiles) will enter the Kingdom of God before most of the Jews are saved, because - in the Gospel Age - God is using the present obstinacy of the Jews to make room for the Gentiles to be saved. Once the full number of Gentiles has come in, then God fulfills His promises to the repentant Nation Israel in the Millennial Kingdom (Ezekiel 16:60; Zechariah 12, 13, 14). At that time, the repentant natural Israelites, who were not Christians before then, will be saved.

After the Millennial Reign is complete, and Satan is finally cast down forever, and all those who did wickedly are judged and thrown into the fire (Revelation 20), then the Eternal Kingdom of God begins in the New Heavens and the New Earth. The New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1-4) represents all of Israel - Jews and Gentiles who are saved, for the Gentiles inherit the promises of Israel, being grafted into the Olive Tree (Romans 11).

The Wheat and the Tares Parable (Matthew 13:24-43) shows, in a nutshell, what God's Plan is.

Matthew 13:40-43 (WEB) 40 As therefore the weeds (tares) are gathered up and burned with fire; so will it be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and those who do iniquity, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Also: "John 3:16-18" gives us the big picture; in that, those who believe are saved, and those who refuse to believe remain condemned.

You want change and to add to the Word of God your own Plan to match how you feel God should do things. You will object, but you have not shown me anywhere in Scripture that those that belong to the Devil, and of whom God throws into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death, will get another chance later on.
I guess it really comes down to how we interpret scripture. You place what the English call eternal hell as the priority and all things must be filtered through that lens. I choose to prioritize the verses that say “ it’s Gods will that none should parish/ all the verses that say Jesus is the savior of the world not the potential savior of the world/ every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord/ as in Adam all die in Christ all will live. / if I (Jesus) be lifted up I will draw ( Greek means drag away) all men unto myself. And others I think you get the point. I choose to prioritize these verses and interpret the other verses through them. This for me was easy when I found out the Greek word translated eternal could be translated of the age . But even without that knowing the nature and character of Yahweh he could never torture people forever . It’s really a matter of what you want to make as a priority and your view and understanding of Yahweh.
 
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Der Alte

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I had a thought! How do you define the Kingdom of God ? Matt 15:25 Jesus asked Peter who do kings collect taxes from their own family? No to the subjects of the kingdom. I see the kingdom of God as those who are part of his family, the thing we are told is us , those who have followed Jesus , we are the kingdom. All the rest of humanity will be the subjects of that kingdom. I think Rev 22:15 the people who are outside the New Jerusalem they can’t even go inside they are on the New Earth not burning in hell. I do not agree with the idea that everyone goes to heaven and if you were to look at all my posts you would see I have never said that all go to heaven. So I agree that not all will be part of the kingdom.
In the post I quoted you said, "Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish.[sic] It doesn’t get any clearer than that." Sounds like everybody goes to heaven to me.
 
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setst777

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I guess it really comes down to how we interpret scripture. You place what the English call eternal hell as the priority and all things must be filtered through that lens. I choose to prioritize the verses that say “ it’s Gods will that none should parish/ all the verses that say Jesus is the savior of the world not the potential savior of the world/ every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord/ as in Adam all die in Christ all will live. / if I (Jesus) be lifted up I will draw ( Greek means drag away) all men unto myself. And others I think you get the point. I choose to prioritize these verses and interpret the other verses through them. This for me was easy when I found out the Greek word translated eternal could be translated of the age . But even without that knowing the nature and character of Yahweh he could never torture people forever . It’s really a matter of what you want to make as a priority and your view and understanding of Yahweh.
I am reading the Scriptures as a whole, as it was meant to read in context, just as you read any other book or letter. What you are doing is ignoring those parts of Scripture you don't like, and then recreating your own plan of salvation. Go your way now. All things will happen just as God said they will. Nothing more is to be added or taken away.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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In the post I quoted you said, "Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish.[sic] It doesn’t get any clearer than that." Sounds like everybody goes to heaven to me.
Did you read my post? I said I agree not everyone goes to heaven.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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I am reading the Scriptures as a whole, as it was meant to read in context, just as you read any other book or letter. What you are doing is ignoring those parts of Scripture you don't like, and then recreating your own plan of salvation. Go your way now. All things will happen just as God said they will. Nothing more is to be added or taken away.
Are not you doing the same thing? You ignore or explain away all the verses that say Jesus is the savior of the world and creating your own plan of salvation. I understand where you are coming from I taught the same stuff for many years, but now I know the rest of the story.
 
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Der Alte

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* * * if I (Jesus) be lifted up I will draw ( Greek means drag away) all men unto myself. * * *
This isolated proof text is often quoted to prove UR. But if that is the true meaning then Jesus, Himself disproves it.
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​
Jesus did NOT say He would forcibly drag everyone to Himself.
Jesus said, "Not every one ... shall enter into the kingdom of heaven... Many [NOT a few] will say to me in that day, [Judgment day] Lord, Lord, have we not...in thy name done many wonderful works? But Jesus will say to them....I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
When Jesus says never, He means never not someday by and by.
 
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Did you read my post? I said I agree not everyone goes to heaven.
Yes, I did, But I also read this post, "Ezekiel 16 says God will restore sodom and Gamora. God is in the business of restoration. That is why scripture says it’s Gods will none should parish.[sic] It doesn’t get any clearer than that." One contradicts the other.
 
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...This for me was easy when I found out the Greek word translated eternal could be translated of the age . But even without that knowing the nature and character of Yahweh he could never torture people forever . ...
This statement about "aionios" is patently false. "Aionios" is an adjective. "Age" is a noun. An adjective cannot by any stretch be translated as a noun. See my post in this thread where I quote 24 N.T. vss. which define/describe "aionios" as "eternal."
 
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Are not you doing the same thing? You ignore or explain away all the verses that say Jesus is the savior of the world and creating your own plan of salvation. I understand where you are coming from I taught the same stuff for many years, but now I know the rest of the story.
No. I am not doing the same thing. You quote about Jesus being the Savior of the world, and then you put your blinders on, and create your own doctrine from just that isolated verse. I look at the verse in light of all the other verses, including the famous "John 3:14-18" that plainly teach us what that means:

John 3:14-18 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Go your way now. You will never understand these things in your present state of mind. You must first repent of man-made doctrines, and put your complete faith in God and His Word. Only then will your mind and heart be open to listen to the whole council of God just as it was meant to be read and understood.
 
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Jeff Saunders

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This statement about "aionios" is patently false. "Aionios" is an adjective. "Age" is a noun. An adjective cannot by any stretch be translated as a noun. See my post in this thread where I quote 24 N.T. vss. which define/describe "aionios" as "eternal."
I thought an adjective is a word that describes something, like the word tall it describes height so tall can be 10 feet or 12000 feet depending on what’s it’s describing. You keep saying that it aionios has to be eternal because in our English Bible it has Jesus saying eternal but from my research Jesus most likely didn’t use Greek he spoke Hebrew, so he probably used the word olam. Olam is used to describe a slaves life, the age of the mountains, the priesthood, the time Jonah spent in the fish and other things that clearly had or will have and end. So all the verses that Jesus says in English eternal punishment should be olam punishment and there is precedent for olam to have a limited time I choose not to ignore that and so that is why I believe what the Bible calls hell doesn’t have to be eternal, this to me is more in line with Yahwehs character and nature.
 
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The Wrath of God by Arthur W. Pink – Grace Online Library

It is sad indeed to find so many professing Christians who appear to regard the wrath of God as something for which they need to make an apology, or who at least wish there were no such thing. While some who would not go so far as to openly admit that they consider it a blemish on the Divine character, yet they are far from regarding it with delight; they like not to think about it, and they rarely hear it mentioned without a secret resentment rising up in their hearts against it. Even with those who are more sober in their judgment, not a few seem to imagine that there is a severity about the Divine wrath that makes it too terrifying to form a theme for profitable contemplation. Others harbor the delusion that God’s wrath is not consistent with his goodness, and so seek to banish it from their thoughts.

Yes, many there are who turn away from a vision of God’s wrath as though they were called to look upon some blotch in the Divine character or some blot upon the Divine government. But what saith the Scriptures? As we turn to them we find that God has made no attempt to conceal the facts concerning His wrath. He is not ashamed to make it known that vengeance and fury belong unto Him. His own challenge is:

See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with Me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand. For I lift up My hand to heaven, and say, I live forever. If I whet My glittering sword, and Mine hand take hold on judgment, I will render vengeance to Mine enemies, and will reward them that hate Me (Deut 32:39-41).

A study of the concordance will show that there are more references in Scripture to the anger, fury, and wrath of God, than there are to His love and tenderness. Because God is holy, He hates all sin; and because He hates all sin, His anger burns against the sinner (Psa 7:11).

Now the wrath of God is as much a Divine perfection as is His faithfulness, power, or mercy. It must be so, for there is no blemish whatever, not the slightest defect in the character of God; yet there would be if ‘wrath’ were absent from Him! Indifference to sin is a moral blemish, and he who hates it not is a moral leper. How could He who is the Sum of all excellency look with equal satisfaction upon virtue and vice, wisdom and folly? How could He who is infinitely holy disregard sin and refuse to manifest His ‘severity’ (Rom 9:22) toward it? How could He, who delights only in that which is pure and lovely, not loathe and hate that which is impure and vile? The very nature of God makes Hell as real a necessity, as imperatively and eternally requisite, as Heaven is. Not only is there no imperfection in God, but there is no perfection in Him that is less perfect than another.

The wrath of God is His eternal detestation of all unrighteousness. It is the displeasure and indignation of Divine equity against evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin. It is the moving cause of that just sentence which he passes upon evildoers. God is angry against sin because it is a rebelling against His authority, a wrong done to His inviolable sovereignty. Insurrectionists against God’s government shall be made to know that God is the Lord. They shall be made to feel how great that Majesty is which they despise, and how dreadful is that threatened wrath which they so little regarded. Not that God’s anger is a malignant and malicious retaliation, inflicting injury for the sake of it, or in return for injury received. No, though God will vindicate His dominion as the Governor of the universe, He will not be vindictive.

That Divine wrath is one of the perfections of God is not only evident from the considerations presented above, but is also clearly established by the express declarations of His own Word. ‘For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven’ (Rom 1: 18). Robert Haldane comments on this verse as follows:

It was revealed when the sentence of death was first pronounced, the earth cursed, and man driven out of the earthly paradise, and afterwards by such examples of punishment as those of the Deluge, and the destruction of the Cities of the Plain by fire from heaven, but especially by the reign of death throughout the world. It was proclaimed in the curse of the law on every transgression, and was intimated in the institution of sacrifice, and in all the services of the Mosaic dispensation. In the eighth chapter of this epistle, the Apostle calls the attention of believers to the fact that the whole creation has become subject to vanity, and groaneth and travaileth together in pain. The same creation which declares that there is a God, and publishes His glory, also proves that He is the Enemy of sin and the Avenger of the crimes of men…But above all, the wrath of God came down to manifest the Divine character, and when that wrath was displayed in His sufferings and death, in a manner more awful than by all the tokens God had before given of His displeasure against sin. Besides this, the future and eternal punishment of the wicked is now declared in terms more solemn and explicit than formerly. Under the new dispensation, there are two revelations given from heaven, one of wrath, the other of grace.

Again, that the wrath of God is a Divine perfection is plainly demonstrated by what we read in Psalm 95:11: ‘Unto whom I sware in My wrath.’ There are two occasions of God’s ‘swearing’: in making promises (Gen 22:16); and in pronouncing judgments (Deut 1:34ff). In the former, He swears in mercy to His children; in the latter, He swears to deprive a wicked generation of its inheritance because of murmuring and unbelief. An oath is for solemn confirmation (Heb 6:16). In Genesis 22:16 God says, ‘By Myself have I sworn.’ In Psalm 89:35 He declares, ‘Once have I sworn by My holiness.’ While in Psalm 95:11 He affirms, ‘I swear in My wrath’ Thus the great Jehovah Himself appeals to His ‘wrath’ as a perfection equal to His ‘holiness’: He swears by the one as much as by the other! Again, as in Christ ‘dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily’ (sol 2:9), and as all the Divine perfections are illustriously displayed by Him (John 1:18), therefore do we read of ‘the wrath of the Lamb’ (Rev 6:16).

The wrath of God is a perfection of the Divine character upon which we need to frequently meditate. First, that our hearts may be duly impressed by God’s detestation of sin. We are ever prone to regard sin lightly, to gloss over its hideousness, to make excuses for it. But the more we study and ponder God’s abhorrence of sin and His frightful vengeance upon it, the more likely are we to realize its heinousness. Secondly, to beget a true fear in our souls for God: ‘Let us have grace whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: for our God is a consuming fire’ (Heb 12:28-29). We cannot serve him ‘acceptably’ unless there is due ‘reverence’ for His awful Majesty and ‘godly fear’ of His righteous anger; and these are best promoted by frequently calling to mind that ‘our God is a consuming fire.’ Thirdly, to draw out our souls in fervent praise for our having been delivered from ‘the wrath to come’ ( 1 Thess 1: 10).

Our readiness or our reluctancy to meditate upon the wrath of God becomes a sure test of our hearts’ true attitude toward Him. If we do not truly rejoice in God, for what He is in Himself, and that because of all the perfections which are eternally resident in Him, then how dwelleth the love of God in us? Each of us needs to be most prayerfully on his guard against devising an image of God in our thoughts which is patterned after our own evil inclinations. Of old the Lord complained, ‘Thou thoughtest that I was altogether as thyself (Psa 50:21 ). If we rejoice not ‘at the remembrance of His holiness’ (Psa 97:12), if we rejoice not to know that in a soon-coming Day God will make a most glorious display of His wrath by taking vengeance upon all who now oppose Him, it is proof positive that our hearts are not in subjection to Him, that we are yet in our sins, and that we are on the way to the everlasting burnings.

‘Rejoice, O ye nations [Gentiles] with His people, for He will avenge the blood of His servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries’ (Deut 32:43). And again we read-

I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia (Rev 19:1-3).

Great will be the rejoicing of the saints in that day when the Lord shall vindicate His majesty, exercise His awful dominion, magnify His justice, and overthrow the proud rebels who have dared to defy Him.

‘If thou Lord, shouldest mark [impute] iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?’ (Psa 130:3). Well may each of us ask this question, for it is written, ‘the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment’ (Psa 1:5). How sorely was Christ’s soul exercised with thoughts of God’s marking the iniquities of His people when they were upon Him! He was ‘amazed and very heavy’ (Mark 14:33). His awful agony, His bloody sweat, His strong cries and supplications (Heb 5:7), His reiterated prayers (‘If it be possible, let this cup pass from Me’), His last dreadful cry (‘My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?’) all manifest what fearful apprehensions He had of what it was for God to ‘mark iniquities.’ Well may poor sinners cry out, ‘Lord, who shall stand,’ when the Son of God Himself so trembled beneath the weight of His wrath! If thou, my reader, hast not ‘fled for refuge’ to Christ, the only Savior, ‘how wilt thou do in the swelling of the Jordan?’ (Jer 12:5).

When I consider how the goodness of God is abused by the greatest part of mankind, I cannot but be of his mind that said, The greatest miracle in the world is God’s patience and bounty to an ungrateful world. If a prince hath an enemy got into one of his towns, he doth not send them in provision, but lays close siege to the place, and doth what he can to starve them. But the great God, that could wink all His enemies into destruction, bears with them, and it at daily cost to maintain them. Well may He command us to bless them that curse us, who Himself does good to the evil and unthankful. But think not, sinners, that you shall escape thus; God’s mill goes slow, but grinds small, the more admirable His patience and bounty now is, the more dreadful and unsupportable will that fury be which ariseth out of His abused goodness. Nothing smoother than the sea, yet when stirred into a tempest, nothing rageth more. Nothing so sweet as the patience and goodness of God, and nothing so terrible as His wrath when it takes fire (William Gurnall,1660).

Then ‘flee,’ my reader, flee to Christ; ‘flee from the wrath to come’ (Matt 3:7) ere it be too late. Do not, we earnestly beseech you, suppose that this message is intended for somebody else. It is to you! Do not be contented by thinking you have already fled to Christ. Make certain! Beg the Lord to search your heart and show you yourself.
Matthew introduces John the Baptist as a fulfillment of Isaiah 40:3. He is the voice crying in the wilderness as he prepares the way for the Lord. John calls the crowds who travel to hear him to repent from their sins. The kingdom of heaven is close! He also warns of God's judgment, specifically on Israel's spiritually-barren religious leaders. God did show a lot of wrath in the Old Testament but not The New Testament which is the covenant Christians live under. Scholars of the Bible say that taking one verse and trying to use it to make a point will result in undermining what the verse really means.
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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I thought an adjective is a word that describes something, like the word tall it describes height so tall can be 10 feet or 12000 feet depending on what’s it’s describing. You keep saying that it aionios has to be eternal because in our English Bible it has Jesus saying eternal but from my research Jesus most likely didn’t use Greek he spoke Hebrew, so he probably used the word olam. Olam is used to describe a slaves life, the age of the mountains, the priesthood, the time Jonah spent in the fish and other things that clearly had or will have and end. So all the verses that Jesus says in English eternal punishment should be olam punishment and there is precedent for olam to have a limited time I choose not to ignore that and so that is why I believe what the Bible calls hell doesn’t have to be eternal, this to me is more in line with Yahwehs character and nature.
I have seen your specious arguments before. Your "tall" argument in nonsensical. The Intellectually challenged might think like that. If you have some cogent research about something post it here. I am not interested in what you say you might have read somewhere. All your arguments are moot. The very few times "olam" refers to something that is not and cannot be "eternal" are easily shown to be figurative. I also have a study of all the occurrences of "olam" in the O.T.
Link to my post PROVING that "aionios" means "eternal."

Link to my post proving that olam means eternal.
 
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