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Featured The World Needs Women Priests

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Love365, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    Jesus didn't come to form a church that conforms to the world but the contrary, those who want Him conform to Him and part of that is through the church, church and especially scriptural doctrines. Women clergy is not part of the deal. Sorry. It might feel good but the guidelines are written.
     
  2. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    Jesus spoke in riddles to enlighten some, while preventing others from understanding. The passage you alluded to was about Jesus, but you don't seem to understand it.

    I never met her.
     
  3. Philip_B

    Philip_B all shall be well and all shall be well and ... Supporter

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    I believe that women have the capacity to bring something to the charism of priesthood that is uniquely feminine. They will not do this by being pseudo-male's and we should not try to force that upon them, but rather allow this to happen with authenticity. I believe in the Anglican Church of Australia, where women have been ordained for 20+ years now we are beginning to see this happen.

    Initially I had thought that they may bring more kindliness to the office, and whilst that has not on the whole materialized as yet, part of that may be because we have not allowed our women priests to the kinder.
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Ah, well, I can respect anyone who puts action behind his convictions.
     
  5. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Personally, I find this kind of argument quite problematic, because it suggests that the justification for women clergy is that we supply something lacking in the men. And I'm not sure that's the case, either individually or collectively.

    If we take, for example, the idea that women might be kinder than men, that immediately founders for me on the knowledge of the incredible kindness of some of the male priests I have known. (And the astonishing lack of kindness of some of the women, although one might hope that would be a work in progress....)

    On the whole, I don't believe ministry is a deeply gendered experience. I have learned that sometimes some people will choose a person of a particular sex for particular pastoral needs (anecdotally, abuse disclosures are far more commonly made to women; and some men are more willing to expose their vulnerabilities to other men). But apart from that, each one of us is unique and individual in the mix of gifts, enthusiasms, skills, personality and experience that we bring to what we do.

    It's not that we should expect women to present or behave in stereotypically masculine ways, but also that we shouldn't think that a woman's vocation stands or falls on her perceived femininity, either.
     
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  6. Philip_B

    Philip_B all shall be well and all shall be well and ... Supporter

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    In no sense would I envisage gender stereotypes, but I do believe that a collegiate priesthood with men and women represented has a wholeness that was not so present in a monogendered priesthood. However I don't think clergy are genderless, and should not try to be. I am sure I am expressing this inadequately, and trust you will appreciate something of what I am trying to articulate.
     
  7. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I agree insofar as that any group which deliberately excludes and denigrates others cannot be truly, wholly human (and for all the disclaimers, the refusal to ordain women does exclude and denigrate us).

    But I don't think it's because women bring something that the men lack, as a group, much less that any woman can argue that her vocation ought to be recognised because she brings something a man might not. (If that makes sense?)
     
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Perhaps it's something more like the full image of God in his creation is lacking in the church if both men and women are not fully included in his priesthood and representing the fullness of his human creation. Once the veil of the physical temple was severed upon Jesus' death, the old law and the old covenant was replaced with the holy priesthood of all believers, with the Most Holy Place residing in the temple of the heart.

    While there is no male or female in the soul of a person, a person's physical biology does bring uniqueness to one's physical experiences on here on earth, and when that uniqueness is excluded, the body (of Christ) as a whole is severely crippled, and we've all been witnessing the negative results of the crippled body for centuries.
     
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  9. Ancient of Days

    Ancient of Days Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why is a gender specific resolution the answer to a perceived problem?
     
  10. rturner76

    rturner76 The silent majority needs to wake up Supporter

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    In my situation, the Priest is more like a CEO and handles the Sunday Mass, a smattering of other daily Masses and he deals with the "business" of the Parish. The business is both a Parish and a national landmark. I tried to make an appointment to meet with him for spiritual direction and was referred to a Spiritual Director who happened to actually be a woman.

    So even though women can't consecrate the Eucharist or hear confession, they can provide Pastoral care in terms of spiritual direction which is a huge part of a Priest's duties. So, even though women can't provide the sacraments, they can provide pastoral care. Many have benefitted from spiritual direction provided by women, not to mention all of the administrative positions in ministries like St Vincent Depaul which help the needy, discussion groups and other Curch-approved curriculum is also led by women. RCIA, prayer shall ministry, sandwich and coffee ministry, and many of the homeless initiatives and addiction treatment groups are also led by women.

    So just because women aren't Priests, it doesn't mean they don't play a critical role in the administration and ministry of the Church. Plus we haven't even touched on female monastic life which provided medical care, adoption services for both sides of the adoption, education, addiction treatment, and social services like soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and addiction treatment facilities.

    Women probably do more for the church than men overall, there is just one job they can't hold.
     
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  11. Love365

    Love365 Member

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    Some women might feel more comfortable
    telling their confessions to a woman priest.

    A woman bishop or cardinal would be
    more effective leading the Pro-Life movement.

    It might be better for a woman priest
    to work in a Catholic all girls school.
    Women are better at teaching girls.
     
  12. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Point one is irrelevant. Point two is untrue. And point three is mistaken, in that women already ARE more prominent in Catholic education for girls, even if these teachers and administrators are not priests.
     
  13. Love365

    Love365 Member

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    In poor countries a church might only have a priest.
    They don’t have the money for all the other jobs you listed.
     
  14. rturner76

    rturner76 The silent majority needs to wake up Supporter

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    That's true however a woman who feels called to ministry may have to go away from her home town to a place where her talents can be used for her calling. I have seen men who were not ordained Priests or Pastors who do things like teach Sunday school, direct the choir, lead Bible study or all the other things I mentioned.

    I know as far as my particular denomination, even the Priest has to go where the church sends him and most of the time it seems Priests don't get to preach in their hometown until they have some senority and request a certain position that is open. Still, I know what you mean like the opportunities for women in ministry are not the same and not equal.

    The good thing is that there are many denominations that do accept women as Pastors that I believe still have good theology. In my personal opinion, there is no single right way to run a church. People are different, have different needs and strengths so now that there is a multitude of churches out there, most anybody can find the right place for them. I just personally choose a more traditional or maybe you could say the conservative style of church being Roman Catholic.
     
  15. rturner76

    rturner76 The silent majority needs to wake up Supporter

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    Plus in monastic life there are female Abbots or I think they are called "Mother Superior" and they could be in charge of a multitude of nuns, ministries, properties, and financial resources.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Certainly, and women as well. Why a women would have to go away from her home town needs to be explained, since it does not seem to be true in real life.
     
  17. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    I think it's a case of going where the church needs you. You have no guarantee of a position in your desired location, wherever that might be. In Anglicanism, which does give clergy more say in where we go, it can become a real problem when clergy just don't want to go to certain places. Poor and rural parishes can suffer.

    Incidentally, that relates to the married/not married discussion; a lot of the time the disincentive in that scenario is that the spouse doesn't want to live in a particular area, or there are no jobs for the spouse, or only poor opportunities for the children, and so on. A single cleric doesn't have to take that kind of thing into account.
     
  18. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's what I was thinking.

     
  19. Love365

    Love365 Member

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    Women can learn new languages 4 times faster.

    A woman can learn to speak
    French, Spanish, Portuguese, and German.

    In the same amount of time it takes a man to learn French.
     
  20. Love365

    Love365 Member

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    Proverbs 31:26

    She openeth her mouth with wisdom
    and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
     
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