The Wise Virgins Are About to Awake and DO Something. Any Guesses What That Might Be?

[Maria Billingsley]

The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to the obedient.

Acts 5
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

If this parable is indeed tied to the Holy Spirit in some way, what we're being told then is that the 5 unwise virgins who became betrothed to Christ, lacked obedience. Had they continued to obey, then their lamps would have been full of oil and their wicks trimmed.

Actually IMHO, I believe that through Grace The Father has given His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the final payment for all sin. And through belief, faith and trust, we are regenerated and enter The Body of Christ through His Holy Spirit. Obedience is belief, faith and trust in Him. When we walk in His Holy Spirit, we are transformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ of Nazareth through Sanctification.

 

[Gideons300]

I suppose we are at an impasse: you believe you and other Christians are sinless; and I believe that you are not. Good luck with that when you fall later today or tomorrow and have an impure thought or act in anger or pride, or any of the other thousand sins all humans commit constantly.

Perhaps we should separate willful disobedience from imperfections. What is your stance on sinning willfully.... choosing to proceed into sin when you have been convicted of its wrong?

The Word of God is clear in this area. To those who do so, there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for of judgment. If we are lumping both types together, so that somehow it makes our "willful choices to indulge in sin" the same as sins that overtake us despite our wanting to be set free from them, we are flat out being deceived.

If a man is having an affair, knowing full well that God tells us to not be deceived, that adulterers will NOT inherit the kingdom of God, does God' grace make it all A-OK?

God says we are in such a case spitting on the offering of Christ and making His sacrifice for us of none effect. What do you believe in such a case?

blessings,

Gideon

 

[JIMINZ]

The only way to reconcile the verses in Galatians with the fact that everyone sins daily is that it’s impossible to walk in the spirit for an entire day or two because no one does.

OK, I will have to admit your right.

You have confessed you sin every day.

While I on the other hand do walk in the Spirit every single day, and I don't.

You see, it isn't a matter of me being better than you, it's only that you do not understand where it is "YOU STAND IN CHRIST" while I do.

Rom. 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Gal. 2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Rom. 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[Gideons300]

OK, I will have to admit your right.

You have confessed you sin every day.

While I on the other hand do walk in the Spirit every single day, and I don't.

You see, it isn't a matter of me being better than you, it's only that you do not understand where it is "YOU STAND IN CHRIST" and I do.

You just made my night. Thanks for that.

Gids

 

[JIMINZ]

Your very welcome.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Hopefully I can get on your guys level and live a life of sinless perfection but until then I’ll rely on grace and the cross.

 

[JIMINZ]

Hopefully I can get on your guys level and live a life of sinless perfection but until then I’ll rely on grace and the cross.

Like I said, I'm not better than you are, you just have not come to the point of understanding where you can accept what you are being told exists for the Believer.

I said in my last post to you, you are dead to the law, and dead to sin.

How then does a Believer sin if, he is dead to both of these?

I left out one other thing a Believer is dead to, you are also dead to the Flesh, (Old Man).

Knowing this first, Jesus destroyed Sin in the Flesh.

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Therefore before any Believers died to the Law, Sin or the Flesh Jesus Himself Destroyed sin in the flesh by taking it, (His Flesh to the Cross) for us and Destroying sin in the flesh for all believers, (IN HIM), are we (In Him) or not that is the question, every believer should know this without a doubt.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph. 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

1Jn. 3:4-6
4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:8-10
8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I believe this is a very clear teaching. enjoy!

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Perhaps we should separate willful disobedience from imperfections. What is your stance on sinning willfully.... choosing to proceed into sin when you have been convicted of its wrong?

The Word of God is clear in this area. To those who do so, there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for of judgment. If we are lumping both types together, so that somehow it makes our "willful choices to indulge in sin" the same as sins that overtake us despite our wanting to be set free from them, we are flat out being deceived.

If a man is having an affair, knowing full well that God tells us to not be deceived, that adulterers will NOT inherit the kingdom of God, does God' grace make it all A-OK?

God says we are in such a case spitting on the offering of Christ and making His sacrifice for us of none effect. What do you believe in such a case?

blessings,

Gideon

God’s grace covers all sin, no matter what type, if the sinner repents. I think we can question people who continue in unrepentant clear sin and profess to be brothers (affairs etc in which case church discipline takes effect). I am not trying to excuse sin, only make it clear that all men sin daily. The reason I brought it up isn’t to argue it’s because I’m concerned with all the scripture that talks about not sinning and Christians living sin free because it seems clear but then in. >reality< all Christians sin constantly. Therefore I have to try and figure out how I’m misinterpreting the scripture because the word of God is infallible. I can’t listen to these people who think they are sinless it’s pure delusion. I would love to hear a clear explanation of how we still sin and how this scripture that appears to say we don’t makes sense

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Like I said, I'm not better than you are, you just have not come to the point of understanding where you can accept what you are being told exists for the Believer.

I said in my last post to you, you are dead to the law, and dead to sin.

How then does a Believer sin if, he is dead to both of these?

I left out one other thing a Believer is dead to, you are also dead to the Flesh, (Old Man).

Knowing this first, Jesus destroyed Sin in the Flesh.

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Therefore before any Believers died to the Law, Sin or the Flesh Jesus Himself Destroyed sin in the flesh by taking it, (His Flesh to the Cross) for us and Destroying sin in the flesh for all believers, (IN HIM), are we (In Him) or not that is the question, every believer should know this without a doubt.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph. 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col. 3:9
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

1Jn. 3:4-6
4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 3:8-10
8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Ok taking my arguing cap off, I hear what you are saying and I definitely count my old self, my flesh; dead in Christ. My identity is in him and I rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome temptation and not my own will or strength.
But I still sin. I get angry at my kids, I say a bad word every once in awhile when I stub my toe, I judge others, I often (as you can tell) adopt a spirit of conflict instead of a spirit of unity. These are all sins, each one—even the thought of each one—enough to damn me to hell. Praise Christ for his blood and my forgiveness. I repent of all these actions, I throw them at the cross. I’m not in sexual sin, or any of the traditional bad ones, I’m not trying to justify. I’m just being REAL. I sin and you sin. John McArthur sins, Billy Graham sinned up until the last day of his life. That is a FACT.

I can’t discuss this with people who don’t admit they do sins. You might not be defined by them but you DO them. Try to live a perfect day, you can’t. If you are married there are times every day you don’t love your wife like Christ loves the church: if you do that it’s disobedience. That’s a sin.

Do you ever say a cross or impatient word to your spouse? Then you sin. Have you ever gotten angry and said something you wish you hadn’t in the last week? If you did, you sinned.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I believe this is a very clear teaching. enjoy!

Good sermon totally dances the entire concept of whether or not real Christians can still sin.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

The gift of the Holy Spirit is given to the obedient.

Acts 5
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

If this parable is indeed tied to the Holy Spirit in some way, what we're being told then is that the 5 unwise virgins who became betrothed to Christ, lacked obedience. Had they continued to obey, then their lamps would have been full of oil and their wicks trimmed.

Sounds like works based faith, which I want no part of and don’t believe is scriptural.

 

[JIMINZ]

But I still sin. I get angry at my kids, I say a bad word every once in awhile when I stub my toe, I judge others, I often (as you can tell) adopt a spirit of conflict instead of a spirit of unity. These are all sins, each one—even the thought of each one—enough to damn me to hell. Praise Christ for his blood and my forgiveness. I repent of all these actions, I throw them at the cross. I’m not in sexual sin, or any of the traditional bad ones, I’m not trying to justify. I’m just being REAL. I sin and you sin. John McArthur sins, Billy Graham sinned up until the last day of his life. That is a FACT.

OK, let me try to put it into terms you are able understand then.

Your old man is dead, but you still live.

Paul said it this way.

Gal.2:20
I am crucified with Christ: (Dead to the Law, dead to Sin, dead to the Flesh) nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is what Paul was speaking of in Rom.7

He sums it all up in the last two verses.
Rom 7:24,25
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul was saying, I will ascent to the Law of God as Just and Good, acknowledging it's rightness.
But with the Flesh, (The inner man) (The Old man) (My human Nature) I will serve the Law of sin.

The motions of sin in my Flesh, (Nature)
Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[JIMINZ]

Good sermon totally dances the entire concept of whether or not real Christians can still sin.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins is only about the Jewish People of Jesus time, they were the ones he was speaking to and about, not Christians.

The Parable has nothing at all to do with Christians sinning.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

The Parable of the Ten Virgins is only about the Jewish People of Jesus time, they were the ones he was speaking to and about, not Christians.

The Parable has nothing at all to do with Christians sinning.

YES!

 

[GaveMeJoy]

OK, let me try to put it into terms you are able understand then.

Your old man is dead, but you still live.

Paul said it this way.

Gal.2:20
I am crucified with Christ: (Dead to the Law, dead to Sin, dead to the Flesh) nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is what Paul was speaking of in Rom.7

He sums it all up in the last two verses.
Rom 7:24,25
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul was saying, I will ascent to the Law of God as Just and Good, acknowledging it's rightness.
But with the Flesh, (The inner man) (The Old man) (My human Nature) I will serve the Law of sin.

The motions of sin in my Flesh, (Nature)
Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yes I know and agree with that. But the people in this thread were putting forth a false theology of never sinning. Can’t do that!

 

[GaveMeJoy]

Paul was explaining how one's conscience works. Once you sin, you have conditioned yourself, by the feeling of satisfaction that occurs when you sin, to sin again and to desire that feeling of satisfaction again. Now you have this problem where your flesh is at war with your mind which knows this disobedience is harmful. It is the ceasing of sin which resolves this problem because the conscience is no longer conditioned to desire what you've already given it. Our beginning as Christians wipes out all of the past sin we've done and starts us fresh again. At that moment we are in fact perfect, not because of our perfect obedience but because of what our obedience accomplished through Christ.

To say that there are times that I don't sin is not to claim perfection. We're called to repent and refrain from sin. Paul didn't say that it was impossible not to sin. In fact he often admonished people not to sin, indicating that it was entirely possible. I do wonder though why you think you know me so well that you claim to know I've been sinning.

Our actual condition should be to refrain from sin. We are called to repent and to flee from temptation. We are told we've been given all off the tools to do this. If I wasn't doing that in my life, it would be ridiculous to claim I was a Christian.

But John did not say that a person who claims he has no sin lies. When you have no sin you aren't telling a lie if you say you have no sin. He was saying that those who had sin and said they didn't were lying. He was teaching against a common belief taught in those days that it was ok to continue sinning.

If you're going to read scripture with such a lack of sublety, then you also have to accept that John also told us it was impossible for us to sin because we were Christians. That conclusion misses the mark just as yours which says we are always sinning. If we're always sinning then we're always disobeying God. Sin is disobedience to God. That's what it is. Nowhere are we told that doing so is impossible. Were it impossible, God would not be a just God who made it impossible and then said he'd hold us accountable for the very sin we can't avoid.

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

"So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."

"Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses. As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

We are called not to sin. It's not a crime when a person says he does his best not to sin because that's what he's expected, nay commanded to do.

“Your old man is dead, but you still live.

Paul said it this way.

Gal.2:20
I am crucified with Christ: (Dead to the Law, dead to Sin, dead to the Flesh) nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is what Paul was speaking of in Rom.7

He sums it all up in the last two verses.
Rom 7:24,25
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;
but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul was saying, I will ascent to the Law of God as Just and Good, acknowledging it's rightness.
But with the Flesh, (The inner man) (The Old man) (My human Nature) I will serve the Law of sin.

The motions of sin in my Flesh, (Nature)
Rom. 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.“ Jimz

 

[Al Touthentop]

The Parable of the Ten Virgins is only about the Jewish People of Jesus time, they were the ones he was speaking to and about, not Christians.

The Parable has nothing at all to do with Christians sinning.

He was talking about the last day when he comes and collects his followers, those who participated in the betrothal ceremony.

I guess he's only picking up Jews then eh?

 

[JIMINZ]

He was talking about the last day when he comes and collects his followers, those who participated in the betrothal ceremony.

I guess he's only picking up Jews then eh?

I guess Jesus was, His Ministry was to the Jews Only.

Mat 10:5,6
5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Later on Jesus said.

Mat. 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Remember 70 ad was a mere 37 years off, and you believe Jesus was talking about Christians of today.

Rom. 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom. 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[Al Touthentop]

I suppose we are at an impasse: you believe you and other Christians are sinless; and I believe that you are not. Good luck with that when you fall later today or tomorrow and have an impure thought or act in anger or pride, or any of the other thousand sins all humans commit constantly.

First off, your argument is simply to impugn people and that is an avoidance of the text we were discussing.

We're commanded not to sin.

1 John 1
5 Καὶ ἔστιν αὕτη ἡ ἀγγελία ἣν ἀκηκόαμεν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ καὶ ἀναγγέλλομεν ὑμῖν, ὅτι ὁ θεὸς φῶς ἐστιν καὶ σκοτία ἐν αὐτῷ οὐκ ἔστιν οὐδεμία.

Literally it reads this way:

5 And is this the message which we heard from him and we announce to you, that God light is and darkness in him not is, not even one.

Not even one. One sin takes us out of fellowship with God. So anyone who just whistles past the graveyard and thinks it is impossible not to sin or that sin doesn't matter is mistaken.

When we were washed of our sins when we began our Christian walk, we began in perfection. We had no sin. Not because we were perfect but because God made us perfect (if indeed we were washed).

And every time we sin, John says, we have to acknowledge and confess that sin. But we are commanded not to sin. A Christian he says, knows this and therefore does not walk in sin as some teachers in that time were teaching. They taught that it didn't matter. God's grace just covered it all and you didn't have to change anything.

So John's letter was to turn that teaching on its ear. And of course the very first thing we're commanded is to turn from sin. To repent. Change our minds. Decide we're not going to disobey God anymore.

If we sin, we confess our sin and he forgives us. At that point we are again sinless. Not because we're such great people but because God is so great. We're called not to sin though. And we have to be aware of everything we're doing. We have to know God's commandments and obey them. I can call myself sinless when I have no sin. Nothing wrong with acknowledging what God has done for me. But when I have sinned, I have to confess it and seek forgiveness. If I'm not paying attention and meditating on his commandments, I could fall into sin and think I'm just great with God. But I wouldn't be. Knowing and staying watchful and diligent is my responsibility as a Christian.

Now I never said I don't sin. So your claim that I believe I never sin is baseless. Your belief that I and other Christians are constantly sinning is also baseless. You have no evidence of this. It's rude of you to make such an assertion.