The western world hates PATRIARCHY and the church ignores it. By this are we sinning?

[SkyWriting]

Prior... you said prior to Roe V. Wade. You probably did not mean to say that... because it does not show that. But, okay, so a law is passed that legalizes killing the unborn. The numbers rise, and now have fallen. Likely, the numbers will drop even more as gay pride rules more and more. But abortion deaths are still happening... and the numbers crush deaths by war.

I am just failing to understand how our existing system is better than patriarchy. Where I see moral anarchy with a death toll that surpasses Hitler, Mao, and Stalin combined... some see liberation and free expression - maybe, that is liberation from the word of God and freedom to express sin.

Yet you call yourself an Atheist Capitalist, LOL. I am attempting to have what I consider a theological discussion about Biblical patriarchy with atheists and a female Anglican Priest in a providence where they ordinate women and bless same-sex marriages. I am definitely in the wrong place, LOL.

All governments on earth are put in place by God, so consider that Mars might be a good settlement for patriarchy.

 

[PloverWing]

And when men avoid their responsibility to be head of the household, faithful to his wife, priest to his family, then he is failing to follow the Greatest Commandment. He is failing to love God and neighbor as Christ directs. Instead, we commit adultery, watch inappropriate content, commit sodomy, get drunk, get fat, and allow our minds to become depraved along with the rest of the world... and we govern in that same manner - or FAIL to govern might be a better way to put it.

Wait, this has turned into a really sweeping claim -- "get drunk, get fat"? If men had more power over women, then we'd all drink less, exercise more, and eat our vegetables? I'm not following your logic here.

 

[Ohorseman]

Wait, this has turned into a really sweeping claim -- "get drunk, get fat"? If men had more power over women, then we'd all drink less, exercise more, and eat our vegetables? I'm not following your logic here.

That's because you don't understand Biblical patriarchy. Nor do I, completely. But I want to better understand it. It's not about power, it's about the God-given responsibilities that men have shunned in favor of sin. Yet, if my intended focus is to better understand the details of Biblical patriarchy... it is a tangent to discuss abortion numbers, the greatest command, misunderstandings about jokes, etc. I'm sure everyone here that has posted are nice people but are not the ones I should be talking to. It's like me trying to get workout tips from a nursing home, or something like that.

 

[SkyWriting]

I should also mention that all of my daughters have had loving men in their lives, all are now single moms, and no church has ever lifted a finger to find men to step up or step in and help them out.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's because you don't understand Biblical patriarchy. Nor do I, completely. But I want to better understand it. It's not about power, it's about the God-given responsibilities that men have shunned in favor of sin. Yet, if my intended focus is to better understand the details of Biblical patriarchy... it is a tangent to discuss abortion numbers, the greatest command, misunderstandings about jokes, etc. I'm sure everyone here that has posted are nice people but are not the ones I should be talking to. It's like me trying to get workout tips from a nursing home, or something like that.

I am completely at ease bringing in the greatest commandment of treating others equally as a response to any issue that is contrary to it. Men making decisions about women's health is right in line with your topic.

Patriarchy is actively becoming illegal in society, as God intends it to be.

(I'm not suggesting the person below would ever have a wife.)

 

[SkyWriting]

Still, Planned Parenthood has taken more lives than our military in all our wars combined. Still, abortion is deadlier than war. The numbers don't lie.

About 50% of all fertilized eggs are naturally aborted and discarded.
When we start making an effort to save them, we will have a case
for being Pro-Life.

 

[Thomas White]

That's because you don't understand Biblical patriarchy. Nor do I, completely. But I want to better understand it. It's not about power, it's about the God-given responsibilities that men have shunned in favor of sin. Yet, if my intended focus is to better understand the details of Biblical patriarchy... it is a tangent to discuss abortion numbers, the greatest command, misunderstandings about jokes, etc. I'm sure everyone here that has posted are nice people but are not the ones I should be talking to. It's like me trying to get workout tips from a nursing home, or something like that.

Your topic was moved to a Christians-only forum. Who should you be talking to if not us?

 

[The Liturgist]

The idea that abortion is the price of women's equality is one I find highly questionable. It sounds more like an excuse to keep depriving women of opportunity.

You know what makes me sad is the number of women in the IT industry peaked and has been in decline for decades. One of the first three high level programming languages, COBOL, was written by a woman. Some of the top engineers were women. You just don’t see female sysadmins and network engineers that much, and female programmers are becoming rare. It’s a giant step backwards, because in the late 20th century the IT industry benefitted so much from the contribution of women like Commodore Grace Hopper.

 

[SkyWriting]

Wait, this has turned into a really sweeping claim -- "get drunk, get fat"?

It's like when people try to overcome their own addictions and blame smokers for making them miserable.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Some think that patriarchy is about power. But I think it is about responsibility and it is the system directed in the Bible. But we have stepped away from patriarchy. Is that a sin and why does the church avoid this topic?

The God-given authority of a man, it has been misused and squandered away. Maybe the smoky ruins of the patriarchy are deserved considering that men have engaged in too many great and terrible wars and men have created bombs that can literally destroy the entire planet. Obviously, men cannot be trusted. The baby boomer generation became most aware of this post World War I and World War II, and especially considering the aftermath of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan. I think our corrupt and terrible power has rendered us afraid of what confronts us in the honest mirror. So we close our eyes and surrender to our sad self-demasculaton. Running the gauntlet we go. Rampant divorce. Immorality. Abortion. And is that great slaughter of the unborn any less brutal than all the great wars combined? No, it is an even greater sin as far as the numbers go. Here are some numbers that will blow your mind:

World War II (the Great War) - 70 to 85 million deaths
All wars in the 20th century - between 108 and 203 million deaths
Abortions worldwide since 1980 - 1.5 billion deaths

Looking at these numbers, that means that there have been between 7.38 and 13.88 times more deaths by abortion than by all wars in the 20th century. If such big numbers are too abstract for you, lets just look at some numbers specific to the United States.

All USA wars combined - 1.1 million deaths
Abortions in the USA since Roe v Wade - 62 million deaths
Planned Parenthood since 1970 has killed 8.9 million babies

But with abortions the blood runs down a timid sink rather than in the open streets as in war and nothing goes BOOM. To empower the women to take the lead we must be willing to slaughter the unborn. It is the only way, for abortion is that great equalizer among the sexes. And hooray for Gay Pride. After all, why not, we certainly deserve that for our cowardice and God forsaken ways. The number of women having babies out of wedlock is skyrocketing. The honored place of wife and mother is rapidly being reduced to "my baby's mama", and that's okay just don't interrupt my secret click and scroll on my unusual and delicious digital date. Of course the devil will take our women now! Adam did not protect Eve from the sly serpent. We are no wiser.

As men have shunned their God-given authority and responsibilities, a new power fills the expanding voids and takes over. What is this power? Liberalism. Consumerism. Socialism. Globalism.

Is there anything that we can do, or will only the Second Coming put things in order?

View attachment 295732

My art - The Second Coming

If we just limit patriarchy to those who believe and follow scripture, your numbers drastically change. Afterall, the secular world could care less about such things. Be blessed,

 

[Ohorseman]

I should also mention that all of my daughters have had loving men in their lives, all are now single moms, and no church has ever lifted a finger to find men to step up or step in and help them out.

I am so sorry, sister. You and your husband must be disappointed in your former son-in-laws.

 

[SkyWriting]

I am so sorry, sister. You and your husband must be disappointed in your former son-in-laws.

They are actually my wife's kids, but I have helped raise two of them and two grandkids.
Oddly the church is not overly supportive that I have stepped in to help my wife raise her kids. But women are more supportive and patriarchs are not. But at least you recognize that patriarchs are confused and at a loss for any legal preference in a just society.

Proverbs 21:15
When justice is done, it is a joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.

Amos 5:24
But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

Isaiah 1:17
Learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

World War II (the Great War) - 70 to 85 million deaths
All wars in the 20th century - between 108 and 203 million deaths
Abortions worldwide since 1980 - 1.5 billion deaths

All USA wars combined - 1.1 million deaths
Abortions in the USA since Roe v Wade - 62 million deaths
Planned Parenthood since 1970 has killed 8.9 million babies

Is there anything that we can do, or will only the Second Coming put things in order?

Only the second coming

 

[Ohorseman]

SkyWriting said: ↑
They are actually my wife's kids, but I have helped raise two of them and two grandkids. Oddly the church is not overly supportive that I have stepped in to help my wife raise her kids. But women are more supportive and patriarchs are not. But at least you recognize that patriarchs are confused and at a loss for any legal preference in a just society.

Sorry, brother. LOL. I don't know why I though you were female... maybe it is "the librarian" on your profile, and that bit about fertilized eggs. But, yep, her former son-in-laws were failures in this regard. It would seem that they did not put God first, they did not put their wives before themselves, they did not stay faithful to them, they did not step into the role of good husband and father. They illustrate my point, I guess. And, I will say this: accepting the responsibility of being the head of household and ALL that comes with it is fulfilling the Great Commandment. Men, like the failed son-in-laws there, are NOT obeying it and are so in sin.

 

[Ohorseman]

Only the second coming

So it would seem.

 

[bèlla]

But that's the problem: men don't "want to be in the driver's seat". Even though the Bible teaches that he should. That's the sin I'm talking about. Yes, it is incompetency. But more than that, it is sin.

And many shouldn’t. If you don’t have the aptitude and willingness to hone your skills and accept responsibility for the outcome you shouldn’t be in front.

The bible is full of poor leaders. Abraham and David were exceptions. Many were passive or reluctant to take a stand. Sound familiar?

~bella

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Since men have willingly given up their power the only thing that can change it is a reassertion of definite power. There is no will as of yet to do as such, therefore we can only but continue down this emasculated trajectory.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I should also mention that all of my daughters have had loving men in their lives, all are now single moms, and no church has ever lifted a finger to find men to step up or step in and help them out.

Did your daughters marry these men?

 

[SkyWriting]

Did your daughters marry these men?

I think you mean did the men marry my daughters?
We weren't invited if they did.

Did the men raise their own children to adulthood? No.

 

[KitKat1230]

I think much of why patriarchy has been failing is because, for the first time in thousands of years, women have countless rights and privileges. Women in the western world do not have to marry to get out of poverty or a bad family like they used to. And now that divorce is not only legal but has also been destigmatized, and women can work, if a woman's husband is treating her and/or their children like garbage, she can leave. Wives don't have to put up with bad husbands anymore.

While the world has in many ways gotten more outwardly depraved, I also think that much of that depravity has been there since the Fall. Even when divorce was unthinkable, adultery and abuse were always problems. There are countless stories about extramarital affairs in which royalty and nobility all over the world engaged, cuckoldry has been a common theme in literature since the Middle Ages (e.g. The Canterbury Tales, The Decameron, Lady Chatterley's Lover). And many of these stories poked fun at these themes.

IMHO, patriarchy is failing because male leadership has let women down. The fact that highly patriarchal groups such as the Christian Patriarchy Movement and some fundamentalist groups like Gothardism/ATI, Vision Forum, etc. have been getting in trouble for things like having that "Good Ole Boys Club" mentality that leads to the protection of sexual predators and the covering up of sexual abuse, blaming girls and women for sexual assault, blaming wives for their husbands' unfaithfulness and telling them that they should have had sex with them more often, etc.

Patriarchy is failing, largely, because most patriarchies have shown themselves to be deeply flawed systems that prioritize men over women, value sons over daughters, only allow girls and women minimal opportunities outside the home, and put most, if not all, of a girl's/woman's worth into her cooking and cleaning skills, her virginity, her appearance, her husband, her fertility, her children, etc. And girls and women have proven throughout time that they are capable of much more than just those things. Hearst Castle in California was designed by a woman (Julia Morgan), Wi-Fi and Bluetooth might not be here in the way we know them if it weren't for a woman (Hedy Lamarr), one of the writers who started the science fiction genre as we know it was a woman (Mary Shelley), and women have shown that they can lead and rule governments with the same wisdom and integrity as men (Queen Elizabeth II, Jacinda Ardern, etc.)

Patriarchy is failing because it has shown that women cannot trust men just because they have different parts than them and just because society says so. Biblical patriarchy is one of those things that I think is commonly misunderstood. I think that patriarchy might have had a time and place in society, but even in Biblical times, it had to be kept on a leash to avoid abuse of power. In authoritarian systems like Radical Patriarchism, Fascism, and Communism, if governments can abuse their power, they often will, which is why they cannot be given too much power. (Wow, I'm sure showing my libertarian leaning, aren't I?) I think that in marriage, submission is to be mutual. Men and women are to serve each other, because the Fall has cursed us to try to overrun each other.

Anyway, that's all I have to say for now. Feel free to correct me if I made any errors. I don't think that male leadership in itself is a problem, but I do think that the way patriarchy is often exercised is.