The Warped World of Incel Extremists

[TheWhat?]

Scapegoating? Upon whom? I haven't scapegoated anyone just yet.

And you throw in the bonus of "The Christus Victor" theory of atonement? That's a nice, partialist theory, but I think that it's only that, partial in its value. And it has about zero relevance for this thread (other than the goat you're apparently dragging along by a leash and into this thread ... )

There's no need to drag a goat along when that's basically what it's all about.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

There's no need to drag a goat along when that's basically what it's all about.

I have no goat in this fight. But I do have this...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/202007/the-incel-ideology

and this...

A Glimpse Inside Incel Ideology | Hstoday

and this...

http://essay.utwente.nl/82338/1/SaraKonutgan_BachelorThesis_Final Kopie.pdf

 

[TheWhat?]

I have no goat in this fight. But I do have this...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/202007/the-incel-ideology

and this...

A Glimpse Inside Incel Ideology | Hstoday

and this...

http://essay.utwente.nl/82338/1/SaraKonutgan_BachelorThesis_Final Kopie.pdf

That's fine. But this being a christian forum I think it's appropriate to interpret this from a christian point of view, wouldn't it?

 

[bèlla]

It's called scapegoating. Rene Girard has an interesting way of spelling it out in a way that fits right into the Christus Victor theory of atonement.

Who’s being scapegoated?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That's fine. But this being a christian forum I think it's appropriate to interpret this from a christian point of view, wouldn't it?

Which Christian view? I'll take my Christian point of view with a jot of Pascal, a dash of Kierkegaard, a heaping spoonful of Philosophical Hermeneutics and Critical Realism, with a side dish of Langdon Gilkey.

 

[Incendiary Minds]

Looks like that's exactly what you said...


"World culture?" Western Europeans don't get flummoxed about sex or nudity like Americans do in films, magazines, newspapers etc; . They DO object to graphic violence and American television is LOADED with graphically violent movies and television shows. Outdoors? Is it Jean's or yoga pants, or sleeveless blouses in warm weather that bothers a person? Do you want Women to be covered up from head to foot as is done in Moslem countries? What's next? Taking females of all ages off the streets and out of society confined only to indoor situations?
As for ISIS and even non terrorist groups, Afghanistan and Pakistan for example are NOTORIOUS for keeping females out of public and instead underage boys shop work, do the walking about that some Women would be doing. Tragically this makes these minors targets for sexual exploitation by older youths or Men. Afghanistan has an age old custom of training boys to dress, dance and sing like girls, subsequently, they are the entertainment for the Men's all male get to gethers whether they be casual right up to and including wedding after parties where the sexes do not celebrate together. Poor boys are sold by fathers as to bring income to the family.

As for Incels, they don't want prostitutes they only want what they want. The idea of the Nerd getting the hot chick is older than Revenge of the Nerds- the famous Peter Parker of Spider-Man fame starts off as a Nerd who gets superpowers and disdaining shy, intelligent, nice but not so knock out attractive girls goes instead after the hot chicks ie; Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane Watson, Felicia Hardy ( the villainess the Black Cat). Let me know when society toys with the idea of making Spider-Man UN popular!


They haven't been looking at "porn" but a "sexually lax" (whatever that means) "world culture" (whatever that means) and it's breeding resentment?

 

[Sparagmos]

So I got really curious about the "manosphere" a few years ago. Intel’s, PUA, redpillers, blackpillers. I spent a lot of time reading what they said to each other online.

The most common and relevant feature of incels that I saw was a lack of platonic relationships with women. In many cases, their entire understanding of women comes from online spaces, particularly porn, Instagram, dating sites, video games, and onlyfans. They often don’t have sisters. They don’t have girl or women friends. Their idea of an average-looking woman is completely skewed by the fact that most of the women they see are performing for a camera in some way or another. They literally come into puberty desiring porn stars and IG influencers, not the girl in class or next door. Women are objects, they are shallow, they pretend to want you when they only want your money, they are vain.

When these guys start interacting with real girls at school, they assume they are the same. And the girls can tell they are being objectified, by this guy who doesn’t smile or play but just stares. Because when you are watching women on a screen, you don’t need to smile or make her feel comfortable, you don’t care about who she really is because you know she’s just faking anyway. She can’t see you, she is the object and you can just stare.

 

[TheWhat?]

Which Christian view? I'll take my Christian point of view with a jot of Pascal, a dash of Kierkegaard, a heaping spoonful of Philosophical Hermeneutics and Critical Realism, with a side dish of Langdon Gilkey.

So why the difficulty with connecting Hefner with incels? I mean, with all of that knowledge I would think you'd make a cogent argument. Unless it really was all about social manipulation, which is basically the basis of my arguments about a culture bent toward consuming its own.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So why the difficulty with connecting Hefner with incels? I mean, with all of that knowledge I would think you'd make a cogent argument. Unless it really was all about social manipulation, which is basically the basis of my arguments about a culture bent toward consuming its own.

You want an argument for this? Do mean like this one?

[ article link] SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Tranchese, A., & Sugiura, L. (2021). “I Don’t Hate All Women, Just Those Stuck-Up ______”: How Incels and Mainstream Pornography Speak the Same Extreme Language of Misogyny. Violence against women, 1077801221996453.

 

[bèlla]

@Sparagmos

If you scratch beneath the surface there’s usually mommy problems. Their disjointed ideas about the opposite sex were developed at home. The Internet nurtured the seed and increased it.

I don’t recall many speaking highly of their mothers or recollecting fond memories either. They view ‘females’ as objects for sex, breeding, and domesticity. You don’t hear them extolling love either. The vast majority are damaged.

They use feminism as a scapegoat for their failures and ineptitude. And if that doesn’t work they blame women or the media. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept.

 

[TheWhat?]

You want an argument for this? Do mean like this one?

[ article link] SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Tranchese, A., & Sugiura, L. (2021). “I Don’t Hate All Women, Just Those Stuck-Up ______”: How Incels and Mainstream Pornography Speak the Same Extreme Language of Misogyny. Violence against women, 1077801221996453.

Not the strongest argument. I've heard a lot worse. I was hoping for something that made sense from a christian/theological pov, but I'm done. There's a point where manipulative secular bull crosses a line that hurts christians and goes way too far and I think this is one of them. It's not easy to watch it happen unhindered when you know what it leads to, but there's a time to check out.

 

[Sparagmos]

@Sparagmos

If you scratch beneath the surface there’s usually mommy problems. Their disjointed ideas about the opposite sex were developed at home. The Internet nurtured the seed and increased it.

I don’t recall many speaking highly of their mothers or recollecting fond memories either. They view ‘females’ as objects for sex, breeding, and domesticity. You don’t hear them extolling love either. The vast majority are damaged.

They use feminism as a scapegoat for their failures and ineptitude. And if that doesn’t work they blame women or the media. Personal responsibility is a foreign concept.

I agree, at least it’s what I’ve always suspected (mommy problems.). And it’s so sad how little they believe in love.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Not the strongest argument. I've heard a lot worse. I was hoping for something that made from a christian/theological pov, but I'm done. There's a point where manipulative secular bull crosses a line that hurts christians and goes way too far and I think this is one of them. It's not easy to watch it happen unhindered when you know what it leads to, but there's a time to check out.

I still don't know what you're getting at by assigning whatever it is you "think" I've thus far said to the category of manipulative secular bull.

As far as I'm concerned, you've bailed out before we've even begun. But, that's fine I guess since I'm not interested in having some kind of long-term back and forth jabbing over an obviously ornery topic. Besides, it should be enough for us to read 1 Corinthians 6:18 in Greek and take a hint ----

1 Corinthians 6:18 Parallel Greek Texts

1 Corinthians 6:18 Greek Text Analysis

 

[TheWhat?]

I still don't know what you're getting at by assigning whatever it is you "think" I've thus far said to the category of manipulative secular bull.

As far as I'm concerned, you've bailed out before we've even begun. But, that's fine I guess since I'm not interested in having some kind of long-term back and forth jabbing over an obviously ornery topic. Besides, it should be enough for us to read 1 Corinthians 6:18 in Greek and take a hint ----

1 Corinthians 6:18 Parallel Greek Texts

I'll see your reference and raise with John 17:15, considering that there are many christians who are celibate, even identifying as incel in this thread.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It may surprise you to know that I find this post of yours to be an acceptable summarization of some of the confluences that likely influence the development of an 'Incel' state of mind. But like a lot of social and psychological problems, there's more to this problem in each individual personal situation than just these factors alone. And from a Christian point of view, there's a few more at least.

Hey thanks...

I don't want my guesses to sound like I think they apply to every incel or any of them. They're just guesses based on things I've read during past incidents. I agree that each case probably has its own unique elements.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

You need a combination of God and truth serums. Until they understand the behavior is wrong you can't influence them. They can't justify the lack through wrong actions. There has to be deep conviction and repentance.

Until they have an influence to show them that their behavior and thoughts are wrong, they will never understand that it is wrong.

 

[bèlla]

I agree, at least it’s what I’ve always suspected (mommy problems.). And it’s so sad how little they believe in love.

They’re incapable of love. That’s why dehumanizing is easy. They mask their brokenness with arrogance and name calling. Shame is a common tactic to counteract their lack.

For all their bluster they aren’t getting the cream of the crop. You have to be wrecked to want a guy like that. Better options exist. He plays in the sandbox that validates his self-importance. He can’t relate to men who don’t need the same.

 

[bèlla]

Until they have an influence to show them that their behavior and thoughts are wrong, they will never understand that it is wrong.

They need a doctor. There are deep-seeded issues that contributed to the person they’ve become. Well beyond a woman’s rejection.

I’ve interacted with men who don’t understand no means no. They continue to pursue their own agenda against the other’s protests. They have no respect for boundaries. Their desires are foremost.

You can’t behave that way without consequences. Influences or not, they’ll pay a price.

 

[RDKirk]

"incel" is short for "involuntarily celibate"

It's an inflammatory and derogatory label.

But it's their own label for themselves.

 

[RDKirk]

... somewhere, I've heard this story before.

Oh, yeah. I remember now. It seems to reflect something along the lines of why Hugh Hefner started his Playboy magazine empire, albeit this incel philosophy is an obviously much more crass (and violent) form and measure of hedonistic "reflux." ........ Very interesting!

Thanks for the info, Bèlla!

So? My first wife cheated on me and left me with a 9-month-old baby. I've been married to my second wife for 38 years. My first wife cheated on two more husbands after me, which my son (that baby) eventually investigated on his own when he was in his thirties.