The universe with no need of God

[rjs330]

It is important, if you care about being justified and rational in your beliefs.
Because unfalsifiable models are infinite in number, and indistinguishable from pure fantasy.




If you don't care about rational justification for believing it.



Physicists and chemists work towards answering such questions.
And they follow the evidence, not a bronze age book.

If all you believe in is science and the evidence of science then you are too,narrow in your thinking. Evidence should lead you somewhere. Its should not just tell you what is. It is a closed heart and a closed mind that refuses to go past what science reveals as a process or understanding of how something works. You see the tree but miss the forest.

More importantly you miss the relationship. You miss the relationship,of the one who created this world for us to discover to show us his glory. Faith is the substance of things,hoped for the evidence of things not yet seen. You are a,human being who has a much larger capacity than just understanding how the,world,works from a scientific level. Yet you don't stretch that capacity or open yourself up to be more than what you are at present. Trust in the lord,with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your crooked paths straight.

Your understanding is too narrow. Acknowledge him and the world and the universe opens up and you gain a,greater understanding of what is. The discoveries will,mean so,much,more.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If all you believe in is science and the evidence of science then you are too,narrow in your thinking.

Science is not something I "believe" in.
It rather is simply a method that I recognise as the best tool we currently have to unravel the mysteries of reality and learn about the universe and all it contains.

And this is not a faith-based statement. This is rather an evidence based statement. It is based on science's continued efficiency at providing succesfull results.

If someone comes along with a method with even better results, a science 2.0 if you wish, I'll happily embrace it.

Evidence should lead you somewhere. Its should not just tell you what is. It is a closed heart and a closed mind that refuses to go past what science reveals as a process or understanding of how something works. You see the tree but miss the forest.

My blood pump and my emotions are irrelevant to what is true or false, likely or unlikely, possible or plausible.

More importantly you miss the relationship. You miss the relationship,of the one who created this world for us to discover to show us his glory. Faith is the substance of things,hoped for the evidence of things not yet seen.
You are a,human being who has a much larger capacity than just understanding how the,world,works from a scientific level. Yet you don't stretch that capacity or open yourself up to be more than what you are at present. Trust in the lord,with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your crooked paths straight.

Your understanding is too narrow. Acknowledge him and the world and the universe opens up and you gain a,greater understanding of what is. The discoveries will,mean so,much,more.

If all you have is more religious preaching, then this conversation will end pretty fast.

 

[anonymous person]

The answer is right there in the very post you are quoting.....

Because unfalsifiable ideas are infinite in number and indistinguishable from pure fantasy.

But pointing out that there are an infinite number of unfalsifiable ideas does not prove a person is irrational in holding one. It just proves that they hold one of an infinite number of ideas.

Secondly you're wrong about the "indistinguishable from fantasy" part. Take the idea of the decay of protons. The idea that they decay is not falsifiable. You can't, in principle, falsify that for no matter how long you observe it, there remains the possibility that it could decay. But such an idea could hardly be said to be indistinguishable from fantasy. We can wholeheartedly agree that there are fantastic, unfalsifiable notions and beliefs espoused by the people of this world, but not all unfalsifiable ideas are indistinguishable from fantasy.

Thirdly, my view that God created the universe ex nihilo is falsifiable. All you would need to furnish would be data that falsified the belief. For example, evidence which shows the universe is eternal in the past and without a beginning.

 

[HitchSlap]

Thirdly, my view that God created the universe ex nihilo is falsifiable. All you would need to furnish would be data that falsified the belief. For example, evidence which shows the universe is eternal in the past and without a beginning.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

 

[rjs330]

Science is not something I "believe" in.
It rather is simply a method that I recognise as the best tool we currently have to unravel the mysteries of reality and learn about the universe and all it contains.

And this is not a faith-based statement. This is rather an evidence based statement. It is based on science's continued efficiency at providing succesfull results.

If someone comes along with a method with even better results, a science 2.0 if you wish, I'll happily embrace it.




My blood pump and my emotions are irrelevant to what is true or false, likely or unlikely, possible or plausible.



If all you have is more religious preaching, then this conversation will end pretty fast.

But evidence of,what? Of what is.

Science is great at providing information. But that's all it provides. It still doesn't provide an answer for the complexities Of the universe and how and why it all,works so well. Everything is in place to allow intelligent life to exist here. The complexities of how that all came to bare and how it all exists and continues to exist is unanswered.

 

[miknik5]

Matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Are we supposed to let GOD know this?

Because I think HE said that once again HE will shake both the heavens and the earth to signify just that

 

[HitchSlap]

Are we supposed to let GOD know this?

Because I think HE said that once again HE will shake both the heavens and the earth to signify just that

I have no reason to believe this.

 

[rjs330]

I have no reason to believe this.

You will someday. Maybe not until the afterlife. But you will eventually.

 

[HitchSlap]

You will someday. Maybe not until the afterlife. But you will eventually.

There's no reason to believe this.

 

[miknik5]

There's no reason to believe this.

Then why are you on a Christian forum if to you there is no reason to believe THE TRUTH

 

[Eudaimonist]

Then why are you on a Christian forum if to you there is no reason to believe THE TRUTH

Socratic questioning and discussion. THE TRUTH isn't necessarily what you think. Discovering justified truths is better than simply assuming what is true.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[miknik5]

Socratic questioning and discussion. THE TRUTH isn't necessarily what you think. Discovering justified truths is better than simply assuming what is true.


eudaimonia,

Mark

That TRUTH is THE TRUTH that justifies

 

[miknik5]

And you are right it isn't what we think. TRUTH remains the TRUTH...regardless

 

[rjs330]

There's no reason to believe this.

I didn't say you needed to. Someday you will discover you should have.

 

[HitchSlap]

And you are right it isn't what we think. TRUTH remains the TRUTH...regardless

Yes, reality is that thing that doesn't go away when you close your eyes.

 

[HitchSlap]

I didn't say you needed to. Someday you will discover you should have.

I'll try to be clear as I can.
There is no basis in reality to believe what you're asserting.

 

[food4thought]

3. God was not assigned these properties by someone else.

Your argument breaks down at this errant statement with regard to a Being that does not inhabit space-time, and is not subject to causality (as you noted about pre-T-0), therefore whatever properties God has He has always had, and to say that they were assigned is absurd.

 

[miknik5]

Yes, reality is that thing that doesn't go away when you close your eyes.

Lol......okaay

Thank you?

 

[miknik5]

The same holds true of GOD

 

[rjs330]

I'll try to be clear as I can.
There is no basis in reality to believe what you're asserting.

It doesn't matter at all what you think. Because there is basis in reality. Its called the universe. God is seen in the creation he made. Just because one refused to see it doesn't make it any less true. This reality you live in is short, your reality is extremely limited and the fact that you only look at the limited short reality you live in is in itself limiting.

And in the end you will have no excuse when you stand before God.