The Unforgiveable Sin !

[1whirlwind]

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There is a sin that will not be forgiven. It isn’t murder for even though murder isn’t forgiven in this life time…it may be in the next [1 John 3:15]. It will be decided there. But, there is one sin that will never receive forgiveness in this or the next life. What is that sin?

Matthew 12:30-32 He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
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What is “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?” How does someone “speaketh against the Holy Ghost?”

Blasphemy is...."slander, detraction, speech injurious, to another's good name...impious and reproachful speech injurious to divine majesty....railing, evil speaking."
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This unforgiveable sin is all tied into the…last days. When asked by His disciples about the sign of those days Jesus replied....

Mark 13:7-11 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them. And the gospel must first be published among all nations. But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
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This same message is given here....

Luke 21:14-20 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
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It is also written in another place in Luke...

Luke 12:8-12 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess Me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
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To "denieth Me" means to....refuse, not accept Him...or...to put it another way, as He is the Holy Spirit it would be to blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit. So, in asking...what is the unforgiveable sin....to me it means;

1. To premeditate what you are going to say and not allow Him to lead you, to speak through you.
2. To deny Him, the Holy Spirit, and not allow Him to speak through you.
3. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit by not allowing Him to speak through you.
4. To blaspheme, speak ill of, those allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through them.
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The sin is two-fold. To blaspheme Him by refusing to speak what you have been shown and/or to blaspheme Him by denying that He speaks through others.



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[NightHawkeye]

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There is a sin that will not be forgiven.

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The sin is two-fold. To blaspheme Him by refusing to speak what you have been shown and/or to blaspheme Him by denying that He speaks through others.

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Whirlwind, your characterization of the sin seems a bit extreme ...

... although I agree in some measure.


Consider the words "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." There are other instances in scripture where ignorance is similarly described as forgiveable.

Those who know better seem to be held to a higher standard though, as apparently was Judas Iscariot. Was Peter? Where the line is I certainly do not know (not sure I want to know for that matter). Personally, I suspect that anyone concerned about toeing that line is in a precarious position.

Just speak truthfully, as honestly best you can ... that's all any of us can do.

You know, kinda like Leon Panetta did when describing the 25 minute blackout of the bin Laden take-down which blanketed the time the infamous staged photo of Hillary and other White House staffers was taken. Inconvenient, that one ...


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[1whirlwind]

Whirlwind, your characterization of the sin seems a bit extreme ...

... although I agree in some measure.


Consider the words "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." There are other instances in scripture where ignorance is similarly described as forgiveable.

Those who know better seem to be held to a higher standard though, as apparently was Judas Iscariot. Was Peter? Where the line is I certainly do not know (not sure I want to know for that matter). Personally, I suspect that anyone concerned about toeing that line is in a precarious position.

Those who don't have truth are not able to commit this sin. It is only those that do and deny Him. It is only applicable to certain people and only in the last days, when being "delivered up."

Just speak truthfully, as honestly best you can ... that's all any of us can do.

You know, kinda like Leon Panetta did when describing the 25 minute blackout of the bin Laden take-down which blanketed the time the infamous staged photo of Hillary and other White House staffers was taken. Inconvenient, that one ...


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You'll have to go into detail about that one...I haven't paid any attention to the whole thing. I was just very excited about Bin Laden's death, was very happy about our Seals doing such a wonderful job, getting out of there safely and....seeing young folks celebrate. It was good to see that they cared.

There have been so many stories since then on what happened when that I just tuned out. You mean the whole Clinton/Obama thing was staged?



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[Gnarwhal]

So, are you insinuating that if we question someone who has something to say that they claim is from the Holy Spirit then we're doomed?

 

[NightHawkeye]

You'll have to go into detail about that one...I haven't paid any attention to the whole thing.

A staged photo made the front pages of the papers last week which purported to show administration officials watching the Osama bin Laden take-down live, in real time. Much speculation was made of Hillary's facial expression which seemed morose, IMHO. The critique by political pundits of Hillary's expression, elicited a response from Hillary that she was simply suffering from allergies.

That would have been the end of it except that after a day or two, Leon Panetta publicly stated that the video feed had been lost during the take-down and the administration officials had only a blank screen to view. Pretty amazing that he would expose the photo-op rouse perpetuated by the administration. Don't know much more about it than that, other than hearing some rumors that Panetta has contradicted Obama administration officials repeatedly in the past week regarding details of the take-down.

So, is Panetta telling the truth? Or are all the others telling the truth?

My guess is that Panetta is telling the truth ... on the surface, that seems encouraging ... not sure anyone's contradicting Panetta after he speaks ...

I was just very excited about Bin Laden's death, was very happy about our Seals doing such a wonderful job, getting out of there safely and....seeing young folks celebrate. It was good to see that they cared.

Personally, I see little cause for celebration ... don't see that it changes much ... didn't celebrate the "highway of death" at the end of the Gulf War either ... or Sadam's death. Each tragic in its own ways for a variety of reasons.

There have been so many stories since then on what happened when that I just tuned out. You mean the whole Clinton/Obama thing was staged?

LOL. Kinda hard to say how much ... the photo op for the take-down was just a particularly blatant example when those self-serving politicians got caught in a "little" (... sigh ...) lie.


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[1whirlwind]

So, are you insinuating that if we question someone who has something to say that they claim is from the Holy Spirit then we're doomed?

No.



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[NightHawkeye]

No.



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LOL

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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[1whirlwind]

LOL

Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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Then...instead of "no" I should have written "nay, nay?"


Sorry...couldn't resist that. Your point is well taken. It was a cranky reply and I apologize.



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[1whirlwind]

So, are you insinuating that if we question someone who has something to say that they claim is from the Holy Spirit then we're doomed?

Hi Maverick....sorry, I gave you a snippy answer before.

No, we should question all we hear and "search the Scriptures" for truth. Those that can commit the unforgiveable sin are certain ones, during a certain time. They are those that are "delivered up for testimony."



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[NightHawkeye]

The sin is two-fold. To blaspheme Him by refusing to speak what you have been shown and/or to blaspheme Him by denying that He speaks through others.


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Conscience is a remarkable gift ... which some carelessly throw away ... seemingly not realizing its value.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
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The flip side is that torment comes from not listening to that inner voice. Recently, I was troubled for hours after saying something in anger. Although truthful, my remarks were unnecessary and there were lessons I needed to learn ...

I cringe when I think about those in politics who seemingly lie on a constant basis ... have their consciences been "seared with a hot iron"?

Perhaps also pertinent to the thread ...

1 John 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.


Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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[NumberOneSon]

You know, kinda like Leon Panetta did when describing the 25 minute blackout of the bin Laden take-down which blanketed the time the infamous staged photo of Hillary and other White House staffers was taken. Inconvenient, that one ...

I thought it's been reported that the raid took 40 minutes? So Panetta could be correct about the blackout, and the photos could have been snapped during the 15 minutes when there wasn't a black out. I think that's pretty reasonable.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[NightHawkeye]

I thought it's been reported that the raid took 40 minutes? So Panetta could be correct about the blackout, and the photos could have been snapped during the 15 minutes when there wasn't a black out. I think that's pretty reasonable.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

LOL.


There are really only two ways one can look at this, Acts. Either way, the administration guys are lying about it ...

According to Panetta, the feed went black as the team went into the compound ... and never came back live. Panetta further stated that no one knew what had happened until the code word was received over radio.

Video of Panetta on PBS, here: RealClearPolitics - Video - Panetta: Video Blackout Of 20-25 Minutes Occurred During Operation


And for anyone who hasn't seen the infamous picture purported to show Obama and staffers watching the take-down. From Ron Paul's website, a more libertarian take on the events ... Video destroyed? Panetta admits video blackout during raid for '25 MINUTES'...-...


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[freezerman2000]

Isn't refusal to acknowledge the existence of God,and the refusal to accept the Spirit the blasphemy?
THAT to me is the ONLY thing that will ultimately keep one from seeing the Glory of God.

 

[makeupgirl]

Those who don't have truth are not able to commit this sin. It is only those that do and deny Him. It is only applicable to certain people and only in the last days, when being "delivered up."


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I don't understand this. If the body of Christ have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I don't think we'll be able to commit the unforgivable sin. I can understand if the person doesn't have a relationship with Christ but if we're in Christ, you're not going to want to deny him or to blaspheme him.

 

[1whirlwind]

I don't understand this. If the body of Christ have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I don't think we'll be able to commit the unforgivable sin. I can understand if the person doesn't have a relationship with Christ but if we're in Christ, you're not going to want to deny him or to blaspheme him.

An example of denial would be Peter. Called, chosen by name, walked with the Lord, was taught by the Lord, saw the miracles as they happened. He vowed he would never deny Him and....a few hours later he denied Christ three times. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

From the quotes in the OP to blaspheme the Spirit is to not allow Him to speak through you. To me this means that as you study and are given revelations then you MUST speak those reveleations to others. That is allowing Him to speak through you.

Again, from the quotes...it seems that this happens only in the last days, a certain time when some will be "delivered up." Does that mean literally taken to stand before others or is it as we are now doing....speaking on forums?


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[1whirlwind]

Isn't refusal to acknowledge the existence of God,and the refusal to accept the Spirit the blasphemy?
THAT to me is the ONLY thing that will ultimately keep one from seeing the Glory of God.

I don't think so. My understanding is that unbelievers will be taught during the millennium, as well as those that are misled. I see the sin being spoken of here as very different in that it can only be committed by believers, by those He calls friend, those that are His disciples....that is us. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with being deceived as many shall be but rather is not standing for Him before others (being afraid perhaps) and/or speaking what we want to say...our thoughts...instead of what the Spirit teaches us in that "same hour."


Luke 12:8-12 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess Me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.




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[NumberOneSon]

There are really only two ways one can look at this, Acts.

No, there are actually a number of ways we can look at this, one of which I already expressed in my last post. In my opinion, you’re view seems to be based on the assumption that we know exactly what the security team was viewing at the time the photo was taken….and quite simply, we don’t.

Either way, the administration guys are lying about it ...

In order for the "administration guys" to be lying they would have had to claim at first that the photos were of the president and the national security team watching live-feed of the soldiers going into the compound and shooting things up during the 25 minute-period we later found out was blacked out. Has the administration given an official statement relating to the nature and timing of the photos? If so, then you can conclude that they lied; if not, then your accusation is based on an assumption, not misstatements made by the administration.

There According to Panetta, the feed went black as the team went into the compound ... and never came back live. Panetta further stated that no one knew what had happened until the code word was received over radio.

Ok, but at the beginning of that clip Panetta was asked if Obama saw any “real-time action going on”, and he responded by saying, “I think they were viewing some of the real-time aspects of this as well, in terms the intelligence we were getting.”

I just think it’s a mistake to assume to know what the pictures are depicting since, as far as I know, the administration has not made any specific statements about the nature of the photos .

And for anyone who hasn't seen the infamous picture purported to show Obama and staffers watching the take-down. From Ron Paul's website, a more libertarian take on the events ... Video destroyed? Panetta admits video blackout during raid for '25 MINUTES'...-...

But who exactly is "purporting" that the picture is showing Obama and staffers watching the takedown; is it "administration guys" or the media? If it's the media, then you can't really accuse the administration of lying about it, right?

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[NightHawkeye]

But who exactly is "purporting" that the picture is showing Obama and staffers watching the takedown; is it "administration guys" or the media?

LOL. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the administration and the media. So, maybe if we just look at facts:

1) A photo of Obama and top administration officials in "situation room".

2) Caption mentioned video feed and updates during the raid.

I suppose any number of conclusions could be drawn. People are good at that ... and politicians are sometimes good at helping them come to those conclusions.

If it's the media, then you can't really accuse the administration of lying about it, right?

In Christ,

Acts6:5

It's kinda hard sometimes to distinguish between the media and the administration ... if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ... but, hey, maybe that's just me.


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[NumberOneSon]

LOL. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the administration and the media.

Maybe as far as loyalties go, but we should not confuse loyalty to an administration with being an actual member of an administration, yes? One may roll their eyes over the tingles Chris Matthews gets over Obama’s election, but that’s not the same as Matthews being a member of the Obama administration. Therefore, if Matthews (hypothetically) were to suggest that the situation room photos were showing Obama and his staff watching a live feed of Bin Laden’s takedown, it cannot be said that an “administration guy” is suggesting it.

Since you stated that “administration guys”, not administration fanboys, made the claim about the photos, then would you divulge the names of the men or women in the administration and where their statements about the photos can be read?

So, maybe if we just look at facts:

Certainly.

1) A photo of Obama and top administration officials in "situation room".

Correct. At what point the picture was taken during the operation, we do not know, and what Obama and his team were looking at, again, we do not know. Anything else is complete speculation on our part, and at this point I am unaware that the Obama administration has divulged specifics concerning the timing and nature of the photos other than to say they were reacting to an “update”. And if it was indeed an update, wouldn’t that discount the notion that the team was watching a live video feed?

2) Caption mentioned video feed and updates during the raid.

The caption I’ve seen from the White House photo posted on Flickr states that Obama and his team “receive an update on the mission against Osama bin Laden in the Situation Room of the White House, Sunday, May 1, 2011, in Washington”. It can been viewed here P050111PS-0210 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! . There’s no mention of “video feed”, it just says “an update”. The nature of the update (whether audio, video, real-time, delayed, etc.) is not divulged. The picture could have been snapped at any point during the 40-minute raid and could very easily have pertained to an update not involving video or anything else involved in the 20-minute video blackout . As Panetta said, Obama may have been getting “real-time aspects” in terms of intelligence, although real-time video of the raid itself was unavailable for those 20 minutes.

I suppose any number of conclusions could be drawn.

Glad you see it that way.

People are good at that ... and politicians are sometimes good at helping them come to those conclusions.

Sometimes, yes.

It's kinda hard sometimes to distinguish between the media and the administration ... if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ... but, hey, maybe that's just me.

I guess it depends on how you were defining “administration guys”; were you including members of the media who happen to like Obama, or were you referring to members of the Obama administration?

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[NightHawkeye]

I guess it depends on how you were defining “administration guys”; were you including members of the media who happen to like Obama, or were you referring to members of the Obama administration?

I try to speak directly, Acts. It takes far fewer words that way.

I meant "administration guys" in the sense of all those "guys" in the picture. The ones who were clearly engaged in the important details of the Osama bin Laden mission.


It turns out that the crack investigative team at Forbes magazine solved the mystery of what was being viewed at the exact moment that "iconic" photo was taken:

Forbes solves White House Situation Room photo mystery - Andrea Spiegel - de.tech.ting - Forbes

Horrifying, isn't it?


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