The Torah.

[awitch]

He wouldn't reverse anything, because that is against His nature.

Really? Because I heard there's something called the "New Testament".

 

[AskTheFamily]

AWitch, you are right, Abrahamic Faiths have presented the worse way to approach religion, but is it what the holy books teach....?

You know we are worthless cons man, us the followers of Abrahamic faith in general, so why do you care about what we say about holy books, who gives a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] about what our damn self-attributing purity scholars say? You should go directly as much as possible to the reminder and it's designated guides, it's Navigating interpreters chosen by God.

But how will you know who that it is?

Well, you are a programmer, and you know you can't always from step 1 - to the end, you have to works backwards a little sometimes, sometimes, you work with what you got, and sometimes, you rebuild things and finesse them when they go wrong.

Finding the family of guidance of our time is essential. And more essential to that, is if you do find them, on how to approach them.

You don't even have to believe in God to do this. You don't have to prove God before searching for guidance and who, if God were to exist, would be his representatives.

Who would best explain the book and cure the diseases in the heart.

 

[AskTheFamily]

And if one doesn't know proofs for God, who best then God and his guides to provide that?

 

[salt-n-light]

Really? Because I heard there's something called the "New Testament".

New Testament is the continuation of the Old Testament, and it's uses a lot of OT reference to bring about understanding of the sermons and teachings of the NT.

Jesus said it himself, He wasn't there to reverse, do away, destroy any law but to fulfill it. But it hard to understand what is being fulfilled without understanding what was established already.

But give me an example of how you saw the NT reversing the laws

 

[Zoness]

AWitch, you are right, Abrahamic Faiths have presented the worse way to approach religion, but is it what the holy books teach....?

You know we are worthless cons man, us the followers of Abrahamic faith in general, so why do you care about what we say about holy books, who gives a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] about what our damn self-attributing purity scholars say? You should go directly as much as possible to the reminder and it's designated guides, it's Navigating interpreters chosen by God.

But how will you know who that it is?

Well, you are a programmer, and you know you can't always from step 1 - to the end, you have to works backwards a little sometimes, sometimes, you work with what you got, and sometimes, you rebuild things and finesse them when they go wrong.

Finding the family of guidance of our time is essential. And more essential to that, is if you do find them, on how to approach them.

You don't even have to believe in God to do this. You don't have to prove God before searching for guidance and who, if God were to exist, would be his representatives.

Who would best explain the book and cure the diseases in the heart.

If you're advocating for progressive revelation, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's just contradictory to what those faiths teach, with the exception of the Baha'i.

My faith goes by personal revelation and is progressive in the same way. It would not fit well with a static holy book where one is not allowed to challenge it.

Christians, Muslims etc can take this approach to their scriptures. I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all, but it's assuredly not mainstream thought and most certainly heterodox.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I'm not advocating anything but to sincerely seek the truth and give his chosen ones, if God were 1. To exist. 2. Provide guidance from him, a chance to speak to themselves as opposed to people claiming to represent them.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Christians, Muslims etc can take this approach to their scriptures. I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all, but it's assuredly not mainstream thought and most certainly heterodox.

You wait for us to come to the book properly, you maybe waiting for us till the cows come home. You should regardless of all religions and how they represent scriptures try to see if there is a underlying message through out the world and if there is decisive proofs for the path and religion as an abstract thing, while also seeking out who would be the concrete instances of the abstract name of God, being the living names of God.

 

[awitch]

AWitch, you are right, Abrahamic Faiths have presented the worse way to approach religion, but is it what the holy books teach....?

The believer can find whatever message they want to hear. It can all be about hope and redemption and humility, or it could be about how terrible gay people are for being gay.

But how will you know who that it is?

We can't know. When it comes to religious claims, Abrahamic religions and Pagan religions are all on the same, unconfirmable playing field.

Well, you are a programmer, and you know you can't always from step 1 - to the end, you have to works backwards a little sometimes, sometimes, you work with what you got, and sometimes, you rebuild things and finesse them when they go wrong.

And sometimes when the programming language is no longer sufficient for our needs, we abandon it and start over with a new one.

Finding the family of guidance of our time is essential. And more essential to that, is if you do find them, on how to approach them.

I think we all look for guidance sometimes. It's insistence that we only ever look in one particular place with one particular viewpoint that's the problem.[/quote]

 

[AskTheFamily]

An important question to reflect upon AWitch, is if there is possible way to know, how would we find out and approach this question.

I find again, the answer to all these question, though may seem circular, is to the ask the family of the reminder when we do not know.

And there families of the reminders through out the earth and they left legacies, but obviously we have to find the reminder of our time and it's chosen guides.


Sometimes better then "If God were to exist, how would I know him", is a question all humans, can work with.

That is how should religion be approached if God were to exist and have appointed guides, and provided an explanation of all things.

To merely consider the possibility, the shortcoming might not be God but ourselves, and on how we follow our desires and equate falsehood and truth, and don't sincerely search and reflect.

That is a healthy approach. Because if your religion is true, it needs this approach to find out it is true as well.

I can't rely on you to know what your Messengers and holy books teach neither can you rely on me to know what my Messengers and Holy books teach.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I think we all look for guidance sometimes. It's insistence that we only ever look in one particular place with one particular viewpoint that's the problem.[

With limited time we have, we have to eventually narrow down what we hold on to and rely on for enlightenment and where we look to grow in insight.

 

[AskTheFamily]

And we all know what you intend to do by asking this question.

Prove me wrong.

Death is the cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism.

Now, what do you intend to do with this answer?

Why don't you prove your view.

 

[awitch]

Sometimes better then "If God were to exist, how would I know him", is a question all humans, can work with.

That is how should religion be approached if God were to exist and have appointed guides, and provided an explanation of all things.

I can't say I disagree; that really is a great way to ask the question. That "if" is critical because it doesn't assume that god exists with a long list of very specific attributes that are absolutely correct and you shouldn't question it. That's exactly what I mean when I say my path is exploratory. I'm not starting with any preconceived ideas. I get some inspiration about what other people say, but I'm not committed to accepting them just because they said it. I can look at a religious idea and say, "Hey, that doesn't seem to coincide with the way the world works!", and I can freely reinterpret it or discard it entirely.

I can't rely on you to know what your Messengers and holy books teach neither can you rely on me to know what my Messengers and Holy books teach.

I agree.
So how can you say that any scripture beautifully iterates the truth?

 

[AskTheFamily]

[QUOTE="awitch, post: 72400539, member: 219621"
So how can you say that any scripture beautifully iterates the truth?[/QUOTE]

With a lot of reflection, and letting go of rebellion, it becomes easy to see the Torah (although not all of it currently is accurate), iterates the path of guidance and truth.

Thank you for asking the question.

I will quote some parts of it, as I explain, what truth it iterates. (the archetype of all true religions)

It doesn't even matter if Abraham is real or not, or Moses existed, or not, it still iterates the way to the truth and way to knowledge very well.

I will explain in detail. And when you realize there is a dark sorcery on it, it becomes obvious, the enemies of it are deceiving people regarding it, and there is few people who actually perceive what it says as in the clear majestic flow (although it does twists and turns against it's central theme and flow enough of it keeps at it which shows the truth).

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

To go to edge cases and miss the central argument which is iterated well, shows people go to holy books not in search of wisdom, but to argue.

Well , if "holy" books cannot bear close scrutiny and only seem wise and good if you gloss over the uncomfortable parts and apply a fuzzy lens, what good are they?

 

[AskTheFamily]

Well , if "holy" books cannot bear close scrutiny and only seem wise and good if you gloss over the uncomfortable parts and apply a fuzzy lens, what good are they?

Well, if they do provide guidance themselves on how to approach that, then they are good, if they don't, they are useless, but the truth is there is always essential foundations, you have to look at those first, before nitpicking edge cases.

 

[Robban]

Torah is in four levels.
Simple.
Hint.
Seek.
Secret/sod=esotoric, mystical, the meaning
that can only be known to those who have been told.
So it has been guarded

However, now we are nearer the end of this era,
it is time to spill the beans?

From the academy of Elihayu,
"the portals of wisdom above, (Torah)
and the fountains of wisdom below, (Science)
will be opened.
will converge.

As alluded to in the words,
"In the six hundreth year in the life of Noah,
the windows of heaven opened and all the fountains of the great depths burst forth."

This is what we see happening today,
so much advancement and information at a click of a button.

To conclude,
Tikkunei Zohar (Tikkun 6)

Elijah the prophet (the prophet to herald the final redemption from our present exile)
said to Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai (the primary
author of the Zohar,

"In the end of days, in the last generation,
this work of yours-Zohar-will be revealed below.
Many people will be sustained and nourished
by this work and on it,s account you will proclaim freedom in the land.
Redemption will come."

 

[Zoness]

Torah is in four levels.
Simple.
Hint.
Seek.
Secret/sod=esotoric, mystical, the meaning
that can only be known to those who have been told.
So it has been guarded

However, now we are nearer the end of this era,
it is time to spill the beans?

From the academy of Elihayu,
"the portals of wisdom above, (Torah)
and the fountains of wisdom below, (Science)
will be opened.
will converge.

As alluded to in the words,
"In the six hundreth year in the life of Noah,
the windows of heaven opened and all the fountains of the great depths burst forth."

This is what we see happening today,
so much advancement and information at a click of a button.

To conclude,
Tikkunei Zohar (Tikkun 6)

Elijah the prophet (the prophet to herald the final redemption from our present exile)
said to Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai (the primary
author of the Zohar,

"In the end of days, in the last generation,
this work of yours-Zohar-will be revealed below.
Many people will be sustained and nourished
by this work and on it,s account you will proclaim freedom in the land.
Redemption will come."

FWIW, I think that Judaism's approach to spirituality is more practical and matter of fact and I admire that for what it is.

 

[danny ski]

There's one thing that hasn't been said in this thread. Judaism has prophets, holy men(and ladies), a controversial narrative, etc. Just like any other religion.But. The bottom line of Judaism is the fact that the Torah was approved by all present in the desert. "All that Gd has spoken we will do and we will listen" - said the whole nation. The national revelation that occurred, reflected the times and attitudes. That was a very long time ago, admittedly, but if anyone bothered to take a closer look at the Jewish law and the application of the Torah to the society as a whole, the picture of a blood thirsty Gd of Abraham and Moses is clearly a false narrative. Take slavery. The Torah surely regulates the abhorrent practice- terrible! But, what is the message of the Torah re. slavery? Remember that you were once slaves yourselves. Does that really sound like an endorsement? Point being, there is no slavery among us, a rapist gets a hefty sentence, and even the courts 2000 years ago went out of their way to acquit and to prevent the imposition of the death penalty except for the most serious and obvious crimes. There's a lot more to the Torah than the cursory reading allows.

 

[cloudyday2]

I will quote some parts of it, as I explain, what truth it iterates. (the archetype of all true religions)

It doesn't even matter if Abraham is real or not, or Moses existed, or not, it still iterates the way to the truth and way to knowledge very well.

If you have time to give some examples, I'm curious. I haven't seen much value in the Torah other than as a sleep aid.

I did briefly believe that I found a model for a human (body, soul, will, etc.) in the Garden of Eden story. At that time I was mildly psychotic, and lots of things seemed significant, so I think that was the explanation for believing this.

 

[cloudyday2]

I find again, the answer to all these question, though may seem circular, is to the ask the family of the reminder when we do not know.

And there families of the reminders through out the earth and they left legacies, but obviously we have to find the reminder of our time and it's chosen guides.

I was curious if you could explain what you mean by "ask the family..."? That idea must be important, because you chose it for your account name.